1965 GMC 1500 Cummins?

[nateshrek]

Hey guys, just thinking about the next step I'd like to do with my short bed 65. I'd really love to throw a 12v in the ol girl. So I guess the question would be... Where do I start?!?! Do you guys think it would be easier/ better the get a cummins, shorten the frame, and set my body on it? Or figure out a way to stuff the cummins in my beefed up 1500 frame? If there's other threads in here about this, I'd love to see them. Or if someone has done it, I'll take any thoughts and info I can get!
Thanks guys!
Nate.

[Palf70Step]

There is folks that have done it. I knoiw this is not same engine you mentioned, but ziplock maybe the person to talk to.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=626782

You can also check here, as I am sure folks may have your answer

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/f...play.php?f=240

[nateshrek]

Hey thanks for that, it's exactly what I was looking for and hoping to find.

[spacedebris]

My project is on indefinite hold but you can take a look at what I've done so far. The 12v is a bit long for the engine compartment so quite a bit of firewall mods are needed.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=523009

[wjjeeper]

Originally Posted by nateshrek

Hey guys, just thinking about the next step I'd like to do with my short bed 65. I'd really love to throw a 12v in the ol girl. So I guess the question would be... Where do I start?!?! Do you guys think it would be easier/ better the get a cummins, shorten the frame, and set my body on it? Or figure out a way to stuff the cummins in my beefed up 1500 frame? If there's other threads in here about this, I'd love to see them. Or if someone has done it, I'll take any thoughts and info I can get!
Thanks guys!
Nate.

Why not run a 4BT and put some turbo upgrades at it?
Would fit in the engine compartment with less mods and isn't nearly as heavy.

[nateshrek]

Hey guys. Still trying to do some research on how and what to do for this swap... I've looked at a lot of the post about this. And is it possible to box the frame, just pull off the front clip and "slip" the cummins in? Of course it being that easy, lol. I know I'll need to beef everything up, but it's going to be hard for me to do a full cab off conversion, over a long period of time. What's the thoughts on that? Or is it wishful thinking?

[streetrodchev]

A truck at a car show I was at...
Nice touch with the original valve cover cut and placed over the cummins valve covers.

[TJ's Chevy]

Originally Posted by streetrodchev

A truck at a car show I was at...
Nice touch with the original valve cover cut and placed over the cummins valve covers.
]

Now That is cool.

[spacedebris]

Originally Posted by nateshrek

Hey guys. Still trying to do some research on how and what to do for this swap... I've looked at a lot of the post about this. And is it possible to box the frame, just pull off the front clip and "slip" the cummins in? Of course it being that easy, lol. I know I'll need to beef everything up, but it's going to be hard for me to do a full cab off conversion, over a long period of time. What's the thoughts on that? Or is it wishful thinking?

Before making any concrete decisions you first have to decide on how much power/torque you are going to run. A stock '96 12v (I use this as it is the most powerful) is ~160-180HP and ~ 400 lbs. Now if this is all you plan to run then you should only need to beef up the suspension a little. Basically I'd run 1 ton running gear.

But what fun is that The 12V is capable of so much more. Personally my goals are in the 300-350 HP range and 800 lbs. At that level you will have to box part of the frame, you want it stronger but not too rigid. Also I think beefing up the rear end a bit.

However, I dont think there is going to be any way in hell you are going to find a way to just drop a 12v in. It simply will not fit in the engine compartment. No matter what you will have to do firewall clearancing. Either that or stretch the frame and fenders forward. Take a look at my post with the pics of the engine compartment from my earlier post. Leaving only enough room for the radiator and inter-cooler in the stock locations, two cylinders will enter the cab, no way around that.

If you really are set on wanting to simply drop in an engine, then a BT4 will be the way to go. You can get some really impressive numbers that way and not have all the fabrication. But if you really want the 12V, it will take work. Now for me, it's worth it, but for you......depends on how much work and fab you are willing to do.

[patrickk1]

Or you could drop the cab and bed on a dodge frame. I've seen someone use a 1st gen ram frame and I had planned to use a 3rd gen ram 2500 frame/suspension. The 3rd gen ram frame is almost perfect dimension wise for the cab. You just need to remove the old mounts and fabricate new ones right on top of the frame rails. The 63-66 cab mount locations are within 1/4 of center of the frame rails. The bed floor would need to be raised due to the frame kickup, or you could reverse zee the frame in the back. The 3rd gen ram frame is beefy too.

[Popcorn W]

Around here at least, you can buy a used 6bt cheaper than a 4bt. I guess they've become so popular for swaps, plus I don't think there were that many built anyway. A friend of mine has been searching for one to put into his Toyota 4x4 but he's finding they're way outta his budget.

[Bigben89]

I like where this is going and have considered the same thing but with a 1960 GMC 4000. It is a much beefier truck so it should be able to handle the engine weight just fine with its heavier front suspension however the question remains the heavy duty trucks had the same cabs as the light duty correct? So would the fabrication work still be a requirement?

[spacedebris]

Originally Posted by patrickk1

Or you could drop the cab and bed on a dodge frame. I've seen someone use a 1st gen ram frame and I had planned to use a 3rd gen ram 2500 frame/suspension. The 3rd gen ram frame is almost perfect dimension wise for the cab. You just need to remove the old mounts and fabricate new ones right on top of the frame rails. The 63-66 cab mount locations are within 1/4 of center of the frame rails. The bed floor would need to be raised due to the frame kickup, or you could reverse zee the frame in the back. The 3rd gen ram frame is beefy too.

