6" LIFT KIT OPTIONS "OFF ROAD DESIGN" Vs SKYJACKER

[MDFarms]

Opions wanted Please

Has anyone used "Off Road Design" lift kits on their K10 Short Bed

I ordered a Skyjack Soft Ride 6" lift "One size fits all" but then started reading up on the above company. Custom ordered springs for your truck taking into consideration bumpers, weight, travel etc. I like that they offer the heavier shackles and other options.

Anyone try this kit?

[52napco]

The ORD/Alcan springs are the best money you can spend..At 6" you'll need a front sway bar and the Bilstein 5100 shocks. The ride difference and quality is amazing..

[MDFarms]

I think I may go with Off Road Design! Not a fan of removing stock rear hangar though as I like the OEM look BUT like a little tire clearance. Everything I'm reading though tells me I should go this route besides pocket book! But what the heck you only go around one time in this life and I will probably never build another!

[Richard]

The difference between springs from Alcan, Atlas or Deaver and "kit" springs is somewhat hard to believe. Yes they cost more. It is a no brainer if you are willing to spend the money and want a nicer ride to drive the truck Not a fan of the ORD shackle flip myself. While many rock crawler guys like it. Have no idea why ORD does not offer a rear spring with over 4" of lift. Easy enough to use the tension shackle, which I personally believe is more stable on highway and handles loads better. The stock style tension shackle design combined with a custom higher arch spring and the right shackle can add 1" to 2" more droop than the compression shackle. They offer front springs at 6" and over. Using a 6" lift front spring the shackle end will probably hit the frame before going flat if using stock length shackles. You can contact any of the manufactures directly to get rear springs over 4".

[special-K]

I prefer Tuff Country EZ-Rides for off the shelf and reasonably priced quality springs. The difference between those and the 'most' money you can spend is negligible to this old butt that has ridden in the saddle of K/20s for so long. The improvement over stock is night and day

[MDFarms]

Originally Posted by Richard

The difference between springs from Alcan, Atlas or Deaver and "kit" springs is somewhat hard to believe. Yes they cost more. It is a no brainer if you are willing to spend the money and want a nicer ride to drive the truck Not a fan of the ORD shackle flip myself. While many rock crawler guys like it. Have no idea why ORD does not offer a rear spring with over 4" of lift. Easy enough to use the tension shackle, which I personally believe is more stable on highway and handles loads better. The stock style tension shackle design combined with a custom higher arch spring and the right shackle can add 1" to 2" more droop than the compression shackle. They offer front springs at 6" and over. Using a 6" lift front spring the shackle end will probably hit the frame before going flat if using stock length shackles. You can contact any of the manufactures directly to get rear springs over 4".

Thank you for your response!

I DO NOT want a shackle flip either so I also contacted Alcan and they will build a True 5" spring and quoted me on these 5" springs.

I'm not sure why ORD would not offer this 5" set up when the spring manufacturer will build it? Not doubting/questioning their reasons just curious why they do not offer/recommend? Will call and ask for verification. I want to use the bushings and front HD hangers and other products.

Whats the purpose of the ORD "Extended shock mount"?

Also does the shackle flip have anything to do with axle location in wheel well? I gave Alcan my rear spring measurments with between front to center and center to rear total 52" rear springs when measuring arch.

Does the shackle flip help or affect ride? Help the angle of the driveline?

I will not be doing any extreme off road outside of heading to dunes for a weekend and mostly just joy rides aroumd town. Want the ride they offer "IF" it rides so much better than a "one spring does all" that you receive from the major lift companies meaning, Skyjacker, Super lift, Rough Country etc.

To be clear I will be going with ORD in some fashion but I want to use the 5" springs Alcan offered me. I do not want to remove my factory riveted spring mounts in rear and I do not want the look of the shackle flip.

In the end this is my first TOTAL FRAME UP build and like most probably over thinking everything and yes I have used Skyjacker and Superlift in past but as I get older and hearing all my friends complaining on a lifted Short Bed ride I wanted to try and find a solution to take it to the next level outside of coil overs which are cool but change the look beyond my desires.

Why were here whats the opionion on BEHIND SEAT TANK REMOVAL? I will mock up and keep fill spout "Dummy" in original tank fill spot. Any kits better than others? I do not want the LED Tailights so the hidden fill will not be an option. Will be probably in bed wit flush mount cap.

Looking forward to your responses its greatly appreciated! I have learned more in last few days than I ever imangined and I have had several lifted trucks over the years.

