47-55.1 Starting a 52 Chevy 3100 Project.

[28TudorAZ]

Hi New to Forum. Just purchased a 52 Chevy and a 95 S10. I read everything on the s10 swap and that is the route we are going. This truck was owned by a guy since he was 16 and is now 43. Its in pretty rough shape but pretty rust free besides surface rust. He never really did anything with it besides drag it around with him. He finally gave up and sold the truck to my dad. My dad had a 52 Chevy when he was a teenager and wants another one at 65. I told him if he buys the parts I will put it together. We just brought home the S10 today. So far we have $3600 into both trucks. Now the fun begins. The plan is to redo everything under the frame and hood and inside the cab and put a 350/4spd auto. Leave the body as is but maybe spray some clear on it.

[mongocanfly]

welcome ...
looks like a great father/son project

[oldman3]

Yes welcome to the forum...Jim

[28TudorAZ]

Thanks. Should be really cool once its done. I will be doing most of the fabrication. I have done everything that he wants to do on his truck to my car except change out a frame but that is going to make it less work in my opinion. My goal is to have it running and driving within a year. I will be heading over this weekend to get the S10 pulled apart. The guy we bought the truck from lives within a mile from me. Cant we to see his face when I pull it up in his driveway.

[joedoh]

nice start! that s10has a blazer headlight swap, thats the best looking front end in my opinion. not that you are keeping it.


I tell everyone, mounting the body, especially with all the plans for mounts that exist, is the easiest part. its the rest, the wiring and the brakes and the pedals and the engine and the trans and the driveshaft and the fuel tank and the fuel lines and the seat and the column... thats where you will spend the time. gird your loins! we are here to help!

[28TudorAZ]

Originally Posted by joedoh

nice start! that s10has a blazer headlight swap, thats the best looking front end in my opinion. not that you are keeping it.


I tell everyone, mounting the body, especially with all the plans for mounts that exist, is the easiest part. its the rest, the wiring and the brakes and the pedals and the engine and the trans and the driveshaft and the fuel tank and the fuel lines and the seat and the column... thats where you will spend the time. gird your loins! we are here to help!

We felt bad tearing apart of perfectly good truck. Well not really. My dad really liked the smooth ride of it though. I probably could have winged it with the fabrication but why when someone has done all the hard work of measuring it for you. I read through your thread on your truck. Looking really good. I like how you did the paint. Gives me some ideas. I planned on doing the interior really nice as well. I probably will be on the same timeline as you. Your at 8 months and almost done. You have some major metal working skills by the way. I luckily will not have to do so much since we are not retaining the 4.3 and my dad wants to go carbureted 350/700R4. I was leaning towards LS. He doesn't like all the electronic stuff. We still have some time though and I might be able to get it done cheaper with the LS stuff since we would only need a motor and convince him but probably not. I am fine with either way.


Hopefully this weekend we can get the S10 stripped to the frame and get the 52 cab off the old frame. Anyone know any reason to retain any of the body brackets and running boards brackets off the old frame? Or is it better to just make new ones?

[8man]

Great start, you are way ahead if there are no rust outs to cut out and replace. Have fun with the build.

[MARTINSR]

But before you start, ask yourself what are your expectations on driving this truck. What will you be using it for? If it's daily driver down the freeway at 70, do the frame "swap." If it's towing a boat through the mountains, do the frame "swap."

But if this is going to be a Sunday cruiser or a local driver around city streets and hitting the freeway every once in a while REALLY think about that frame "Swap."

I say "swap" because all a frame swap does is swap the money, time, and work from one frame to another. The stock frame under your truck will do everything you need in the Sunday cruiser or local driver I mention. There are front crossmember kits if you want an IRS that is MUCH easier than stuffing that S-10 frame under there.
Or depending on how much you will drive it, a V8 stuffed in there or a hot six with the stock suspension would work just fine too.

Just tossing it out there, you deserve to have the truck you want, if that's a late model frame so you can do things I mention like flying down the freeway everday, go for it. But I have seen WAY too many of these trucks be sold undone because the frame "swap" is a bunch of work and people were under the impression it's a weekend project.

Just something to think about.

Brian

[MARTINSR]

And guys please don't attack me for my last post. We ALL should give advice like this for anything someone wants to do like a top chop or sandblasting sheetmetal and all the things that can ruin stuff for someone.

