Looking at a 1965 C30 - input appreciated

[divideoverflow]

Hello! I don't have a truck yet, but am going to look at a 1965 C30 Dually with the intention of purchasing it this weekend. I could use some input from what you guys can tell of the condition from the pictures, and any things to look for.

The current owner has stated:
"I'm pretty sure it's a 230. It came with a 292 but it was probably swapped out. I don't know the ratio but it is geared low and tops out at 65-70."

He also stated the carb that came on it when he got it was not original and was missing parts, so he put a carb from a 1965 292 on there, so he thinks it runs a bit rich and needs some tinkering, but it isn't bad(I'm going to assume lean though, since the venturi diameter is larger in the 292 carb, right?).

Also, from what I read, it looks like the truck should have a 5.14 axle ratio or something of that nature... Is that always the case?

He also said the truck is pretty clean, just a little surface rust on the bed. He has the intake manifold and the carb the truck had on it when he got it, so I'll probably take those to see what is up with them.

From the pictures, it looks like an HEI distributor? Anything you guys can tell me by looking at it? I'm pretty excited, and want to make sure I don't miss something.









Any help in educating me is much appreciated :-)

[PGSigns]

I saw that on craigs list. Looked like a pretty decent truck. couple of things I saw were the hei, battery looks like it is turned sideways, missing the side panels for the radiator, has had the brakes split, has had the steering column changed to a later model, and maybe later model one piece wheels. No pictures of where they normally rust so can't help there.
Jimmy

[flashed]

I saw one similar that in the Flat Rock area this past weekend ,he was driving around everywhere I was it seemed .

[PGSigns]

Couple of more things, a lot of hammer marks on the driver side inner fender and it looks like the bumper is pushed back on the passenger side. I would look to see if the core support is rotted on that side letting the front end set down lower on that side. That would explain the way the bumper looks.
Jimmy

[TJ's Chevy]

Definitely a 230 or 250 in there with a later style HEI.

[divideoverflow]

I went and looked up the brake split comments after PGSigns brought it up here. Thanks! That is the kind of stuff I wouldn't have known about. I hope they are later one piece wheels, I'm not a fan of only having one place to buy new tires for the old 8-17.5 rims...

Originally Posted by PGSigns

Couple of more things, a lot of hammer marks on the driver side inner fender and it looks like the bumper is pushed back on the passenger side. I would look to see if the core support is rotted on that side letting the front end set down lower on that side. That would explain the way the bumper looks.
Jimmy

So the core support is the part that comes straight off the end of the frame, right?

The part that sticks out the front of the grill of the truck in this picture, and you put bolts through laterally? If that is rotted out, is the solution to have someone cut + weld a new piece on, assuming there isn't additional frame rot? Or would that be someone you would walk away from, as an indicator of other issues?

[divideoverflow]

The current owner said one side is bent a little, but not rotted, and the bumper doesn't touch the body. Thoughts?

edit: also, he said the backs are two piece wheels.

[PGSigns]

What you see in the pic is the front frame horns. here is the core support at Summit for referance. They bolt down tot he frame vertically. The section where the bolt is rots on a lot of these trucks and it allows the core support to drop down and let the front sheet metal sag like what it looks like in the pictures.
Jimmy
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/am...FZMvgQodPUwIOA

[divideoverflow]

Ahhh. I see. I thought you were saying the bumper supports would rot and sag. Is it easy to see if the core support is the culprit? And is it normally the support itself that rots or the frame where the bolt goes through?

In other words, is replacing it with the part you linked at summit generally the fix?

[PGSigns]

Yes they rot at the bottom of the core support. Where the bolt drops through the area will hold water dirt and anything else that finds its way down there. If you look up the core support in the lmc catalog they have a good exploded view of the front end and lots of pictures in the projects section. Just do a search for core support in that section and you will find a lot of pics.
Jimmy

[divideoverflow]

Originally Posted by PGSigns

Yes they rot at the bottom of the core support. Where the bolt drops through the area will hold water dirt and anything else that finds its way down there. If you look up the core support in the lmc catalog they have a good exploded view of the front end and lots of pictures in the projects section. Just do a search for core support in that section and you will find a lot of pics.
Jimmy

You're the man!

