Paint - Single Stage or Double Stage - clear coat ??

[KIC]

So I have a decision to make and I keep getting different opinions. I need to paint my Burb. Not looking for (nor can I afford) a Pebble Beach Paint job. Just a nice driver.

The heated debate is whether to go single stage or double stage with clear coat. Clear coats do take a beating in the Arizona sun. I need to make a decision ... what's the consensus out there ? I will be painting to match original ..

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1960+Suburban

[mongocanfly]

Me personal...I like single stage....are you painting yourself or having a shop do it?

[nsb29]

Single stage easier to touch up and repair no clearcoat peeling southern urethane is good but I like ppg concept but mooor money

[Foot Stomper]

Don't confuse single stage with acrylic enamel which is old technology single stage that faded and patina'd. The single stage I think you are considering is polyurethane and is a very robust coating that resists fade, abrassion and stays shiny for years! It's downside is that it is restricted to solid colors for the most part (but not exclusively). A good painter who knows how to paint can produce a result most wouldn't know wasn't base coat/clear coat!

[nsb29]

Personally the single stage urethane non metallic once it has been cut and buffed has way more depth and reflection than the clearcoat it is also available in metallics but not as easy to work with or touch upIf you’re going to be driving and using this truck I would go with single stage urethane nonmetallic

[sick472]

I have used a basecoat/clear, acrylic enamel single and the urethane single stage (I'm a novice at best when it comes to painting with only 4 vihicles under my belt). The acrylic and urethane act very similar with respect to prep, spraying, and fixes. Runs can be lightly sanded out and if you sand through the paint to the primer, that area can be resprayed and wetsanded and polished back out. The base coat portion of the base/clear method acts the same way with respect to fixes, but without the extra effort in making it shine after repsray. The clear coat is where the shine comes in. The runs in the clear can be fixed in a like fashion.

There is alot less work in the single stages because, if prepped and sprayed well, once the paint is sprayed on...your done. The base/clear project I did required wetsanding after the base and after the clear followed by a fair amount of buffing. Maybe I did it wrong or maybe the process has changed since the late 80's.

I like the the single stages because there is less elbow grease so long as you are not after the "deep" and/or metalic aspects that the base/clear process can yield. I beleive the base/clear process is less forgiving when it comes to fixing screw-ups, but the single stages are less work given you can prep accordingly and spray the paint on evenly and without runs.

Side Note: I have read that the urethanes can be worse when it come to the effects of breathing it. All paints are bad to breath, but the urethanes seem to have a worse reputation when you ask the weeser after the fact. So, any way you go, expect to get the proper respirators and ventilation in the shop.

[Flying Hamster]

Also depends on the color and the "look" you are going for. A BC/CC will get the white highlights/reflections out in the sun (see modern new cars), whereas the single stage is going to look like an old truck did when new.

[Foot Stomper]

Originally Posted by Flying Hamster

A BC/CC will get the white highlights/reflections out in the sun (see modern new cars)

Goes without saying that a BC/CC paint system can have xerilics and/or pearls added to either the base and/or the clear. It's obviously not what KIC was gunning for.

Old trucks with like new paint have a tremendous amount of street appeal for lots of "old truck dudes".

[nsb29]

My 65 is single stage PPG concept everybody asked me how many coats of clear have you got on it because of the depth and reflection there is no clear it was color sanded and buffed basecoat clearcoat cars to me have no reflection just orange peel lol even after the clear has been sanded and buffed you still see the texture of the basecoat but if you’re doing “metallic go bc/cc

[jfnar]

I painted a '64 ten or twelve years ago with acrylic enamel and it turned out pretty good for a first paint job. I hope to be painting my '68 in a few months so I've been doing some reading on the topic. Like the OP, I don't need a show quality paint job, just a good driver. I plan to use single stage urethane in a solid (non metallic) color. My thoughts are to avoid the bc/cc because I don't want to do the color sanding and buffing and I'm scared by the vehicles I've seen with peeling cc. I also want to avoid the metallics because I'll be painting in pieces over a period of time and I've read that metallics need to be painted all at once or the pieces won't match. Just seems like single stage non metallic is the best choice for an amateur.

[nsb29]

You don’t have to sand ether one thay gust look better if you do s/s or bc/cc

[KIC]

Wow.. thanks guys for the input. The learning curve just accelerated for me.

To answer the question on who is painting it, I have a friend who has painted in the past and is currently painting his 65, I also have a retired painter who gave a pretty good "quote" on painting it, but he likes the clear coat option.. I am also not going with any glitter or fancy shine, just a basic stock looking two tone color to match original paint scheme

I need to get this painted ASAP as my dream/goal is to be able to take my 89 year old father for rides and a few small car shows and his health isn't the best.

Thanks guys you rock

[scott123]

I'm pretty much in the same boat.

I have painted a few over the years. In the late 80's/early 90's it was acrylic enamel.

Then a few with the single stage acrylic urethanes.

I have two projects on going right now. A 69 truck that is really close to final paint.

It was a father/son project to be his first ride at 16. We used a single stage urethane inside the cab and the jamb areas.

I have a buddy who does top end work and insists it should have been BC/CC from the start, but suggests I transition tape from here and use BC/CC for the outsides of the truck.

It will be a 'used for whatever' truck. I can't see spending $$$$$ for a paint job and then head thru the bushes and mud when hunting, fishing, etc. etc..