[gmc684x4]

Several people on here liked alcan spring for a smoother ride due to them using a thiner spring
I like how they double wrap spring eyes so if you break a leaf you can limp home

I am using a suburban tank plan on welding in a actual gas door on the bedside seen several threads guys talk about how slow to fill with marker/tailight fill setups
Weld on a newer fuel cell ring to be able to use the ls truck fuel pump setup

[52napco]

Originally Posted by special-K

I prefer Tuff Country EZ-Rides for off the shelf and reasonably priced quality springs. The difference between those and the 'most' money you can spend is negligible to this old butt that has ridden in the saddle of K/20s for so long. The improvement over stock is night and day

I just removed a tuff country 4" soft ride from my 72 K5 and installed ALCAN springs and 5100 bilstein shocks...huge difference in ride quality IMO

[Richard]

A shackle flip will move the axle forward. Rear axle is already forward on these trucks. Does not help that. Believe the number one reason it is popular is- cheap 4" lift. Many use it to swap in junk yard 63"-64" Chevy springs. Cheap way to improve articulation and add lift. Shackle angle affects spring rate and how the spring sets, ie front low or level, affects the roll center, squat under power and axle wrap. lots of info online. If you are interested I suggest doing some research. The extended front shock mounts offered by ORD allow you to mount a shock in a vertical position on the front axle to give a 1to1 axle/shock movement. A longer shock is required as the more a shock is angled the less it moves compared to the wheels. Hope this helps. Edit- ORD makes a quality product. I have 7 boxes full of stuff from them in transit right now. Looking at my build thread you should know my opinion on tank relocation. I have rolled a 72, ended up on it's lid. Gas leaking in cab. Never again.

[MDFarms]

Originally Posted by Richard

A shackle flip will move the axle forward. Rear axle is already forward on these trucks. Does not help that. Believe the number one reason it is popular is- cheap 4" lift. Many use it to swap in junk yard 63"-64" Chevy springs. Cheap way to improve articulation and add lift. Shackle angle affects spring rate and how the spring sets, ie front low or level, affects the roll center, squat under power and axle wrap. lots of info online. If you are interested I suggest doing some research. The extended front shock mounts offered by ORD allow you to mount a shock in a vertical position on the front axle to give a 1to1 axle/shock movement. A longer shock is required as the more a shock is angled the less it moves compared to the wheels. Hope this helps. Edit- ORD makes a quality product. I have 7 boxes full of stuff from them in transit right now. Looking at my build thread you should know my opinion on tank relocation. I have rolled a 72, ended up on it's lid. Gas leaking in cab. Never again.

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I will call ORD Tuesday annd ask why I need the Shackle flip and new hangars. I would rather order the 5" springs directly from Alcan and see if I can use stock hangars? I have no issue with rest of parts and want axle to be centered.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by MDFarms

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I will call ORD Tuesday annd ask why I need the Shackle flip and new hangars. I would rather order the 5" springs directly from Alcan and see if I can use stock hangars? I have no issue with rest of parts and want axle to be centered.

Shackle flip and hangers are not necessary. If you want wheel centered in bottom of wheel well, center pin will need to be moved back about 1”. Wheel is centered at top of arch in stock configuration.

[MDFarms]

Originally Posted by Richard

Shackle flip and hangers are not necessary. If you want wheel centered in bottom of wheel well, center pin will need to be moved back about 1”. Wheel is centered at top of arch in stock configuration.

Richard would you think that Alcan or ORD should know where the center bolt needs to be for center on the spring? I dont want to guess and wanting it to be correct. I have no issue with asking ORD to order the 5" lift springs from Alcan as long as they work together to get it centered. It was about a $100 more per spring through ORD but they need to make their $$ as well. Still want to buy the 4.5 front sping hangars and Kevlar bushings from ORD along with steeeing arm or whatever else they suggest. I just do not wnat to remove stock hangars and do a shackle flip. I'm kinda weird on that detail but I like what I like. For me the in between height of 5" and 35" tires to me would be perfect.

Thanks for your input you have been very helpful and its been very appreciated!

[MDFarms]

Next Question........................ What is the best gear ratio for a 350 TBI, TH350 Trans (Brand new was in truck when purchased) with 35" Tires?

Truck has 3.07 on tags have not counted splines yet. Would like to be abble to run 70-75mph if traveling to show without it working to hard or to high of RPMS.

Or another tranny option? Do not want to get into moving mounts and cutting new whols in floor..

