E-15 Fuel Compatibilty Question

[weedoublewide]

So as I keep looking for the "Truck", I sometimes find myself so deep in google or some forum on issues with classic vehicles. This last hur-raw into the abyss of google took me down the road of how you need to retune a carburetor that's pre-75ish for the effects of ethanol. Since those engines were made to run on "pure gasoline" not a blended mix......if I missed anything please feel free to add in.

So with that being sad there's certain things to be done to remedy that effect of what ethanol does to the fuel system.
1) change the rubber, copper, and aluminum fuel lines to stainless or a ethanol resistant line
2) go from fiberglass to stainless gas tank
3) make sure O-rings and gaskets are ethanol resistant as well..


But my question to everyone whose had many of these things apart, what are the real world effects on the fuel system and engine if these things are taken care of? Is it that big of an issue, or is it something small that is blown up into something big?

Looking forward to the insite, thanks guys!!!!

[dirtyjim]

most of what you read is a myth. you only need to replace fuel lines if they are deteriorated, but on a 40 year old truck any of them that are original are probably deteriorated and you don't need stainless. your standard 3/8 metal fuel line and hose from the parts house is sufficient as is your standard carburetor rebuild kits. ethanol blended fuel will vaporlock at a lower temp than non ethanol fuel when using a mechanical fuel pump in very hot weather

[weedoublewide]

Originally Posted by dirtyjim

most of what you read is a myth. you only need to replace fuel lines if they are deteriorated, but on a 40 year old truck any of them that are original are probably deteriorated and you don't need stainless. your standard 3/8 metal fuel line and hose from the parts house is sufficient as is your standard carburetor rebuild kits. ethanol blended fuel will vaporlock at a lower temp than non ethanol fuel when using a mechanical fuel pump in very hot weather

Ten-Four Jim I appreciate your wise expertise.

When that day comes ill make sure that goes on the check list for first things to get taken care of.

[Bigdav160]

What myth? Alcohol readily absorbs moisture and quickly saturates leading to phase separation. The alcohol then rust out the gas tank. It doesn't need to be said how corrosive alcohol is to rubber.

I have several old cars/boats and it is a never ending challenge keeping the fuel systems from deteriorating.

A daily driver? Not that much of a problem.

[weedoublewide]

Originally Posted by Bigdav160

What myth? Alcohol readily absorbs moisture and quickly saturates leading to phase separation. The alcohol then rust out the gas tank. It doesn't need to be said how corrosive alcohol is to rubber.

I have several old cars/boats and it is a never ending challenge keeping the fuel systems from deteriorating.

A daily driver? Not that much of a problem.

Just to cover all bases, it would be wise to move to a stainless gas tank, and ethanol resistant fuel lines and all that good stuff just for safe measure? I'm the kind of guy who lines hard problems to figure out but once I find the solution I like to do it once...

Do you see a problem with driving it during the week sometimes and on the weekends?

and what other problems have you encountered with the deteriorating fuel system...?

Thanks in advance

[dirtyjim]

if your already planning on replacing the fuel system go for it. if not only replace what needs replacing. I happen to be replacing my fuel lines with stainless because I am moving the tank to the rear and pretty much rebuilding the whole truck. I also have 37 degree flare tools that can handle stainless tubing along with a set of parker beading tools if were to run standard 3/8 hose instead of -an.

bottom line is if your fuel system is already deteriorated ethanol fuel will accelerate the process but not by much, a little more if it sits.

[mike16]

corrosive to rubber?

most fuel lines manufactured today are adaptable to alcohol fuel. I say most simply because I cant be 100% sure. Every fuel line I have used in the last 10 years is alcohol ressistant.

Most carb rebuild kits are also assembled with parts that resist alcohol. perhaps not all but every one I have come accross in the last 5 years has.

the need for stainless steel tanks and hard lines are also a bit over rated. regular lines and tanks in good shap should do. Stainless? perhaps if your already got the fuel system apart. its not a major expense for the hard lines but the tank can set you back quite a bit.

we're talkin e15 witch is 15% alcohol

with e85 you may want to go with the stainless steel lines and tank. and when you rebuild your carb you will have to richen up your mixture quite a bit.

