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#1 |
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Location: Wentworth, NH
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Fluid and vapor hoses. What should I use? How should I clamp them.
Many aftermarket and even OEM parts, like fuel pumps, transmission coolers, and inline filters, ship with the wrong hoses and cheap incorrect clamps causing more than a little trouble when they fail prematurely on parts like in-tank fuel pumps that are not very accessible. SAE the Society of Automotive Engineers is a standardization organization that publishes engineering specs for various automotive and industrial systems. You can search for free overviews of the SAE standards by J number on this page http://standards.sae.org/ Complete white papers can be purchased but they're pretty dry reading. Most of the larger name hose manufacturers, Goodyear and Gates to name a few, make hoses that specifically meet various SAE standards. When the J-number is printed on the hose you know exactly what that hose was designed to do. Hopefully this is useful to someone. -SAE J30 http://standards.sae.org/j30_199806/Fuel System Hoses SAE J30 is the SAE standard prefix for fuel hoses. The suffix letter and number gives application specifics. -SAE J30R6 Fuel Filler Hose http://www.goodyearrubberproducts.co...s/page0033.pdf Application:Flexible connection between the rigid filler neck and tank. -SAE J30R7 PCV Emission Control Hose http://www.goodyearrubberproducts.co...s/page0031.pdf Application:WARNING: DO NOT USE J30R7 HOSE FOR FUEL INJECTION LINE OR WITH BIODIESEL.A multipurpose fuel resistant hose. Use for PCV and Charcoal purge lines.Specific Fuel: -SAE J30R9 Fuel Injection Hose http://www.goodyearrubberproducts.co...s/page0032.pdf Application:WARNING: DO NOT USE J30R9 HOSE FOR FUEL PUMPS INSIDE FUEL TANK.Fuel Injection Hose Designed specifically for auto and truck fuel injection systems. Should also be used as low pressure fuel line and fuel vapor recovery line. J30R9 has a better vapor barrier than J30R7.Specific Fuel:Gasoline, ethanol extended gasoline (E10, E-85), oxidized sour gas, diesel fuel, biodiesel.Specs:Working pressure 100PSI -J30R10 Submersible fuel injection hose.http://www.gates.com........submersible-fuel-line-hose Engineered for constant contact with fuels on the inside and outside. Application:NOTE: Many fuel pumps including units from trusted manufacturers ship with hoses not labeled J30R10. Nowhere in their documentation do they state the included hoses meet this standard. I've had these un-marked hoses split on a car. I had to drop the tank a second time to put in the right stuff. It's far easier to buy hose you know won't fail in service.Fuel Hose capable of handling gasoline, alcohol-extended gasoline or diesel fuel in fully immersed, mobile, stationary and marine applications. -6.2L & 6.5L Diesel Injector Return Hoses Nitrile Butadiene Rubber >NBR< Fuel Hose with Black Woven Cover capable of handling low pressure diesel without clamps. ![]() OEM GERMAN >NBR< Black Woven Cloth Covered Nitrile Butadiene RubberApplication:
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. Last edited by hatzie; 04-17-2016 at 04:59 PM. |
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#2 |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,951
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![]() Hot Oil Pressure Hoses -SAE J188 High Pressure Power Steering Hose http://standards.sae.org/j188_201207/ Application:For use in pre-assembled power steering hoses, with specially crimped ferrules, on the pressure side of automotive and truck power steering systems where resistance to power steering fluid is critical.Specs:Working Pressure 1,500PSI -SAE J189 Low Pressure High Temp Power Steering Return Hose http://standards.sae.org/j189_201207/ Application:WARNING: LOW PRESSSURE HOSE DO NOT USE FOR POWER STEERING PRESSURE LINE.For use on the return side of automotive and truck power steering systems where resistance to power steering fluid is critical.Specs: -SAE J2076 Low Pressure High Temp Power Steering Return Hose http://standards.sae.org/j2050_201207/ Application:WARNING: LOW PRESSURE HOSE DO NOT USE FOR POWER STEERING PRESSURE LINE.For use on the return side of automotive and truck power steering systems where resistance to power steering fluid is critical. TRANSMISSION COOLER & OIL COOLER -SAE J1019 High Temperature Transmission and Engine Oil Cooler Hose http://www.veyance.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=6070
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. Last edited by hatzie; 02-04-2016 at 05:33 AM. Reason: Formatting |
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#3 |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,951
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![]() MISC SPECIAL HOSES SAE J1403 Fiber reinforced Power Brake Vacuum Hose. http://www.goodyearrubberproducts.co...s/page0039.pdf Light duty J1403 Type LWA Application:SAE J20 R1-R4 Class D1 - D3 Coolant System Hoses.Power brake vacuum applications on cars and light-duty trucks.Specs:Max Vacuum 26in Hg Regular coolant hoses fall under this spec. I added it just to be complete. Most decent quality formed and straight coolant hoses will meet this spec. The J20 Government Supplement Spec... Pretty dry reading but here it is. http://autoparts-standard.org/index/...J20-1-2009.pdf Application:Radiator, Heater, and Engine Coolant Bypass.