Thanks in advance.

[BASE]

Did you ever ask ORD about their reasoning for the shackle flip? I've got a 68 K10 I'm planning on lifting 4-5" as well and have been wondering about that. I'm guessing the springs ride a little nicer with the shackle flip, but that's a lot more work vs. just bolting in new springs. I'm tempted to try the shackle flip and leave the original springs in the back vs buying both.

I'm installing 4.10 gears in mine right now, planning on 35's as well. That's probably a little low for someone who is planning on a lot of 70+ mph hwy driving. 3.73 or 3.92 would be better for an automatic that's going to spend time cruising on the interstate. http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html is a neat calculator that will let you compare different tranny/xfer case/gear ratios etc, at different rpm's and speeds. It knows what all the common gear ratios are.

[MDFarms]

Originally Posted by BASE

Did you ever ask ORD about their reasoning for the shackle flip? I've got a 68 K10 I'm planning on lifting 4-5" as well and have been wondering about that. I'm guessing the springs ride a little nicer with the shackle flip, but that's a lot more work vs. just bolting in new springs. I'm tempted to try the shackle flip and leave the original springs in the back vs buying both.

I'm installing 4.10 gears in mine right now, planning on 35's as well. That's probably a little low for someone who is planning on a lot of 70+ mph hwy driving. 3.73 or 3.92 would be better for an automatic that's going to spend time cruising on the interstate. http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html is a neat calculator that will let you compare different tranny/xfer case/gear ratios etc, at different rpm's and speeds. It knows what all the common gear ratios are.

Thanks for reply and yes I called ORD on Tuesday and discussedthe shackle flip and he said anything over 3" you have to use shackle flip. I ask him if I can just order 5" springs directly from Alcan and he said No they would hit bottom of box and not ride as nice. I want to try the kit BUT for $2800 the difference between it and a skyjacker soft ride better be HUGE

[Richard]

Originally Posted by MDFarms

Thanks for reply and yes I called ORD on Tuesday and discussedthe shackle flip and he said anything over 3" you have to use shackle flip. I ask him if I can just order 5" springs directly from Alcan and he said No they would hit bottom of box and not ride as nice. I want to try the kit BUT for $2800 the difference between it and a skyjacker soft ride better be HUGE

There are several 16"+ leaf spring long travel kits for many trucks available and all use a tension style shackle. ORD seems to be focused on rock crawling. Just order some 5" springs direct and forget about it, will be fine. Your bump stop determines where axle stops not the box. Regarding axle location, If you want the axle centered in bottom of well move pin 1" back. Want centered with top of arch (stock) leave centered in spring pack. Unless you are wanting to move any hangers for longer springs I would suggest to leave the stock ones. Only reason I changed my front hangers is the military wrap Deavers would not fit in stock hangers. Ord sells an "extreme travel" shackle that is designed for use with a tension style shackle to increase droop. Not sure where they are going with the info. Maybe like some older companies, ie Holley. Trying to hold on to there older tech/investments?

Edit- I am using 5.13's with 37's on my truck with OD. If you want stock like performance use 4.10's with 35's. More freeway and do not care much about performance use 3.73. My truck originally has 3.73 and 31's. Revved a bit high on highway but fine for me. In my experience an old carbed 350/th350 will average 10-12 mpg empty or loaded od or not regardless of tire size and gearing.

[MDFarms]

Originally Posted by Richard

There are several 16"+ leaf spring long travel kits for many trucks available and all use a tension style shackle. ORD seems to be focused on rock crawling. Just order some 5" springs direct and forget about it, will be fine. Your bump stop determines where axle stops not the box. Regarding axle location, If you want the axle centered in bottom of well move pin 1" back. Want centered with top of arch (stock) leave centered in spring pack. Unless you are wanting to move any hangers for longer springs I would suggest to leave the stock ones. Only reason I changed my front hangers is the military wrap Deavers would not fit in stock hangers. Ord sells an "extreme travel" shackle that is designed for use with a tension style shackle to increase droop. Not sure where they are going with the info. Maybe like some older companies, ie Holley. Trying to hold on to there older tech/investments?

Edit- I am using 5.13's with 37's on my truck with OD. If you want stock like performance use 4.10's with 35's. More freeway and do not care much about performance use 3.73. My truck originally has 3.73 and 31's. Revved a bit high on highway but fine for me. In my experience an old carbed 350/th350 will average 10-12 mpg empty or loaded od or not regardless of tire size and gearing.