I just tossed an idea out to think about it, that's all. To some people the S-10 frame is the perfect solution, I am just tossing it out there so he makes sure it IS what he is after.

Brian

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by 28TudorAZ

Your at 8 months and almost done. You have some major metal working skills by the way... Anyone know any reason to retain any of the body brackets and running boards brackets off the old frame? Or is it better to just make new ones?

hey thanks. I would have been done but rust and other OT projects always seem to bite the calendar.

I reuse the running board mounts (cut them down and weld them to the frame) but other guys have made really sharp and functional mounts from tube. one thing about reusing is you will have a hard time putting the third one on, it is right at the front leaf perch. I build a hanger from strap to the fender/running board attachment and it works great.

I have done a few, check out my user profile for the photo galleries of the others.

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

I am just tossing it out there so he makes sure it IS what he is after.

Originally Posted by 28TudorAZ

I read everything on the s10 swap and that is the route we are going.

it seemed pretty clear. it was the third sentence in his very first post.

[MARTINSR]

It doesn't hurt to clarify things, a little more info is always valuable.

Brian

[Jesse Z]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

To some people the S-10 frame is the perfect solution, I am just tossing it out there so he makes sure it IS what he is after.

Brian

To quote Lowrider magazine: "There are s10s, and then there's everything else."

A whole generation grew up with S10s as THE status vehicle de jour. It's natural that when this group matures and branches into other hot rodding disciplines they still feel comfy with the S10 format - even if it's not really the best means to the end. Hot rod builders can be sheep; in some article somewhere, somebody had an awesome AD on S10 and soon every reader in the country has to have that combo. I can go through Ebay and count the botched-up AD trucks on S10 frames; they're easy to spot, with the super-shallow beds, 3-inch thick spacers to get the track out where it should be, and wheels not centered in the wells. I'd say one in 10 gets it right, mostly because - as the OP said - they " read everything on the s10 swap," meaning they all read the same online threads and they all do it exactly the same - even if it's wrong.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by Jesse Z

To quote Lowrider magazine: "There are s10s, and then there's everything else."

A whole generation grew up with S10s as THE status vehicle de jour. It's natural that when this group matures and branches into other hot rodding disciplines they still feel comfy with the S10 format - even if it's not really the best means to the end. Hot rod builders can be sheep; in some article somewhere, somebody had an awesome AD on S10 and soon every reader in the country has to have that combo. I can go through Ebay and count the botched-up AD trucks on S10 frames; they're easy to spot, with the super-shallow beds, 3-inch thick spacers to get the track out where it should be, and wheels not centered in the wells. I'd say one in 10 gets it right, mostly because - as the OP said - they " read everything on the s10 swap," meaning they all read the same online threads and they all do it exactly the same - even if it's wrong.

well, at least you didnt need a new keyboard after typing a post like brian does, he has to wear out the "I" key twice a week.

but there are a fair amount of guys who get it right, and if anyone read the sticky on the top of this forum they have a better chance than most.

[MARTINSR]

All I know is I have been thanked many times over the years for bringing something up that the OP hadn't thought of regarding many different topics over the years.

Sometimes WE need to be told things WE weren't even aware of! I know I have had my ass saved many times with someone walking up at work or something and pointing out something to me that I didn't even ask about.

WE all too often see what WE want to see.

Why, because WE are human.

Brian

[28TudorAZ]

I already have a dad and the S10 frame idea was his idea but thanks for the suggestions as I have already weighed all of our options. There must be a reason why so many do this swap. Money, time, availability of parts, and engineering dictated our direction. The money part, the S10 frame will be free if not gaining a few dollars once we sell all the parts and the old frame from the 52. To upgrade the old frame it would need to be boxed, front end replaced(big money) and re-engineered, rear end rebuilt. All of this is I would guess would be in the $4000 range and a lot more time. The engineering part with the front end can get tricky and mistakes can happened very easily there as well. I figure the time put in will actually be shorter and cheaper when it comes to all of that. The S10 frame has been engineered and tested for many years. As far as finishing the project I have seen plenty of completely stock projects stall as well so that is not a very valid argument. I have a welder, plasma cutter, blast cabinet, and lots of tools. I'm not skeered. The 28 Tudor in my avatar has been through all of this. I did everything down to the re-wiring and had to modify most parts to make them fit as you cant really buy anything for a custom car. It took me about a year.

