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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 56
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Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
I just installed new GMPP 350/290hp in my stock 69 C20 daily driver. Right now it has the stock manifold to single pipe/muffler exhaust. GMPP installation specs say best exhaust for engine is long tube headers with 1 3/4" primary & 3" collector to 2 1/2" pipe w/H pipe. My goal like most is to make it sound nice & improve performance but not spend a lot. Unfortunately, I know little about exhaust systems.
Here are my concerns/questions: 1. Most headers available are 1 1/2" tube. A Super Chevy article indicated a 1 5/8" tube is best & can produce up to 16 hp but larger tubes drain low end torque. GMPP says 1 3/4" is best. Does the 1/4" or 1/8" make much difference? 2. A lot of posts on this board indicate a strong preference for stock manifold over problems w/headers. Will I notice the increase in hp w/headers or be wasting my money? 3. Several posts indicate a preference for X pipes over H pipes for sound quality but some indicate this may reduce low end torque by reducing back pressure. Which is best? 4. Which mufflers? Are Magnaflo & Flowmaster worth the price or is there a quality lower cost option? |
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#2 |
Eat, Sleep, Drive a Chevy
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the town of the cow, Texas
Posts: 1,152
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
I wouldn't get too hung up over a SC article, you wont notice 16 hp.
1. buy a good brand header with a thick flange. 2. exhaust systems can cost a lot, they are worth it if the motor is built to produce lots of hp. the engine you have, you probably wouldn't feel much difference in a C10. 3. The H pipe for tone balance and torque 4. Personal preference here on a daily driver, if you listen to a radio you wont want Flowmasters
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Trey Silence may be Golden, but Duct Tape is Silver! 72 Short Step 57 "big window" short step |
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 958
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
You will notice a big difference with long tube headers over manifolds. 1 5/8" will be plenty for your primary size. As far as an X pipe or an H pipe. It's personal preference and just about everyone has an opinion on what they prefer. Mufflers are also preference. I am usually a flowmaster guy, but have a set of spin techs for the project I'm working on now.
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#4 |
Registered User
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Location: springfield mo
Posts: 3,075
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
I just put flowmaster super 44s on mine about 2 weeks ago. Sounds better every time I drive it now. Stock manifolds, 2 inch duals all the way back behind rear tires. Sounds great! And I can hear the radio just fine.
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United States Marine Corps 2000-2011 Iraq and Afghanistan veteran Just living life now and enjoying it and my wife, daughter and son ![]() |
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#5 | ||||
Senior Member
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Location: North Texas
Posts: 3,489
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
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Mike 1969 C10 LWB -- owned for 35 years. 350/TH350, 3.08 posi, 1st Gen Vintage Air, AAW wiring harness, 5-lug conversion, 1985 spindles and brakes. 1982 C10 SWB -- sold 1981 C10 Silverado LWB -- sold, but wish I still had it! 1969 C10 (not the current one) that I bought in the early 1980s. Paid $1200; sold for $1500 a few years later. Just a hint at the appreciation that was coming. Retired as a factory automation products salesman. Worked part-time over the years for an engine builder and a classic car repair shop. Member here for 24 years! This is the very first car/truck Internet forum I joined. I still used a dial-up modem back then! |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 56
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
Thanks for the replies all. Good food for thought. Any more opinions on muffler brand? I found some info that indicates Flowmaster and Magnaflo may not be the best choice/restrict more than other brands that cost less.
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#7 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Fresno, ca
Posts: 303
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
I have the same engine as you I have stock manifolds for 2 reasons, I have my engine set up to look completely stock, and I get tired of changing header gaskets its a pain I. The ass and with this engine you won't notice the hp anyways, the ticking of a leaky header gasket drives me insane. I have true duals, h pipe and 40 series flows my truck sounds amazing not super loud at idle but when I hit the gas it sounds like a muscle truck which in my opinion that's what these trucks are supposed to sound like. I live in Fresno where it's over 100 degrees everyday I drive with the windows down and I just turn the radio up louder. Personally I think magnaflows sound terrible on old trucks. Oh my whole system cost $425 out the door mandril bent and all welds no clamps
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1972 gmc c15 short bed... Sold 1970 chevy custom camper patina daily driver |
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#8 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 56
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
What's the deal with leaky headers? I've read a lot of posts about this on this board. Is this due to thin flanges or is there something unique to our engine/truck set-up that contributes to this?
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#9 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Seaside,CA
Posts: 142
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
A decent set of headers with good quality gaskets and fasteners will not leak on you. I have not touched my headers in 15 years. No leaks.
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Fresno, ca
Posts: 303
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
Its due to buying a set of $2-300 headers instead of $600.
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1972 gmc c15 short bed... Sold 1970 chevy custom camper patina daily driver |
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#11 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 56
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
Good to hear elkniks. What type of gasket did you use if you recall? Is it reinforced felt, copper, aluminum...
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#12 |
motor exploder
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,346
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
I'm using Hedman Elite Hedders on the BB in my '69, and they are nice. They have thick flanges, thick tubes and are coated. I wouldn't even mess with an uncoated header, but that's my opinion. They start looking crappy pretty fast. I'm using 3" pipes, an H-pipe and Borla XR-1 mufflers. They are loud as hell at idle and are deafening at WOT. It's not my daily driver.
