Need some help - struggling with finding a "new" old truck

[ih8vols]

Hopefully this is the right forum...

I've always wanted an old truck to work on and fix up over time. My son is now almost 6, and enjoys walking around at car shows with me, so hopefully it's something we can do together over time. I want something that I can drive on the weekends to get a load of dirt or something, and slowly fix up over time.

I did not grow up around cars. I've taught myself how to change oil, brakes, and other maintenance work. I've always wanted to learn the in's and out's of how a car works. So....i'm not in a position to get a truck. I want a shortbed Chevy probably between 1960 and 1985. I like the looks of the older ones, but the newer models in that range should have PS, PB, etc.

The problem I run into, is i find a truck i like, but then I get turned off due to what I **think** (which is probably wrong due to lack of experience) is a problem potential problem. Hopefully, it's ok if I list a few of the trucks I have my eye on right now and tell you the potential concerns I have. I'd like some opinions as to whether these concerns are legitimate if you don't mind. I'm ranking these in my order of preference.

Unfortunately, all of these are located in 3 different directions, so there's no way i can go see all three. What are your thoughts. Should I mark any(or all) off the list based on my concerns and/or price? All three have questions around the engine & tranny mileage. The worst possible thing for me is to buy something, and then 2 months down the road have to tell my wife the truck needs an engine and tranny.

1. 1967 C10 Sidestep - $2,500
   • Pros
   • Body looks to be in pretty good shape. Rust on the hood, and in passenger door panel
   • It is drivable, but needs a fuel pump
   • No overheating problems
   • Concerns
   • Engine was replaced a little over a year ago with a 87 or 88 model Goodwrench 350 along with a 350 turbo tranny - Does not know approximate mileage
   • Small transmission leak
   • needs fuel pump
2. 1981 Shortbed Chevy - $3,500
   
   • Pros
   • Body looks to be in great shape - no rust
   • New parts: New suspension, Steering, tires, and exhaust, aluminium heads, roller rockers, camshaft, valve covers and intake
   • Ready to drive
     
   • Concerns
   • Original engine. Odometer reads 30k. Owner doesn't know if thats 130k or 230k, etc
   
   
3. 1985 SW Fleetside - $3,500

[LIST][*]Pros

• Looks like all body work is completed. It's prime and ready for paint.
• rally wheels, new dash and trim
• ready to drive

[*]Concerns

• Engine and tranny was swapped out before the current owner bought it. He has no idea on mileage.

I know it's a lot of info. Really appreciate all the help!

[RIDE-RED 350r]

With the older vehicles and their odometers that reset to zero once 99,999 roles, it's nearly impossible to know the exact mileage as these vehicles get older and older.

The good news is, the older you get, the simpler things get relative to newer stuff.

I don't worry too much about mileage if the engine sounds good with no strange noises, knocks, ticks, etc, and the driveline functions properly, with no strange noises, vibrations, clunking, etc. Also check oil pressure.

A quick look under the hood can sometimes give you a hint on how well a person cares for the truck. How does it generally look? Is it fairly clean as far as grease, oil and crud? Is the wiring in a cobbled up, tangled and spliced mess? Or do things look neat and tidy? A look inside the cab can tell you a bit as well. If they treat it as a garbage can, you kind of know how they treat the rest of the truck.

A compression test can tell you a fair bit about the condition if the engine. The compression number you are looking for varies too much based on how the engine is built to throw out a rule of thumb type number. Main thing is that all 8 cylinders are close to each other. You may or may not wish to go to the trouble of an 8 cylinder compression check.. Use good judgement, assess how the engine runs and sounds and decide if a compression check is in order.

Also, before the seller starts it up, raise the hood, check the fluids, and feel for an engine that has been warmed up before you got there. This is another clue...

This may be heresy to some, but I have never been a fan of the old TH350 and TH400 autos. They have always felt "slushy" to me, I prefer an SM465 .. But that could have been more due to age/mileage of those trucks I drove with those trannys. Check trans fluid, nice and red, not dark, blackish in color or burnt smelling. Check for cross-contamination of fluids, IE: tranny fluid in coolant or vice/versa, coolant in oil or vice/versa. Engine oil that looks like chocolate milk is bad ju-ju.

