Calling all BBC Guru's - Help with a 454

[Speedbumps_suk]

Hi all, I have looked all over but cant seem to find the answer to this...

I have two 454's, an old one 361959 (needs rebuilt) and a replacement 14015445. Im trying to swap them and Im running into a snag. The starter will not engage the flywheel. So I have two questions:
1. Do these two blocks use the same flywheel?

361959.....454.......73-90...2 or 4 bolt
and
14015445...454.......78-90...2 or 4 bolt

2. Just to make sure, the weights on the flywheel go towards the block right?

Thanks for any help you can provide.... I've switched to a mini starter now, and shimmed the hell out of it, still looks like the starter gear is slamming into the flywheel (like the flywheel is too big).

Help gang!!

[70cst]

Hey Speedbumps_suk ...

Here is a bump for you and ...

to the forums and from Ohio

[Speedbumps_suk]

Thanks!! Hoping someone on here can answer my question and help a brother out. Anyone?

[MARKDTN]

Flywheel size is not necessarily a BB vs: SB issue. You need a starter that matches the size flywheel that you have. All BB use a 168 tooth flywheel so you need a starter with the diagonal bolt pattern, not the straight across. The straight across pattern is for a 153 tooth flywheel. A SB can use either 153 tooth or 168 tooth.

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...hp?tid/171683/

[Speedbumps_suk]

OK good deal, thanks Mark! So I have the mini-starter which is sold by Lopers and supposed to be universal (SB and BB chevy). Anyone ever heard of having to use 4 or 5 shim kits to get this thing to make proper contact with the flexplate? Seems like a ton of shims to make this low enough to hit the teeth correctly. ??

[davepl]

Make sure your flexplate isn't on backwards. I'm going to wager it is, although I think the weights do go towards the car. More important though is that the "stands" that the bolts go through for the converter go towards the converter. Put another way, the little raised sections on the flexplate go towards the back of the car, not towards the engine.

If you get it backwards you'll have a monster of a time getting the starter to engage properly, and it'd take a lot of shims to even get there no doubt.

Plus, since the 454 is externally balanced, if you get it backwards the weights could wind up 180 degrees out. So even if you can make it work, don't, because your balance weights will be in the wrong place and it'll shake until it pounds a bearing out.

[Speedbumps_suk]

Great info "Dave" thank you. Ill double check it tonight. I am almost positive the weights are towards the block, which I think if Im reading this right, is correct. I had a hard time telling which way it went on for sure, so Ill admit I guessed based on wear marks. The teeth on the flex plate had wear on one edge of them, so I looked at that as the point where the starter was making contact with it, so I put the wear part of the teeth towards the motor vs. towards the back of the car. X fingers I have it right, hate to pull this back out again...sigh.

[MARKDTN]

Originally Posted by Speedbumps_suk

OK good deal, thanks Mark! So I have the mini-starter which is sold by Lopers and supposed to be universal (SB and BB chevy). Anyone ever heard of having to use 4 or 5 shim kits to get this thing to make proper contact with the flexplate? Seems like a ton of shims to make this low enough to hit the teeth correctly. ??

Your starter has the staggered pattern?

I am not aware of a 454 flexplate or flywheel that isn't 168 tooth. But with a 396 or 427 you could possibly use a small flexplate. The pattern on the crankshaft is the same for SB and BB. So even if the starter says both it has to have the diagonal bolt pattern to work on a 168 tooth unit.

[Speedbumps_suk]

Yes as I recall, the bolts are staggered. The one near the block mounts farter forward than the one away from the block. IS that correct?

[OJ1988]

Farther forward bolt is near block.

Sounds like you have a 153 tooth starter and a 168 flexplate.

Most mini starters I have used don't require any shims.

[Speedbumps_suk]

Originally Posted by OJ1988

Farther forward bolt is near block.

Sounds like you have a 153 tooth starter and a 168 flexplate.

Most mini starters I have used don't require any shims.

Yes, the farther forward bolt is nearest the block on mine. So, mini starters are supposed to work for both 153 and 168 flexplates... according to what came with mine anyway. I just dont get it. Some thing is seriously off on this assembly...

[OJ1988]

Depends.

Most aftermarket mini starters have 2 sets of bolt holes

give me a minute, I got 2 bbc's on stands now.

I'll get you some pics.

[OJ1988]

[OJ1988]

If your started has offset bolts it should work fine with a 168 tooth flexplate.

If it is straight bolt pattern with only one set of holes, it would be for a 153 flexplate.

[Speedbumps_suk]

Originally Posted by OJ1988

If your started has offset bolts it should work fine with a 168 tooth flexplate.

If it is straight bolt pattern with only one set of holes, it would be for a 153 flexplate.

Awesome, thanks for the pics...thats helpful. And looking at it now, I know mine does have the dual set of bolt holes, so it would be a straight across mount then. But Ill look and see if I have it on the wrong set, that would explain it hitting the flex plate then for sure. Moving it out to the other bolt holes would make sense... thank you, Ill try that tonight when I get home.

[OJ1988]

Great! Hope it solves your issue!