I'm leaning toward the single stage urethanes for the truck and then paying a pro for the blazer.

Then the next question is which single stage to choose?

S

[nsb29]

Every one will have a different answer on this one shopline is cheap spi is good ppg concept is better but there is a big difference in price the lower end paint has less pigment and less reduction the higher end paint has more pigment so it covers better and more reduction so it goes further as a rule the better paint holds up longer there are a lot manufactures and even more options LOL

[scott123]

Agreed.

There are so many options.

I sprayed a single stage Summit brand once and it went down as well as it possible could. It was a daily/hunting truck so the expectations were not that high. We sanded the body down with 180 on a DA. Fixed a couple spots here and there. Went over it again with 220. Did some guide work and then finished with a wet 320. The Summit paint turned out really well. I was happy and he was happy.

When my expectations (my 72 K5) get higher I will either upgrade the paint choice or more than likely hire a pro.

The expectations can factor in with the cost vs. quality debate as well.

S

[mongocanfly]

im using Sherwin Williams single stage on my truck....it sprays really well...

[BAM55]

I would not say the single stage or base coat clear is easier to spray. They are the same its just with base coat you spray clear separately. I can only think of one reason to use single or base coat or vise versa, that is metallic vs. non metallic. If you are doing a solid color single stage is a great way to go, but single stage metallic is a pain to get the metallic to lay down correctly and you can forget about touch ups being easy on a single stage metallic. Imo solid colors could be either single stage or base coat / clear coat (You can also clear over single stage to add more gloss) but metallic is way easier with base coat clear.

Spraying is the easiest part of the paint job, if your technique is decent, it really does not matter what you are shooting as far as base coat / clear or single stage. Even then runs and trash issues can be fixed. The hardest part of getting a nice paint job is the bodywork and prep.

As far as blending this is where base coat clear shines imo, touch up are easier also. Here is a panel I had to blend after I made changes to the firewall.

[sick472]

Originally Posted by scott123

Then the next question is which single stage to choose?

S

I used Nason S/S urethane (white car with alot of black striping) and liked the results very much. It was my second full car paint job. The first was acrylic enamel which I would say sprayed just as well, but the urethane should resist oxidation better.

[scott123]

Originally Posted by sick472

I used Nason S/S urethane (white car with alot of black striping) and liked the results very much. It was my second full car paint job. The first was acrylic enamel which I would say sprayed just as well, but the urethane should resist oxidation better.

Two things, the "he who has no oil" that is killer. It may not be in the King James version but it should be in the gear head version. Awesome quote.

Second, I used the Nason paint a long time ago. I painted my dad's 72 white and it went down really well. It had one section that flattened out and did not look good at all. It was on part of the door to the bed.

We sanded and buffed and it stood out. We sanded and re-pained and it blended well and looked good afterwards.

It was much more me than the paint.

I used the same thing for a box van and it worked well.

It worked for me.

S

[sick472]

I, too, had a section that needed touchd up due to some clown backing into me. I took it to a classic car body man and he fixed the dent and blended in the white paint nicely. You can't tell it was there and there was at least a couple square feet of repainted surface. If anything the patch was better than the orifinal paint I laid down becuase of the required re-sanding and buffing...I never buffed it out after the original paint job...there was no real need as it looked very good to me. Some s/s nay-sayers will claim that repairs and blending the urethanes and arcylic enamels is not likely, but I have found at least two poeple who can... You and my rural Missouri bodyman.

I have no experience with metalics which has its difficulties to begin with reagardles of paint type.

As far as my quote, I can not take credit for it. I co-working turned me on to it, so credit goes to wherever he heard it...I'm glad you got a kick out of it!

[blazer2007]

is the urethane that bad that people make it out to be as in breathing it or getting on your skin etc. I know all paint is bad and good masks and safety equipment is a must but they make it sound so bad compared to acrylic enamel

[scott123]

I work in the chemical/pharmaceutical industry so I preach personal protective equipment daily.

Any chemical, dust or mist you breathe is dangerous. Mostly because we no know way more than we did in years past. That goes for absorption thru the skin as well.

Our training card, go to topic, is asbestos. Once upon a time it was the greatest thing in industry. Its uses were limitless. It has been proven that its makers knew of the dangers, not to the effect we see today, but they identified issues. The kicker is that the general public did not know until thousands upon thousands died.

Urethane paint, just like any other chemical, may very well be the next asbestos.

So like you suggested wear the proper PPE. Read the label and do what it says and if you go above and beyond, all the more better.

Not trying to be the grim reaper. My Pops worked with asbestos in the 50's and 60's. My father-in-law worked in a mine for years. They both died horrible deaths from pretty much trying to make a living.

I end my training sessions with "I will get down off my high horse if you will wear proper PPE".

Maybe more than you asked, but I consider them all hazardous to my health.

Scott

[OL SKOOL]

How long before you can wet sand and buff urethane single stage?

[scott123]

Hopefully an expert or much more knowledgeable person will post.

I think it will be determined by the brand/manufacturer of the paint.

I did the white Nason paint a few days/maybe a week later.

I'm not sure if that fits in the manufacturer's time table or not.

Scott

[blazer2007]

How would you rate the 3 types of paint for hazard , acrylic enamel ,urethane and bc cc like on a scale from 1-10 ?