I could go on and on..

I wouldn't worry about engine/tranny swaps if fluids all look good, everything runs and sounds good, etc. I would be suspect of non-functional gauges for whatever reason. I want to know the vitals of the engine. Not that the old gauges are particularly accurate, but they are better than nothing at all. If things appear to be cobbled together, they probably are.

That '67 doesn't sound too bad to me. Recent crate motor is a plus. Receipts to prove when it was done would be even better. Be cautious of claimed work/new components if there are no receipts to back the claims. I am not expert, but it would seem that the numbers on a crate motor would be searchable for proof of what it is and roughly how old.

As to the minor transmission leak, take a gander. Is it just a line leaking?? Pan gasket?? Tail shaft seal?? You should be able to determine the origin and address it depending on your abilities..

It sounds like alot to take in.. But when you get there looking at a prospective new toy it's really common sense. Just keep your head about you and don't get too head-over-heels about something you like and then overlook a potential problem that you might not want to deal with.

Good luck!

[RIDE-RED 350r]

You know what?? All 3 would be worth a look to me! LOL!

The '81 with all of the fresh parts would be tempting.

[SCOTI]

Avoid fully primered trucks that are "ready to paint". 99.9% of the time that's just a sales pitch. It's usually just cheap primer hiding problem areas....

[Titomars]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Avoid fully primered trucks that are "ready to paint". 99.9% of the time that's just a sales pitch. It's usually just cheap primer hiding problem areas....

X2 ..... I am no bodyman but I can "see" a lot and I have seen many prime jobs hiding more than I am willing to take on. My thinking is, if it's ready to paint then why doesn't the owner paint it and get so much more for the vehicle.

To me out of the three I would be looking at the 67 first. In my eyes it sounds like a good buy and aftermarket support is great for them.

[MalibuSSwagon]

I would seek out the most original truck you can find. Mostly because you know whats there and how old all the major mechanical parts are. Also I love going thru the process of mechanical restoration. I seek them out as original as possible (several of my old cars have been 1 owners) and you'd be surprised at price, I haven't paid top dollar for any of my vehicles. My truck actually came from the second owner, I got it for free running and driving because he bought a new truck and the wife wanted the old one gone ASAP. Got lucky on that one, was in good shape with no rust but needed a bit of mechanical work. I also have paperwork that verifies it had 87k miles when it came into my possession. So these trucks you are looking at, where the owner has slapped aluminum heads and stuff like that onto the engine but they don't really know anything about it, I'd steer clear. Just tells me they don't know what they are doing or they bought someone's project cheap and are now flipping it after doing some little fixes (or maybe nothing at all!)

But just remember, you are looking for a truck that is 30 years old at least. I always budget for the engine or something else to fail, you never know, its old. So do all the checks, coolant, oil, all that. If coolant is low there may be a leak, or something worse if it's oil-colored. Check transmission fluid, make sure it's red and transmission shifts smoothly. Basic stuff, if you aren't comfortable in your abilities in inspecting the truck, bring along a mechanic friend that you trust. No offense I just want you to get a deal youre happy with and to not get screwed over.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by MalibuSSwagon

I would seek out the most original truck you can find. Mostly because you know whats there and how old all the major mechanical parts are. Also I love going thru the process of mechanical restoration. I seek them out as original as possible (several of my old cars have been 1 owners) and you'd be surprised at price, I haven't paid top dollar for any of my vehicles. My truck actually came from the second owner, I got it for free running and driving because he bought a new truck and the wife wanted the old one gone ASAP. Got lucky on that one, was in good shape with no rust but needed a bit of mechanical work. I also have paperwork that verifies it had 87k miles when it came into my possession. So these trucks you are looking at, where the owner has slapped aluminum heads and stuff like that onto the engine but they don't really know anything about it, I'd steer clear. Just tells me they don't know what they are doing or they bought someone's project cheap and are now flipping it after doing some little fixes (or maybe nothing at all!)