This will not work. Not for the issue at hand anyway. The problem is not the frame. If you want another frame thats fine, but it will not solve the space issue. The problem is the physical room under the hood. The distance from firewall to radiator support is not sufficient to mount a 12v. Now if you do not clearance the firewall, then you would have to push the radiator support forward, which would move the fenders forward, which means stretching the fenders.

Oh you could move the radiator and inter-cooler forward slightly but not enough to make much difference. the 12v is just about 1 foot too long for the engine compartment (radiator in stock location). With a bit of work you likely could move the radiator forward a few inches but not a foot. Dont forget that you also have to figure in clearance for the steering as well and that sort of limits how far forward you can push the engine.

[Bigben89]

SD,
What's your opinion on the 3.0L v6 Eco Diesel Sold by Ram and the new 5.0L v8 Cummins that will be available in the new 2016 Titan. Soon these will start to become available as these trucks get older and start making their way into the salvage yards. With the eco diesel's compact size could this be the "next generations" 4bt? Only ass pain will be the electronics of course and tuning

" The EcoDiesel is running a FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles) engine control unit. If it is anything like the FCA unit in the Ram, tuning could prove to be very challenging. On the other hand, the 5.0-Liter Cummins will be running a Cummins engine control unit. Tuning companies have quite a bit of experience with “cracking” these and tuning will probably be out within a fairly short period of time."

[patrickk1]

Originally Posted by spacedebris

This will not work. Not for the issue at hand anyway. The problem is not the frame. If you want another frame thats fine, but it will not solve the space issue. The problem is the physical room under the hood. The distance from firewall to radiator support is not sufficient to mount a 12v. Now if you do not clearance the firewall, then you would have to push the radiator support forward, which would move the fenders forward, which means stretching the fenders.

Oh you could move the radiator and inter-cooler forward slightly but not enough to make much difference. the 12v is just about 1 foot too long for the engine compartment (radiator in stock location). With a bit of work you likely could move the radiator forward a few inches but not a foot. Dont forget that you also have to figure in clearance for the steering as well and that sort of limits how far forward you can push the engine.

At no point did I state that no firewall modifications would be necessary. Others had stated that they would be needed so I did not feel the need to repeat that. I was addressing the OPs original question concerning swapping his cab to a cummins frame. It has been done in a gen1 ram frame and would work in a 3rd gen ram frame (I have had the cab on the frame).

[spacedebris]

Originally Posted by Bigben89

SD,
What's your opinion on the 3.0L v6 Eco Diesel Sold by Ram and the new 5.0L v8 Cummins that will be available in the new 2016 Titan. Soon these will start to become available as these trucks get older and start making their way into the salvage yards. With the eco diesel's compact size could this be the "next generations" 4bt? Only ass pain will be the electronics of course and tuning

" The EcoDiesel is running a FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles) engine control unit. If it is anything like the FCA unit in the Ram, tuning could prove to be very challenging. On the other hand, the 5.0-Liter Cummins will be running a Cummins engine control unit. Tuning companies have quite a bit of experience with “cracking” these and tuning will probably be out within a fairly short period of time."

I like the idea, but the reason I chose the 12v myself is to get away from all the electronic junk. No computer, no smog, only a simple controller for the transmission. I like the idea the it will run and keep running no matter what. Also the new smog laws regarding new diesels is a bit ridiculous, especially here in CA so I want to avoid all that. And I think this is the whole reason to choose the 6bt and 4bt and why they are so popular. If the electronics didnt matter then the 24v would be another choice. Size wise it is nearly identical to the 12v, and much easier to mod with tuners but you have to deal with all the electronics.

However, the newer diesels have much going for them. Easier to mod with tuners/programmers. And with those you can change your power levels on the fly. It wont take long for companies like Banks to crack the eco. By the time they become easily available in the junk yards they'll have it whipped. They'll likely fit a bit easier but not having seen one yet, there may be other issues. Most of the newer diesels tend to be a bit taller and wider. Not likely to be an issue but still a possibility. Plus if the electronics are not an issue, you'll have more choices like the duramax. My brothers 2009 GMC Duramax is an awesome engine. Bigger than the cummins but workable.

But like I said, I'm in it because I like to be different so I wanted a diesel in my panel. And I chose the 12v for the power, ease of building power, and the shear ruggedness, and lack of electronics. Its one of those engines that will keep going like the energizer bunny after the nuclear apocalypse.

Originally Posted by patrickk1

At no point did I state that no firewall modifications would be necessary. Others had stated that they would be needed so I did not feel the need to repeat that. I was addressing the OPs original question concerning swapping his cab to a cummins frame. It has been done in a gen1 ram frame and would work in a 3rd gen ram frame (I have had the cab on the frame).

Sorry, my bad. Reading the posts in order I read it as an answer to fitting it into the engine bay. Didn't mean any offense. I sometimes get a bit fixed on the flow of a conversation rather than considering replies to earlier statements.

[patrickk1]

Originally Posted by Bigben89

SD,
What's your opinion on the 3.0L v6 Eco Diesel Sold by Ram and the new 5.0L v8 Cummins that will be available in the new 2016 Titan. Soon these will start to become available as these trucks get older and start making their way into the salvage yards. With the eco diesel's compact size could this be the "next generations" 4bt? Only ass pain will be the electronics of course and tuning

" The EcoDiesel is running a FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles) engine control unit. If it is anything like the FCA unit in the Ram, tuning could prove to be very challenging. On the other hand, the 5.0-Liter Cummins will be running a Cummins engine control unit. Tuning companies have quite a bit of experience with “cracking” these and tuning will probably be out within a fairly short period of time."

It was reported in 2012 that Banks Engineering had been working directly with VM Motori to engineer its own version of the 3.0L, codenamed the Banks 630T, for use in military and other specialty-use applications. They have some info on the 630T on their website.