Terrible idle, difficult start, and smoke!

[C1ph3r]

Hey guys. so the other day i pulled my truck just out of the garage to get some usable space in there, and turned it off.

When I was done, backed it into the garage.

All said, the truck ran for less than a minute each time and moved all of 20 feet round trip.

I know, not the best thing for an engine but its all that was needed.

WELLLL, I went to drive it the next day and it would not start. It kicked once but then nothing. Turned the key, held it on nothing. just turned and turned via the started. So i give it a little throttle and it half ass fired up ran for a couple seconds very poorly and shut off.

So me being a bozo, gave it lots of gas got it to actually idle under its own power and pulled it out of the garage so as to not totally fill the garage and house up with fumes and smoke.

Well, there is the problem. He will not run very well and smoked like a freight train. Sounds/feels like it isnt firing on all 8.

To be honest, i couldn't tell if the smoke was white or gray. but yowza. it was bad. It didn't have a sweet smell like I have heard coolant in the engine would have. But I was in such a frantic state of mind (was in a big hurry to get somewhere then this happened) that I cant recall exactly what it smelled like. My truck runs pretty rich anyway but doesnt smoke. At all until this point.

Specs:
70 C10 350 TH350
HEI distributor
original motor except that HEI part and an open air cleaner
Heartthrob true duels

could i have just very badly flooded it and it is running super rich? Could i have coolant in the oil now for some odd ball reason? Or tranny fluid coming in from that modulator?

seems that if the day before all was well, i am really hoping its just flooded. But wish in one hand crap in the other and see which one fills up first right.

what would be the first thing to take a look at?

[truckster]

If you flooded it enough to wet down the plugs it could run like that. How long did you run it after you got it out of the garage?

[C1ph3r]

just long enough to freak out a little and pull it back in. not even 5 minutes. i got out, looked under the hood like I was going to see something, and pulled it back in. maybe closer to 2-3 minutes.

so maybe start with pulling the plugs and seeing if they wet? dry them off drop them back in?

[67 chevelle]

when running rich the smoke is black ,clean the carb , inside and out , how old is the gas ?

[C1ph3r]

the gas is maybe a 4 days old. and the carb is less than 6 months old. I drive the truck very regularly. as in 3-4 times a week.

[truckster]

The most likely scenario is that it was flooded. You could pull some plugs and see what their condition is. That's where I would start.

[C1ph3r]

i'll take a look at the plugs later on and post back up the findings.

thanks

[geezer#99]

What carb?

[C1ph3r]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

What carb?

stock quadrajet. with an electric choke.

[geezer#99]

You got pics??

Could be crap in the needle/seat.

Rich idle can be lack of timing and cranking up the idle on the carb to get it to idle.

What's your initial timing?

[C1ph3r]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

You got pics??

Could be crap in the needle/seat.

Rich idle can be lack of timing and cranking up the idle on the carb to get it to idle.

What's your initial timing?

Not sure what pics you would want to see. The smoke? As for timing, I'll be honest I have no idea what it is. Just as a reminder, nothing changed from the day before when it stated on the first kick over and ran fine.

The timing is a whole other can of worms. To be honest I never set it with a light after swapping the HEI a few months ago. I am sure the timing of not set very ideal.

I'm going to go pull the plugs and take a look after lunch. I'll post back up once I've taken a look.

[C1ph3r]

Oh. Also I installed the carb and set the idle to around 600 rpm. I also balanced the idle mix screws with a vacuum gauge as well when I put it in.

Again just giving that info for reference. Truck has been driving great up until the day after the details in my first post.

[i82much]

Definitely check your float level first and see if it can hold the fuel level steady. If that needle valve stays open, your carb will pump raw fuel into the engine.

Also, if that fails, check your vacuum lines, especially your PCV.

[geezer#99]

PIcs of your motor!
Air cleaner off would be nice.

Slight chance you got a bad batch of gas too.

[C1ph3r]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

PIcs of your motor!
Air cleaner off would be nice.

Slight chance you got a bad batch of gas too.

The motor is an old mess. But yeah. I'll get a pic of the motor for ya.

[chevytruckguy70]

A couple weeks ago I had the same issue and found the choke not operating correctly. It was staying closed. Mine isn't electric but you could have the same problem. Check your linkages for correct connection or binding.

[davepl]

Make sure the choke pulloff (vacuum assembly that pull the choke open about 1/8" as soon as it fires) is working correctly and adjusted correctly per the shop manual. You have no hope of it running properly when cold if that's not set up correctly.

If it's too far open it'll just die. If it's too closed or not working, it'll lug and buck and smoke and so on, basically running super-rich.