But just remember, you are looking for a truck that is 30 years old at least. I always budget for the engine or something else to fail, you never know, its old. So do all the checks, coolant, oil, all that. If coolant is low there may be a leak, or something worse if it's oil-colored. Check transmission fluid, make sure it's red and transmission shifts smoothly. Basic stuff, if you aren't comfortable in your abilities in inspecting the truck, bring along a mechanic friend that you trust. No offense I just want you to get a deal youre happy with and to not get screwed over.

x2. A gear-head buddy along for the inspect is a good idea.

[greg64]

I think that you have to expect anything as old as our trucks to need work. So my best advice would be to make sure you have some funds set aside going in, to cover inevitable problems.

Another thing I would suggest is to keep the truck drive-able, like Gregski is doing. If you blow it apart into a million pieces, it's easy to lose interest or be overwhelmed by all that needs to be done.

Good luck!

[Keith Seymore]

Lots of good input in the responses thus far - all of it is good.

The only adjustment I would make is I wouldn't worry about a TH350 or TH400 trans: they are the standard by which all other auto transmissions are judged. A little freshening and a shift kit (if required) and they will last a lifetime.

Unless you prefer a stick shift (...like me! ).

K

[Keith Seymore]

Probably already been said, but just to re-iterate:

a) I wouldn't worry too much about the mileage on the engine/trans. These things are easily going 200-300,000 miles now. The era of a 100,000 life expectancy is past.

b) You are going to get way more "old car bang for the buck" with the '67 (especially a stepper), but the '81-'85 is essentially a modern vehicle wrapped in vintage sheetmetal, with PS/PB, front disc brakes and overdrive transmissions likely. My '87 is even fuel injected (first year ot TBI) to add to the deception.

K

[andrewmp6]

To me i would look for the body style that i like the most and find one rust free.I rather change out a engine or trans then do a ton of rust repairs.With anything old any mileage your told take with a grain of salt its probably not right.Any engine if taken care of it can run a lot longer then most think.As far as power options any of those can be added to anything if you want them.Power steering or power brakes you can buy a kit online and add it to older stuff no problem.

[Titomars]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Lots of good input in the responses thus far - all of it is good.

The only adjustment I would make is I wouldn't worry about a TH350 or TH400 trans: they are the standard by which all other auto transmissions are judged. A little freshening and a shift kit (if required) and they will last a lifetime.

Unless you prefer a stick shift (...like me! ).

K

Yeah,
I prefer a stick also, but finding an M22 or even and M21 to put behind my 454 is damn near impossible in my area.

[greg64]

Originally Posted by Titomars

Yeah,
I prefer a stick also, but finding an M22 or even and M21 to put behind my 454 is damn near impossible in my area.

I like stick too (I don't own any automatic vehicles). My 77 is using an SM465. I'm curious if you've ever had a M22/M21/m20 in a square body.

Of course, if you were to go new, the TKO would be pretty nice.

[Titomars]

Originally Posted by greg64

I like stick too (I don't own any automatic vehicles). My 77 is using an SM465. I'm curious if you've ever had a M22/M21/m20 in a square body.

Of course, if you were to go new, the TKO would be pretty nice.

No I have never had an M22 or M21 in a square. This is my first square actually. I have had them in various 60's and 70's GM A bodies I have owned in the distant past. I also had friends with M21's in various older GM P/U's that I have driven.
TKO's would be sweet but are bit over my financial ability. With a 3,300 rpm cruise at 65 I sure could use an O/D too.

[Dead Parrot]

Before buying a truck, check the following:
What are the emission/inspection rules in your state? Is there a age/year cutoff? It sucks to have a vehicle that misses the cut off by one year.
How does your insurance company handle older vehicles?
How does your state handle registration on older vehicles?

You need to consider that everything on a vehicle in the 30+ year old range to be at end of life until you have made sure it isn't. Anything plastic or rubber is suspect. The current owner may not know what previous owners have done or neglected.

Parts availability is going to be spotty. Be prepared to hunt through salvage yards and improvise. Starter brushes for my 75 350 were $4 several local parts places. The temp sensor for the Thermac system was out of stock everywhere when I needed one, even on the Internet. Found a couple at the local Pull-a-Part on non-pickup GM vehicles.