Thanks, I was able to find some photos that clearly show what the issue would be, and what I should look for (in case anyone else is stumbling across this and needs to know):


And when replaced:


So it sounds like it isn't the end of the world, and is just a few hours of disassembly and reassembly to change it out if that turns out to be the issue.

[PGSigns]

That truck has other stuff going on also and you need to take a good look at it all. Make you decision based on everything you see from wiring to windows.
Jimmy

[PGSigns]

One more thing I just saw was the key is not in the dash anymore. May have been moved to that late model column. Take a look under the dash at how they did the column mounting and the turn signal wiring. I also dont see the e-brake handle.
Jimmy

[divideoverflow]

Originally Posted by PGSigns

That truck has other stuff going on also and you need to take a good look at it all. Make you decision based on everything you see from wiring to windows.
Jimmy

Oh absolutely. I was just trying to make sure there wasn't anything obvious that y'all could tell me that would dissuade me from even going to look at it. It is a few hour drive for me, so I've been trying to do my homework as much as possible beforehand.

But so far, the rings I know about are:
1. That potential core support issue.
2. 292 carb on the 230/250 (the owner didn't seem sure which block it was, I'll measure the stroke if I buy it.
3. Hammer marks on inner fender.
4. Battery turned sideways and held down by a ratchet strap
5. Radiator side panels missing.
6. Missing fan shroud.

My co-worker told me to check down along the inner fender beneath the battery for rust, that they have a place where the metal comes together and catches junk. And also inside the cab, inside the side air cubbies beneath the dash (don't remember what those are called. My old dodge had sliding access panels where I could reach in and remove leaves and gunk).

Any common rust locations that are hard to see/I have to know where to look?

[divideoverflow]

Originally Posted by PGSigns

One more thing I just saw was the key is not in the dash anymore. May have been moved to that late model column. Take a look under the dash at how they did the column mounting and the turn signal wiring. I also dont see the e-brake handle.
Jimmy

10-4, good catch. I'm definitely buying some stickers if I get this thing! Haha. You've been a big help.

[PGSigns]

Got my first one in 1975, it was a 63. Had them on and off since. Help out when I can.
Jimmy

[jdl71]

Originally Posted by divideoverflow

Oh absolutely. I was just trying to make sure there wasn't anything obvious that y'all could tell me that would dissuade me from even going to look at it. It is a few hour drive for me, so I've been trying to do my homework as much as possible beforehand.

But so far, the rings I know about are:
1. That potential core support issue.
2. 292 carb on the 230/250 (the owner didn't seem sure which block it was, I'll measure the stroke if I buy it.
3. Hammer marks on inner fender.
4. Battery turned sideways and held down by a ratchet strap
5. Radiator side panels missing.
6. Missing fan shroud.

My co-worker told me to check down along the inner fender beneath the battery for rust, that they have a place where the metal comes together and catches junk. And also inside the cab, inside the side air cubbies beneath the dash (don't remember what those are called. My old dodge had sliding access panels where I could reach in and remove leaves and gunk).

Any common rust locations that are hard to see/I have to know where to look?

I haven't seen the ad so I don't know what the owner is asking for it, but nothing on your list is really all that remarkable for a 50+ year old truck. They get hacked up, rigged together etc, so if you like it otherwise I wouldn't let these be deal breakers.

Look for rust above the windshield both inside and out. Rockers, fender corners, floor pans, etc. Crawl underneath and look at cab mounts/supports for rust also. Once again none of these things are all that uncommon (the windshield rust would personally be a deal breaker for me), but depending on how much you want to put into this after your purchase, let that be your guide.


I think it's a pretty cool old truck myself, let us know what happens.