Start with the factory shop manual dimensions, then have someone start the truck while you're underhood. As soon as it fires try opening and closing the choke door a little (like the thickness of a pencil lead) to get the best operation, and then try to bend the linkage to get that setting automatically.

But just check it before going crazy, you could well have some other problem entirely.

[C1ph3r]

Originally Posted by chevytruckguy70

A couple weeks ago I had the same issue and found the choke not operating correctly. It was staying closed. Mine isn't electric but you could have the same problem. Check your linkages for correct connection or binding.

Its been really warm here. But funny you say that when it started cooling off I decided to check it and the choke linkage was screwed up. I fixed that now it works like a champ.

Originally Posted by davepl

Make sure the choke pulloff (vacuum assembly that pull the choke open about 1/8" as soon as it fires) is working correctly and adjusted correctly per the shop manual. You have no hope of it running properly when cold if that's not set up correctly.

If it's too far open it'll just die. If it's too closed or not working, it'll lug and buck and smoke and so on, basically running super-rich.

Start with the factory shop manual dimensions, then have someone start the truck while you're underhood. As soon as it fires try opening and closing the choke door a little (like the thickness of a pencil lead) to get the best operation, and then try to bend the linkage to get that setting automatically.

But just check it before going crazy, you could well have some other problem entirely.

no vacuum on my choke. its electric. and working great.

[C1ph3r]

so i cleaned up my plugs and he fired right up. pulled out of the garage and was stumbleing a little. turned it around in the street pulled back up the drive and now no smoke or terrible idle.

Originally Posted by geezer#99

You got pics??

Could be crap in the needle/seat.

Rich idle can be lack of timing and cranking up the idle on the carb to get it to idle.

What's your initial timing?

warmed it up and checked timing. 4 degrees on the nose at temperature. I believe idle was around 550-600 IIRC. And that matched up with the specs i found.

Originally Posted by i82much

Definitely check your float level first and see if it can hold the fuel level steady. If that needle valve stays open, your carb will pump raw fuel into the engine.

Also, if that fails, check your vacuum lines, especially your PCV.

I am a carb newb. no idea how to check the float level with the carb installed. vacuum lines all check out good.

Originally Posted by geezer#99

PIcs of your motor!
Air cleaner off would be nice.

Slight chance you got a bad batch of gas too.

Here are some pics. Plugs and engine.

[C1ph3r]

Alright. And now is when things get worse. I think I may have a bad head gasket. I shoudl rename this thread to "help me fix my busted old ride"

Here is a video to show why I think I have a bad head gasket. looks like there is a build up of liquid just under the rear most plug and this is the area I am getting what looks to be steam.

dont know how to embed a youtube video. so here is a link.

video link

[davepl]

Originally Posted by C1ph3r

no vacuum on my choke. its electric. and working great.

Well that's your problem then.

How do you expect the engine to run with a closed choke? It can't. This is a vital part of the cold-start system. I bet you have it...

[geezer#99]

Too high up for head gasket.
Look in the rad when it's idling and look for bubbles. That's how to tell if it's a head gasket.

Also your coolant temp sensor is right there. Could be leaking a bit. Or a valve cover gasket leaking.

Plugs aren't too bad. Gapped a bit too much though. Set them at .045.

[C1ph3r]

Originally Posted by davepl

Well that's your problem then.

How do you expect the engine to run with a closed choke? It can't. This is a vital part of the cold-start system. I bet you have it...

Sorry? It's an electric choke. There are no vacuum connections for it. Its opening and closing perfectly.

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Too high up for head gasket.
Look in the rad when it's idling and look for bubbles. That's how to tell if it's a head gasket.

Also your coolant temp sensor is right there. Could be leaking a bit. Or a valve cover gasket leaking.

Plugs aren't too bad. Gapped a bit too much though. Set them at .045.

well thats promising. i was thinking it could have been seeping out from that seem there just under the spark plug. I will take a look at the temp sensor as well. and re-torque my valve cover bolts. they are new aluminum covers with a new felpro metal core/rubber gasket.

they are gapped at .045 but I will check them again.

[C1ph3r]

Originally Posted by davepl

Well that's your problem then.

How do you expect the engine to run with a closed choke? It can't. This is a vital part of the cold-start system. I bet you have it...

Dude I'm sorry. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm so frustrated and freaking out at the moment. Yes the vacuum is hooked up to the diaphragm for the choke. Again my apologies.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by C1ph3r

Dude I'm sorry. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm so frustrated and freaking out at the moment. Yes the vacuum is hooked up to the diaphragm for the choke. Again my apologies.

No problem, I was worried for a minute maybe someone had removed it from the carb (I've seen them missing)... No harm, no foul!

Hope you sort it out! I know mine ran terrible because of this, and it sounded similar, but it was a long shot.