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#1 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Indy, IN
Posts: 637
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3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
I've never seen it done, but it exists! https://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/5581259688.html
I don't know how it is surviving behind that big block. Hahah
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Andrew 1953 3100 292 T5 1985 K5 Blazer 350 700R4 208 |
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#2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Gallup, New Mexico
Posts: 188
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
Those 3 speed saginaws are bulletproof. Hold up to 600 + horsepower in the Racecars . Only thing that happens is the ears where they bolt to the bell housing crack eventually.
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#3 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Indy, IN
Posts: 637
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
Ya I have not been too kind to my Saginaw behind my 350 but I guess it's how you drive it.
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Andrew 1953 3100 292 T5 1985 K5 Blazer 350 700R4 208 |
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#4 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Memphis MI
Posts: 1,851
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
There are two different Saginaw 3 speeds in our era. The one in my 3/4 ton is stronger than the ones in my 1/2 tones, including beefier shift rods, etc.
The key, like any manual trans, is to not shock load it. Let the tires spin a little, let the clutch slip a little, and they will be fine. Bazillion ft-lb of torque, suddenly applied, will break most things, hopefully the sacrificial u-joints first.
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1987 2 ton ![]() 1982 ![]() Dad's 1981 ![]() Plus a mess o' tractors |
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#5 | |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Indy, IN
Posts: 637
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
Quote:
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Andrew 1953 3100 292 T5 1985 K5 Blazer 350 700R4 208 |
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#6 | |
PITbut
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: monroe washington
Posts: 3,052
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
Quote:
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New project. 1971 Twin Turbo blazer http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=676047 My new YOUTUBE channel.. Videos of my truck and a current walk around. Lyrikz74 Youtube channel DONE! SOLD! ![]() My 1971 stepside build thread My Build Thread UPDATED 6/11. DONE and sold. |
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#7 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Motor City
Posts: 9,194
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
Quote:
Or the SM465 three speed with the creeper low? K
__________________
Chevrolet Flint Assembly 1979-1986 GM Full Size Truck Engineering 1986 - 2019 Intro from an Old Assembly Guy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 My Pontiac story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 Chevelle intro: http://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ |
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#8 | |
PITbut
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: monroe washington
Posts: 3,052
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
Quote:
Sm465 3 speed with creeper low. Its about ready to be in scrap as we speak. Are they worth anything?
__________________
New project. 1971 Twin Turbo blazer http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=676047 My new YOUTUBE channel.. Videos of my truck and a current walk around. Lyrikz74 Youtube channel DONE! SOLD! ![]() My 1971 stepside build thread My Build Thread UPDATED 6/11. DONE and sold. |
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#9 |
I know the pieces fit
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MONTGOMERY, AL
Posts: 5,523
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
Yes, it's considered one of the most bullet-proof trans ever made. Jeep guys and rock crawlers love them although the NV4500 has taken some of the attention away.
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#10 |
PITbut
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: monroe washington
Posts: 3,052
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
So i should put it up for sale instead of throwing it away? Any idea what i should ask? If i sell it, i will split it with you. Seriously.
__________________
New project. 1971 Twin Turbo blazer http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=676047 My new YOUTUBE channel.. Videos of my truck and a current walk around. Lyrikz74 Youtube channel DONE! SOLD! ![]() My 1971 stepside build thread My Build Thread UPDATED 6/11. DONE and sold. |
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#11 |
I know the pieces fit
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MONTGOMERY, AL
Posts: 5,523
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
Dude I appreciate that but I wouldn't think of it, besides - you're going to deal with some CL wackos before you find a buyer. I don't know about your market but I see them for sale in the Atlanta area listed from $150 to 175, and that's usually for one that's already been pulled and is laying on the ground. You're in a spot where a potential buyer could test the trans out before you pull it so they know they're getting a good one so $250 or more is a reasonable starting point.
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#12 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: North Texas
Posts: 3,484
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
Here are the 1st gear ratios that I found for Saginaw 3-speeds used in the early-mid 1980s. I did the search last year to see if it would be a good idea to use one that came behind a 250 six for my new 350 V-8. Obviously it would have been a bad idea! The taller the ratio (lower number), the more torque the trans can handle. Never could find the torque-handling specs, though.