[28TudorAZ]

Originally Posted by joedoh

but there are a fair amount of guys who get it right, and if anyone read the sticky on the top of this forum they have a better chance than most.

I read that sticky after we bought the truck but very helpful...It will definitely cut down on trying to come up with engineering ideas.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by 28TudorAZ

I already have a dad and the S10 frame idea was his idea but thanks for the suggestions as I have already weighed all of our options. There must be a reason why so many do this swap. Money, time, availability of parts, and engineering dictated our direction. The money part, the S10 frame will be free if not gaining a few dollars once we sell all the parts and the old frame from the 52. To upgrade the old frame it would need to be boxed, front end replaced(big money) and re-engineered, rear end rebuilt. All of this is I would guess would be in the $4000 range and a lot more time. The engineering part with the front end can get tricky and mistakes can happened very easily there as well. I figure the time put in will actually be shorter and cheaper when it comes to all of that. The S10 frame has been engineered and tested for many years. As far as finishing the project I have seen plenty of completely stock projects stall as well so that is not a very valid argument. I have a welder, plasma cutter, blast cabinet, and lots of tools. I'm not skeered. The 28 Tudor in my avatar has been through all of this. I did everything down to the re-wiring and had to modify most parts to make them fit as you cant really buy anything for a custom car. It took me about a year.

Understand that the most important question I asked is "what are your expectations of the truck?"

If it's rolling to the cruise night in town on Saturday nights and that sort of thing the S-10 frame is WAY more than you need, you know what I mean? That's my biggest question when someone is building a project car or truck, what are you going to use it for? I know in my case, I literally could drive a stock Model T every day, and in fact, a new Corvette would be a horrible waste on me, as 99% of it's miles would be BORING at 40 mph on city streets. Understand where I am going here?

That is the most important question, I wasn't questioning your skills. I have asked these questions before and guys have re-thought their plans. If no one asks them, an awful lot of money and work can be wasted.

Brian

[28TudorAZ]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

Understand that the most important question I asked is "what are your expectations of the truck?"

If it's rolling to the cruise night in town on Saturday nights and that sort of thing the S-10 frame is WAY more than you need, you know what I mean? That's my biggest question when someone is building a project car or truck, what are you going to use it for? I know in my case, I literally could drive a stock Model T every day, and in fact, a new Corvette would be a horrible waste on me, as 99% of it's miles would be BORING at 40 mph on city streets. Understand where I am going here?

That is the most important question, I wasn't questioning your skills. I have asked these questions before and guys have re-thought their plans. If no one asks them, an awful lot of money and work can be wasted.

Brian

We want a good driver. If it drives like crap my dad will use it for tinkering around the neighborhood every couple weeks. He already has a 24 Bucket T for that.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by 28TudorAZ

I already have a dad and the S10 frame idea was his idea but thanks for the suggestions as I have already weighed all of our options. There must be a reason why so many do this swap. Money, time, availability of parts, and engineering dictated our direction. The money part, the S10 frame will be free if not gaining a few dollars once we sell all the parts and the old frame from the 52. To upgrade the old frame it would need to be boxed, front end replaced(big money) and re-engineered, rear end rebuilt. All of this is I would guess would be in the $4000 range and a lot more time. The engineering part with the front end can get tricky and mistakes can happened very easily there as well. I figure the time put in will actually be shorter and cheaper when it comes to all of that. The S10 frame has been engineered and tested for many years. As far as finishing the project I have seen plenty of completely stock projects stall as well so that is not a very valid argument. I have a welder, plasma cutter, blast cabinet, and lots of tools. I'm not skeered. The 28 Tudor in my avatar has been through all of this. I did everything down to the re-wiring and had to modify most parts to make them fit as you cant really buy anything for a custom car. It took me about a year.

this is a lucid and well thought argument. if you buy an s10 frame you have highway gearing, a chassis that will take a small block without issue, power steering, brake lines, brake booster, disc front brakes, fuel tank, fuel lines, even a harness and steering column if you repurpose the parts. you also have a good amount of stuff to sell.

with a IFS swap, you have IFS, disc brakes, and.... nothing. guys can get the price of the IFS down to 1000-1200 bucks (and then compalin about the quality or spend on upgrades) but thats still all you have. still need a rear end, a booster, a gas pedal, motor mounts, literally everything but the IFS.

the time isnt spent in mounting the body. the time (and the money!) is spent in everything else.


so if you can put up with the guys who havent driven their trucks in 30 years (still looking for the perfect combination of parts maybe) and listen to the guys who have built a really nice one (skymangs comes to mind, Tikal48 has a gorgeous s10 based truck, there are even more in the project section) and most of all ignore the "slam it together" guys jesse Z is talking about, you will come out alright.


brian, never in history has someone spent so much effort telling other people how they should/could build their trucks and spent so little time building his own. physician, heal thyself!