I have found that alcohal has a solvent effect and washes alot of dibris out of your fuel system. I put two disposible clear fuel filters in the system and carry at least two spares as well. even so, I have rebuilt my carb several times because even very fine debris will get past the filters and foul the system. My factory fuel pump was arbritrarily replaced as well. three times due to debris fouling the valves. I dont know if a factory pump from 72 would servive the alcohal. no problems with the new pump diaphagm. but they clogged up with alot of junk. the clogging issue eventually goes away but always look at your filters and keep replacements on hand

I live at 5000 feet of altitude in AZ. temp, humidity and air density play a big part in how your truck runs with e15, Idle issues were the biggest problem. Not real big even at 5k altitude. Not worth the savings really. I use premium fuel as the difference in cost when you fill up is just not that much more.

[weedoublewide]

Originally Posted by mike16

corrosive to rubber?

most fuel lines manufactured today are adaptable to alcohol fuel. I say most simply because I cant be 100% sure. Every fuel line I have used in the last 10 years is alcohol ressistant.

Most carb rebuild kits are also assembled with parts that resist alcohol. perhaps not all but every one I have come accross in the last 5 years has.

the need for stainless steel tanks and hard lines are also a bit over rated. regular lines and tanks in good shap should do. Stainless? perhaps if your already got the fuel system apart. its not a major expense for the hard lines but the tank can set you back quite a bit.

we're talkin e15 witch is 15% alcohol

with e85 you may want to go with the stainless steel lines and tank. and when you rebuild your carb you will have to richen up your mixture quite a bit.

I have found that alcohal has a solvent effect and washes alot of dibris out of your fuel system. I put two disposible clear fuel filters in the system and carry at least two spares as well. even so, I have rebuilt my carb several times because even very fine debris will get past the filters and foul the system. My factory fuel pump was arbritrarily replaced as well. three times due to debris fouling the valves. I dont know if a factory pump from 72 would servive the alcohal. no problems with the new pump diaphagm. but they clogged up with alot of junk. the clogging issue eventually goes away but always look at your filters and keep replacements on hand

I live at 5000 feet of altitude in AZ. temp, humidity and air density play a big part in how your truck runs with e15, Idle issues were the biggest problem. Not real big even at 5k altitude. Not worth the savings really. I use premium fuel as the difference in cost when you fill up is just not that much more.

I would have to agree with you on that mike, I popped the hood on my 11' Silverado and those lines were alcohol resistant. So even though you've taken proactive measures to keep the problem from happening, it can still be am issue... I'm in texas and the sealevel where I'm at is < 1000ft..so I don't really see the idle issue being a big problem..then again ive been wrong before and it wont be the first and certainly not the last.

Now this brings up another question I was going to ask at some point in time...just how bad are the altitude changes?

Originally Posted by dirtyjim

if your already planning on replacing the fuel system go for it. if not only replace what needs replacing. I happen to be replacing my fuel lines with stainless because I am moving the tank to the rear and pretty much rebuilding the whole truck. I also have 37 degree flare tools that can handle stainless tubing along with a set of parker beading tools if were to run standard 3/8 hose instead of -an.

bottom line is if your fuel system is already deteriorated ethanol fuel will accelerate the process but not by much, a little more if it sits.

Jim, I think you said it best in your very first sentence..ill replace the whole system with an uptodate lines.

Because lets be honest, whatever truck I end up with its going to have had who knows how many people in that hood doing what to it in the last 40+ years...

Why move the tank to the rear? just out of pure curiosity

Again thanks guys

[dirtyjim]

i'm moving the tank to the rear for two reasons, one it has rust in it so it needs replaced and to get a little bit of use from the space behind the seat.