On the daily driven small block equipped trucks I've had, I like 40 series Flowmasters or Flowtech Terminators. I've also had headers on every daily driven truck I've had and used copper gaskets and NEVER had an issue. The only leak I've ever had was from using a paper header gasket, and that only happened once. Anyhow, both of those mufflers are loud when you get on it, but not annoying at idle or cruising - but I like loud pipes. I've used H-pipes and X pipes, to me there really isn't much difference. The H pipes are a little more boomy/more bass, the x pipe is a little more high pitched and raspy. Mufflers also have a huge effect too, personal preference I guess. I currently have an x pipe with stainless long tube headers & 2.5" duals with Flowtech Terminators on the '05 GMC in my sig - it also has no cats on it and sounds like a hotrod. If I were you I'd do some nice coated 1 5/8" long tube headers & get some copper header gaskets. Throw away the paper gaskets that will most likely come with the headers you buy. Then true duals, and maybe an H-pipe, since to me (just my opinion!) they're easier to package under these trucks and some Flowmasters. I probably wouldn't even worry with the H pipe, as I don't know if you'll see much of a gain, but it's just cool to say you have one. I just like the way Flowmasters sound on Gen I small blocks.
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Adam 1969 Chevy CST/10 stepside, DART Big M/TREMEC Magnum Extreme/3.73's w/Detroit Truetrac 1965 Chevy Bel Air Wagon (daily driver), 327/TH350,10 bolt w/3.08's 1961 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe, ZZ454/M21/9" rear w/3.50's & Detroit Truetrac 2005 GMC 1500 ccsb 2wd, 6.0L/4L65e/3.73 G80 2006 GMC 2500HD ccsb 4x4, DMax LBZ/Allison 6spd/4.56's w/Detroit TrueTrac ![]() ![]() Use the SEARCH function on this forum - it is your friend!! |
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#13 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 56
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
Thanks Mmorgan 32. That's what I was wondering w/respect to flange thickness. I have a 69 custom camper special and lean heavy stock as well. It still has factory paint/patina, white wheels and oem caps. I usually stick to if it ain't broke don't fix it, so sticking w/manifold is definitely attractive. Although I did go hei for reliability and would like a little thump in the exhaust.
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 56
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
Thanks BossHogg69. Copper sound like good advice from what I've read elsewhere. I may decide to bring it down to hot rod rake not slammed in the future. Any idea if standard long tube headers for my C20 present a clearance problem?
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#15 |
Special Order
![]() ![]() Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mt Airy, MD
Posts: 85,859
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
I have headers on my '72 that were installed in '04. I have never had to replace a gasket or even tighten the bolts. They have outlasted the exhaust because one side rusted apart behind the muffler and I had to fix that. The mufflers are Flowmaster and are not too loud for a radio. It's been so long I'm not sure which ones. I've never used an H or an X pipe so I guess I don't know what I'm lacking, because my trucks have always run great and done what I need. I use them to haul, so I don't think it matters enough to argue.
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"BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ Last edited by special-K; 06-22-2015 at 09:20 PM. |
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#16 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Winfield, Ks.
Posts: 4,162
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
On a low horsepower motor you are not going to see a huge difference in HP or Torque between Headers and manifolds so go with what you like the looks off...
I assume with a 350/290hp you aren't drag racing it anyway... JMHO
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Dan Johnston... Owner of My Dad's- '67 Chevy C-20 Custom Camper Short Fleetside Pickup PAPA J And our newest addition a- '71 Chevy CST/10 Short Fleetside Pickup Haulin' SOLD Papa J's Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=612847 Haulin's Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=671130SOLD B Bears Build Thread:http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=744210 |
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#17 |
Special Order
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Location: Mt Airy, MD
Posts: 85,859
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
290hp is respectable power. My how jaded we've become
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"BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ |
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#18 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Spanaway
Posts: 8,451
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
Search a horse power VS pipe diameter flow chart for exhaust pipe and you'll find that for you horse power you won't need anything more than stock manifolds and a 2 1/4 exhaust duals
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Mike. Swamp Rat build thread : http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=595019 72 3/4T 4X4 4" BDS Lift 33" BFG's |
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#19 | |||
"I ain't nobody, dork."
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
Posts: 8,940
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
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Boy haven't we. Just like everyone nowadays is scared to run an engine on the highway at 3,000 RPM's because it's "too high". Modern Fuel Injection and modern overdrive transmissions have really spoiled us. Gary
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'cuz chicks dig scars... My 1972 GMC 1500 Super Custom (Creeping Death) "long term" build thread. The Rebuild of Creeping Death after the wreck Quote:
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#20 |
Special Order
![]() ![]() Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mt Airy, MD
Posts: 85,859
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Re: Manifold or Headers, H or X pipe, muffler brand
^^^ Amen. Makes me wonder how I drove cross country and crissy-crossy all over America in old trucks. I'm sure glad nobody ever told me I couldn't do it cuz those were the best times of my life. People now complain about mufflers that drone. To me, anything with O/D drones at such a low rpm. I love the sound of a truck running 3k or better all day long.
The main thing is use quality crush gaskets and not that paper crap. But, I have had pretty good service even from those. I always doubled up the paper collector gaskets. My experience, and I know they are old cast iron now, has been broke or exploded stock manifolds and leaking donut gaskets. I hate dealing with exhaust manifold studs, too. Is there anyone who does? You can get to collector bolts easy and for me I prefer my plug wires over the top and easy to get to rather than tucked under the manifolds. To each their own and that's my take on it. I've never had headers hurt performance in any noticeable way where they weren't required
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"BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ |
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