[MARTINSR]

Joe, why is this so hard to understand? First off, I drive every single day, EVERY-SINGLE-DAY a 1959 Rambler with a flathead motor, tiny drum brakes that don't even have self adjusters (that was an option) a three speed without sycros and the most archaic IFS ever. And yes my truck is going to once again be a daily driver and I will do so without changing the frame.

I toss out this question when ever someone talks about the S-10. I toss it out there and leave it at that. Some new guy comes in and asks about the S-10 frame and I toss out this simple question, "What are your expectations" and I am some how evil?

I know that I had listened to people and did a Camaro frame clip on my truck. One day I drove a guys dropped I beam axle truck at work and I was blown away at how nice it drove, that day I put my clipped frame up for sale and got a stocker.

Back 10 years ago I was driving a stone stock 65 Skylark and THOUGHT I needed all the modern amenities and sold it when I bought a Ford SHO. I drove that for a few years and found it wasn't fun and got the Rambler. I made a few mistakes thinking I HAD TO have that modern car, and I was mistaken.

I just toss this out there for guys. I don't say YOU ARE WRONG, I don't say that and I don't think that, I simply toss this out so guys can see another way to look at it and I am evil?

Yep, I am not a talker, I live it, I drive that 1959 Rambler EVERY-SINGLE-DAY in the SF bay area.

Brian

[joedoh]

what does a rambler have to do with a pickup? what does the mild climate of SF Bay have to do with literally anywhere else in the world?

[MARTINSR]

Joeeeeeeeeeeee, and that's why I ask the question "What are your expectations?" Why is this so hard to accept, that I can ask that simple question?

Would it help if I was driving a 59 Chevy pickup every day instead of the Rambler? The point is the same, I drive EVERY SINGLE DAY a vintage car with tiny drum brakes, oh, and ALL THE HORRORS a single reservoir master cyl.

Oh, and Joe, I am moving to Boise Idaho in a few years and my truck will be my daily driver! And if it's not done by then, my Rambler will be my daily driver. This really isn't a big mystery, I mean 60 years ago in Boise Idaho they didn't have S-10s to drive. LOLOL

Brian

[MARTINSR]

Guess I'll go out and work on my truck, I don't want to offend anyone.

Brian

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

Joeeeeeeeeeeee, and that's why I ask the question "What are your expectations?" Why is this so hard to accept, that I can ask that simple question?

Would it help if I was driving a 59 Chevy pickup every day instead of the Rambler? The point is the same, I drive EVERY SINGLE DAY a vintage car with tiny drum brakes, oh, and ALL THE HORRORS a single reservoir master cyl.

Oh, and Joe, I am moving to Boise Idaho in a few years and my truck will be my daily driver! And if it's not done by then, my Rambler will be my daily driver. This really isn't a big mystery, I mean 60 years ago in Boise Idaho they didn't have S-10s to drive. LOLOL

Brian

what are you even talking about? nobody said anything about drum brakes or you being evil?

I said you talk about yourself a lot. thanks for making that case for me. I said you suggest to other people how to build their truck while yours is incomplete for the last 30 years.

I hope driving an original rambler in the mircocosmos of the bay area (good roads, fine weather) translates to boise idaho, but it still doesnt translate to finishing a project AD truck. you havent done that yet, no one has ever built a reputation on what they are "gonna" do.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by joedoh

what are you even talking about? nobody said anything about drum brakes or you being evil?

I said you talk about yourself a lot. thanks for making that case for me. I said you suggest to other people how to build their truck while yours is incomplete for the last 30 years.

I hope driving an original rambler in the mircocosmos of the bay area (good roads, fine weather) translates to boise idaho, but it still doesnt translate to finishing a project AD truck. you havent done that yet, no one has ever built a reputation on what they are "gonna" do.

So I drove it for many years and it's been apart for many years. LOL Glad you like to talk about me too so then I can talk about myself without feeling you don't want to hear it. LOL

Brian