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. Last edited by hatzie; 02-04-2016 at 02:29 PM. |
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#4 |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,951
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![]() Hose ClampsSAE International and the US Military TACOM maintain the following specifications for hose clamping and sealing;
If that didn't turn your brain to jello... you can see why it's fairly easy to use the wrong clamp for the job. There are so many to choose from... including clamps that are not suited for the job. Worm gear clamps are a good example. Just because you can spin a 1/2" ID worm gear clamp down to squeeze 3/8" OD hose, or you can buy one at NAPA labeled 3/8" OD hose, doesn't mean it's working as well as a clamp designed and sized for that job. Here are the ones that can and should, IMHO, be used on our vehicles. -Worm Gear Clamps Or Jubilee clamps I avoid worm gear clamps if I can. They do have their place but there are usually better options. Better quality Worm Gear Clamps are available for a little more money with extended unslotted bands on the inside to protect hoses from damage and a better worm assemby. Google "Breeze Liner" worm gear hose clamps for an example. ![]() Amazon has a pretty decent selection of Breeze Liner Worm Clamps. Application:------------Low pressure large hoses such as Radiator hoses, Heater Hoses, Fuel tank filler hoses.Pros: -Fuel Injection Hose Clamps https://www.google.com/search?q=ABA+...lamps&ie=UTF-8 ![]() Application:------------18mm @11/16" OD and smaller Fuel hoses, Oil Cooler hoses, Power Steering hoses, and Transmission Cooler hoses.Pros: -Constant Tension Band Clamps Band of spring steel with release tangs. https://www.rotorclip.com/hose_clamp_overview.php ![]() Application:------------Radiator hoses, Heater Hoses, Fuel tank filler hoses, Transmission cooler hoses, Power steering return hoses, Low pressure fuel lines.Pros:Cons: -Constant Torque or Constant Tension Hose Clamps ![]() Spring loaded screw adjustable band clamp for larger diameter hoses. Narrow diameter range for each clamp. Available in Worm and T-Bolt. Application:------------Intercooler hoses, Radiator hoses, Fuel filler hoses, and Air intake hoses. -T-Bolt Hose Clamps https://www.google.com/search?q=t-BO...lamps&ie=UTF-8 ![]() T-Bolt clamps provide uniform sealing pressure for a positive, reliable seal. Designed for use in high vibration and large diameter applications common in heavy trucks, industrial machinery, off-road equipment, agricultural irrigation and machinery. Hybrid Constant Tension T-Bolt Clamps with tension spring around the adjuster stud clamps are available. Application:------------Intercooler hoses. Radiator hoses on Medium & Heavy truck engines, Buses, Tractors, and Construction Equipment engines. -Crimp on Band Clamps, Pinch Clamps or, Ear Clamps... Sometimes called Oetiker Clamps ![]() McMaster Carr sells them http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/122/309/=10ztabc {Thanks Ken and ElGracho}MSC Industrial sells Oetiker individual clamps and the crimping tool or shop kits that come with with the crimp tool. http://www.mscdirect.com Oetiker Ear ClampsAmazon has individual Oetiker clamps and shop kits as well for pretty good prices. Search "Oetiker Clamps" on Amazon there are several hundred hits. Application:------------Axle Joint Boots, Power Steering lines, Transmission cooler lines, Fuel Injection lines...Pros:Cons: -Wittek Type Tower Hose Clamps ![]() I included these because someone will ask.------------------------------------- Special Tools For Brake and Cooling Hard Lines Tube Bead Tools Flare Tooling Small Diameter Tube Handling***NOTE: I have listed several tools from Eastwood Inc. I do not own stock in or work for said company. They are a decent convenient tool and finish resource for the home shop, hot-rodding and, restoration community with what appear to be reasonable to OK prices. Everything I've bought from them has met or exceeded my expectations. They have not provided me with free tools or any other compensation.Tube Bending Tools
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. Last edited by hatzie; 04-17-2016 at 05:13 PM. |
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: N.E. Florida
Posts: 500
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
Guys the crimp on band clamps are great. I use the heck out of them. I restore older Harley Davidson's and they used these style clamps on all there oil lines. I had a very hard time finding them at a decent price.