3.50: 250 six 3.11: 292 six 2.85: 305 V-8 2.54: 350 V-8 I guess if you drive conservatively and don't pull a trailer, you could get away using one designed for a 305 or 292. But I wouldn't do it. I couldn't find one that was used behind a big block, but I'm pretty sure trucks were available with that combo, at least in the mid-late 60s. ****Edit**** Just found this info for 1966 vehicles. It was Borg Warner trans that was used behind a 396. B-W H.D. 3-speed Manual (327/396) 2.41 1.57 1.00 Maybe Keith Seymour can shed some more light on the subject.
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Mike 1969 C10 LWB -- owned for 35 years. 350/TH350, 3.08 posi, 1st Gen Vintage Air, AAW wiring harness, 5-lug conversion, 1985 spindles and brakes. 1982 C10 SWB -- sold 1981 C10 Silverado LWB -- sold, but wish I still had it! 1969 C10 (not the current one) that I bought in the early 1980s. Paid $1200; sold for $1500 a few years later. Just a hint at the appreciation that was coming. Retired as a factory automation products salesman. Worked part-time over the years for an engine builder and a classic car repair shop. Member here for 24 years! This is the very first car/truck Internet forum I joined. I still used a dial-up modem back then! Last edited by MikeB; 06-25-2016 at 09:12 PM. |
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#13 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: North Texas
Posts: 3,484
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
Unless I'm doing the math wrong, it looks like a Saginaw trans with 2.54 1st gear can handle 38% more torque than one with a 3.50 first gear. Of course that assumes the same case, spline count, bearings etc. with a different gearset.
Similarly, an M21 Muncie 4-speed with a 2.20 1st gear can handle 15.5% more torque than an M20 with 2.54 1st gear. The M22 took it a step further with straighter cut gears (for less side-loading) and more splines on input and output shafts.
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Mike 1969 C10 LWB -- owned for 35 years. 350/TH350, 3.08 posi, 1st Gen Vintage Air, AAW wiring harness, 5-lug conversion, 1985 spindles and brakes. 1982 C10 SWB -- sold 1981 C10 Silverado LWB -- sold, but wish I still had it! 1969 C10 (not the current one) that I bought in the early 1980s. Paid $1200; sold for $1500 a few years later. Just a hint at the appreciation that was coming. Retired as a factory automation products salesman. Worked part-time over the years for an engine builder and a classic car repair shop. Member here for 24 years! This is the very first car/truck Internet forum I joined. I still used a dial-up modem back then! |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Motor City
Posts: 9,194
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Re: 3 speed Saginaw behind a 454!
I'm not quite sure what to add, so I'll just "free express" a little bit:
As a customer you would would specify the three speed column shifted manual trans (merchandised option MM3) on the order blank. There were two different versions of that which the engineering release would choose from, (non-merchandised options M62 or M64), with different first gear ratios selected based on other vehicle criteria (engine, series, GVW, etc). The fact that the three speed Saginaw (passenger car type) and the four speed Saginaw (passenger car type) were the same external dimensions made swaps a breeze. We used to order our trucks with the column shifted three speed and then immediately replace it with a 3:11 low gear four speed, with a floor mounted Hurst shifter, which was fine for our spirited daily driver/parts chasing/light trailer towing duty cycle. No big block/passenger car three speed combinations were available from the factory, at least during the timeframe in which I was involved. I'm attaching the generic info packet for the 1980 pickups, just because it does have some nice additional detail on the SM465/merchandised RPO MM4/non-merchandised RPO M20 (page 112) and passenger car type Saginaw three speeds (page 118), for comparison purposes. https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/doc...olet-Truck.pdf K
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Chevrolet Flint Assembly 1979-1986 GM Full Size Truck Engineering 1986 - 2019 Intro from an Old Assembly Guy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 My Pontiac story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 Chevelle intro: http://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ Last edited by Keith Seymore; 06-27-2016 at 09:52 AM. |
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