[divideoverflow]

Originally Posted by jdl71

I haven't seen the ad so I don't know what the owner is asking for it, but nothing on your list is really all that remarkable for a 50+ year old truck. They get hacked up, rigged together etc, so if you like it otherwise I wouldn't let these be deal breakers.

Look for rust above the windshield both inside and out. Rockers, fender corners, floor pans, etc. Crawl underneath and look at cab mounts/supports for rust also. Once again none of these things are all that uncommon (the windshield rust would personally be a deal breaker for me), but depending on how much you want to put into this after your purchase, let that be your guide.


I think it's a pretty cool old truck myself, let us know what happens.

Will do! I'll report back either way. The dude is asking $3,300. I thought it seemed fair for a running truck that appears to be in good shape.

I don't want to do a ton of rust repair.. I'm more OK doing mechanical fixes (carb work, engine work that doesn't involve machining, some minor electrical, etc) - because I can do those! lol. I don't know how to weld, and I don't have a garage full of fabrication tools. So anything that requires custom fab work or metal repair will have me questioning it.

For example, I'm perfectly fine with changing out the core support if it just involves hand tools.. I'm comfortable pulling off the front clip, replacing the support, and then putting everything back on. But if it involved cutting/welding, I'd be looking elsewhere unless I found a local friend that I can pay in pizza, beer, labor, etc.

I am excited to have an inline 6 again! I previously had a Dodge D100 w/ a 225 slant six w/ a 4-speed manual, and I loved working on that thing. Unfortunately, it was too light duty for what I wanted, and ended up selling it a while back. I basically want a classic looking, easy to work on truck that can haul a decent load of dirt/bricks/mulch/whatever without falling on its face. The Dodge's engine was always fine for around town work, but it was geared too tall, the rear suspension was inadequate, and I kept having to limit loads... but it got great gas mileage! ~18-23 mpg, and would cruise at 70mph all day comfortably...hence, geared way too tall.

With the C30 I'm looking at here, it is just about the opposite. It is geared REALLY low, so 55mph will probably be "the speed". Which I'm fine with for now. As long as I learn the ins and outs of keeping those big drums calibrated, try to perfect the carburetion, and am able to load up that flat bed, I'll be a happy camper! And as my son gets older (8 months now), I'd like to have a truck like this for us to play with - maybe build a 250 or 292 motor with some bells + whistles as a father son project one day. I have a 99 suburban with a 454 (vortec) if I need to tow anything really heavy, or go long distances. I don't like working on that engine much, though... too cramped.

[spacedebris]

Seems like everyone has you pretty well covered.. However, something I would recommend when going to look at it. Take a soft refrigerator magnet wrapped in a kleenex with you. The kleenex prevents scratches. Use it to check for bondo under that paint. Nice paint can sometimes hide nightmares. Check the lower rear of the front fenders, rockers, lower pillers, around the top of the windshield/rain gutter, and the rear corners of the hood. Those areas are the most prone to rust. Also make sure that you check under the floor mat if possible at the condition of the floors. And dont be afraid to crawl underneath and visually inspect things like breaklines and fuel lines for leaks, transmission leaks, wheel cylinders for weeping. Even if you only find small things, they may help in negotiating a better price

[divideoverflow]

Originally Posted by spacedebris

Seems like everyone has you pretty well covered.. However, something I would recommend when going to look at it. Take a soft refrigerator magnet wrapped in a kleenex with you. The kleenex prevents scratches. Use it to check for bondo under that paint. Nice paint can sometimes hide nightmares. Check the lower rear of the front fenders, rockers, lower pillers, around the top of the windshield/rain gutter, and the rear corners of the hood. Those areas are the most prone to rust. Also make sure that you check under the floor mat if possible at the condition of the floors. And dont be afraid to crawl underneath and visually inspect things like breaklines and fuel lines for leaks, transmission leaks, wheel cylinders for weeping. Even if you only find small things, they may help in negotiating a better price

Roger that on the magnet. I'm already bringing an extra shirt since I plan on crawling all up under the truck. I usually end up spending enough time under my vehicles to make sure I really want to know what I'm getting into down there! Haha.