If in a bind you can buy them from your local Harley Davidson parts department, for approx. $5.00 each ouch right ? I found that McMaster Carr has them in stock, but there online catalog doesn't show them, you have to call in with the sizes you want. And they will hook you up, and there prices are much better. And finally just the other day I was in Home Depot and found them in the plumbing department, in pack of 20 for around 10 bucks. Ken
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1985 IROC Z28 190HP TPI 305,700r4,T-tops,rear trac lock, Black on lite gray, 16in Z28 wheels 2007 Lexus ES350 (wifes) 1984 CJ7 with 1995 HO4.0L MPI, 2 1/2 OME YJ Lift “There is no limit to the amount of good you can do if you don't care who gets the credit.” ― Ronald Reagan |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 831
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
Great info, Thanks hatzie
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1973 k20 Suburban 350 1974 Custom stepside c-10 250 1975 Chevy stepside 454 1986 K30 Crewcab SRW 350 R.I.P- glimmertwin01- board member and good friend, you will be missed |
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#7 | |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,951
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
Quote:
Depends on whether you need to take em on and off for maintenance. Oil cooler line flex sections and CV boots are a good place for em. You want German Fuel Injection Clamps or Rotor Clip Constant Tension Clamps on things like inline fuel/transmission/power-steering filters, tank selector valves, and electric fuel pump connections. One thing I didn't mention was the need for beads on pressure lines to make keeping the hoses in place easier.
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. |
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#8 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Des Moines, IA.
Posts: 4,143
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
T-bolts are what I prefer to use on radiator hoses because hey are a high grade of stainless and are extremely stout! Besides its a little thing among many that stand out if its a local build which I'm any part of....nobody thinks outside of the box much when it comes to higher end fasteners....at least not around my area.
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#9 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Otway OH
Posts: 788
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
Very nice write up, Very informative. My 75 K-10 still has the original Wittek clamps on the heater hoses. Been doing the job for 40 years now, I've put together a NOS set for the radiator hoses I'll be installing shortly. I've tried but I just can't think outside the AC Delco box.
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Northwest NJ
Posts: 684
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
Great info. hatzie ! Thanks for taking the time to post. Doing the job right includes all the details....including hoses & clamps.
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#11 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Freedom Pa.
Posts: 1,335
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
Great Post!
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#12 | ||
Gentleman Jim Driver
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Poulsbo, WA
Posts: 1,550
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
Excellent writeup.
Quote:
Quote:
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Joe '75 GMC Gentleman Jim '84 Chev C10 Short Wide - Super duper plain (manual steering, manual brakes, no dome light, no cig lighter) '85 Chev C10 Short Wide - Super plain Vortec 4.8 4L60E trans also: '81 K30, '83 C30 Crew Dually, '84 M1028 CUCV, '85 M1009 CUCV, another '85 C10 SWB, '89 R3500 Flatbed |
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#13 | |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,951
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
Quote:
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. Last edited by hatzie; 02-05-2016 at 01:38 PM. |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,188
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
Overall, if space is not a concern, the old tower clamps seem to provide more even pressure than the worm style clamps. The best clamps from a technical point of view are the spring clamps used on newer vehicles, but they are difficult to install and remove in tight spaces - unless you have a cable operated hose clamp tool which costs some big $$$.
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#15 | |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,951
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
Quote:
Ratcheting cable clamp pliers are where you run into real money they tend to run between $75 & $150. My MKV TDI VW uses them everywhere. I have a Draper 89793 230mm Ratcheting cable clamp tool that cost around $75. I see the Draper tool on evilbay for just under $60.
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. Last edited by hatzie; 02-05-2016 at 03:51 PM. |
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,188
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
I guess i too cheap.
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#17 |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,951
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
Cheap isn't a bad thing.
Have a look on Amazon There are a few in the $20-$35 range that have enough decent reviews that they can't all be from shills. I don't use the cable tools on radiator hoses. The locking spring clamp pliers or channel locks will do them.
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. |
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#18 |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,951
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
I have plenty of experience with steel and SAE fuel, oil etc hose.
I do not have experience with the new black Nylon fuel lines used on the more recent LT1 & LS motors and a lot of other more modern vehicles that some of us are borrowing drivetrains from. I'm not finding a lot of information on an SAE spec so far but I'm sure one exists. What do you folks know about it? Tooling for termination? What to look out for so you get the proper line and not some cheesy stuff that's going to melt from a year of fuel exposure or get brittle? Is it so reliable that nobody has to mess with it? Or just too new? I'll try to compile some information eventually. I'm interested in some input from folks that have worked with it.
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. |
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#19 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,188
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Re: Hoses and Clamps what do I use.
I don't think I could get the channel lock style locking pliers on the bottom hoses of the radiator - there is no room to maneuver a wrench. The cable style just needs room to hook on the top of the clamp.
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