I have an engine question for the group:
1. Since the 230/250 that is in there is not the original motor, how can I verify it came out of another truck? I assume passenger cars and 1 ton trucks had different cam profiles, so it would be nice to know what I've got there.
2. Aren't the motor mounts different for the 292 and 230? Anything to pay attention to to identify that swap was done correctly? How hard is it to set up the mounts to go back to a 292 in the future?

3. (Only applicable if I buy it) I've been trying to do my homework on the carb situation (292 carb -maybe- on the 230/250). I read the venturi on the 292 carb is larger, reducing the air velocity, but increasing the air volume, and likely resulting in a lean condition, not a rich one. I'm going to keep an eye out for flat spots. But my question is: any way to take advantage of the increased CFM of the carb on a 230? Can I just increase jet sizes to get the fuel volume closer, or am I looking at a waste of time even trying? I'm assuming that doing some exhaust work, and adding an x pipe to help with exhaust scavenging would help increase the draw of the engine, increasing the air velocity coming in.

I just want to make sure I keep the low end torque for a big truck like this. My guess is going to a 2bbl will be the easier way to get improvement, but that involves an adapter plate or a different manifold and a new carb...and that = $$. I'll go pull a correct 230/250 carb before I would decide to do all that.

[BigDan3131]

I think the 292's motor mounts are offset and the little 230/250 are across from one another. There really isn't much in the way of torque for the smaller engines. But if you put a header on it with split exhaust it should wake it up and either Clifford or 12bolt.com have manifolds. I like the one from 12bolt.com better since its a Holley 4 barrel style, you just get the 2 barrel adapter and put either the 350cfm on the 230 or the 500cfm on the 250/292.

[divideoverflow]

Thanks for the input!

You prefer the PES intake even for a daily/street truck? I'm thinking I would want the heated intake for cold weather startup. Either way, I'm not going to be doing all that jazz right off the bat. Those items are spendy... For that kinda money ($300 for intake, $x00 for carb), I'd rather pick up a used 292 if I could find one, and play with that :-)

[padresag]

Originally Posted by BigDan3131

I think the 292's motor mounts are offset and the little 230/250 are across from one another. There really isn't much in the way of torque for the smaller engines. But if you put a header on it with split exhaust it should wake it up and either Clifford or 12bolt.com have manifolds. I like the one from 12bolt.com better since its a Holley 4 barrel style, you just get the 2 barrel adapter and put either the 350cfm on the 230 or the 500cfm on the 250/292.

I have a 230 or a 250 in my 65 1 ton and it performs just fine for what it is. it will do any legal speed limit here. they weren't built to pull "b" trains but what they were meant to do or they wouldn't have sold them
ron

[divideoverflow]

Originally Posted by padresag

I have a 230 or a 250 in my 65 1 ton and it performs just fine for what it is. it will do any legal speed limit here. they weren't built to pull "b" trains but what they were meant to do or they wouldn't have sold them
ron

That is what I was hoping for. I'm not trying to make a 1 ton into a race truck :-)

What gearing do you run on your 1 ton? I'm thinking the 5.13 gears it comes with will be a bit annoying if I have to hit the highway. I was thinking 3.73, but didn't know how well the smaller motors did with the weight of a 1 ton (plus a load, or towing) + the taller gears.

[divideoverflow]

Originally Posted by divideoverflow

That is what I was hoping for. I'm not trying to make a 1 ton into a race truck :-)

What gearing do you run on your 1 ton? I'm thinking the 5.13 gears it comes with will be a bit annoying if I have to hit the highway. I was thinking 3.73, but didn't know how well the smaller motors did with the weight of a 1 ton (plus a load, or towing) + the taller gears.

Weird, no edit button?

Anyway, after looking around, I saw people say that "Only ring and pinion ratios are 4.10 4.57 5.13" for the eaton rear end? In which case 4.10 would be the best to aim for?

Edit: Ah, the edit button just disappears eventually... Anyway, apparently the HO72 4.10s seem to be hens' teeth.