ALCAN V's ORD

Alcan said to measure front to center pin and then center pin to back hangar following spring (26 + 26 = 52) I ask him if that would keep it centered and he said it would? I ask him about moving back and he said not needed that he takes all arches into consideration to keep things aligned???

Now when speaking to ORD he seemed like he didnt want to explain or help with any of my questions, told me their (ORD) spring package although built by Alcan would not be the same as Alcan's and that he would use the "ORD" 4" spring and shackle flip only to achieve 5" of lift.

He said the Alcan spring will not ride as well as the "ORD Design" that Alcan builds for them?.

He also said I do have to use the shock extensions and they are one size fits all and I may have to cut then down? I ask how shock extensions mount or if he had pics he said go on website and see install instructions ( I couldnt find the instructions on the website) I Can't imagine having to cut and fabercate those as I feel thet should be done to fit that lift.

To be honest he acted as if he didnt want to explain to me why Alcan's 5" option would not work and why his was better other than Alcan will bottom out on spring hanger or box?

I ask him if I still went with his set up could I get them paint free so I could powder coat with frame and he said NO thats not an option. I said Alcan gave that option and he said I would have to tear down blast and paint individually.

I had impression he wanted to sell the "whole kit" so I said would you work with me and sell me Alcan's 5" springs with your components minus axle flip and he said NO.

I told him all I was trying to do is use my original hangars and get a better ride and he had no options other than to use his 3" spring which I would not need a shackle flip but 3" is not enough.

He has almost pushed me away from using the "ORD" set up and has me nervous about using Alcan alone as he said they will not hold up or get same ride along with they will not have any payload either which I dont need other than gas.

Nicely put he was not very helpful and didnt want to take the time to explain "why" either way. I hung up feeling like he could care less about my concerns and didnt want to find a solution for me. I'm in sales as well for a Major Dirt Equipment Manufacturer and I would never leave a customer without a solution or explanation to why we could not do something they questioned.

To me thats not a very good business practice when you have a buyer willing to pay a premium for what is said to be one of the best lifts on market when being told by many others its a waste of money for a pavement pounder and occasional sand dune truck.

[BASE]

I'm curious where you ended up with this. I'm still waffling back and forth between having a local shop build them for less than half the cost, or buying the ORD springs that I'm sure ride a little better. Also giving some serious thought to buying the front ones from ORD and having the rear ones made elsewhere.

[special-K]

Seriously, I'd just go for Tuff Country. All I see here with these two options you have limited yourself to sounds like a bunch of BS. Suspension coinnections sells what they manufacture and that happens here in the USA. They are off the shelf, ready to ship, and you get a great ride @ 6" all spring, better than stock. I drove this truck with my pinky

[BASE]

I didn’t realize they made anything that would fit. All I saw on their website was 69+ with 52” rear springs.

ETA: I didn’t mean to hijack this one but I’m looking at a 68 K10 that has 56” springs in the back. Looks like the MDFarms may have the shorter springs. I’m not sure if the later trucks that use 56 springs would have the same arch or not.

[Richard]

Honestly I can understand not being able or wanting to spend more money than necessary. Been there, done that. I have owned Tuff Country, Rough Country and Skyjacker. For me out of the three "off the shelf" products Skyjacker was the most adequate. With all due respect, unless someone has actually shelled out the added cost for the premium leaf packs. They have no idea how much better the product is. I stand by what is stated by others, the difference is night and day.

[bowtie72]

For what it is worth. I have used ORD’s shackle flip on a couple of blazers, not trucks. The front shackles and greaseable bushings. This kit really works well driving down the road. Rides great. I could run 80 on 35s and drive like a new car. Nice and tight and not wondering or pulling in the wore down roads. With their front springs and shackle flip you end up with more than a 4” lift. Closer to 6”. I didn’t measure because I didn’t care. I know you don’t want the shackle flip. He is right about the spring hitting the bed. The arch on the springs and stock shackle will hit.As far as moving the axle forward you can but the offset plate to correct this. I know you want what you want. Go buy the other springs and be done. The rear end of a truck is light and will be a very rough ride with any lifted spring. Gear ratio I would run 3:73 and 35s. If highway driving is more of what your doing. I put a 350 Tbi in my blazer years ago before ls swaps it was a great combo. I’ll find a pic of my blazer.

[k29349]

I bought Tuff Country EZ ride 3 inch lift springs for my K-5 back in 2002. They are STIFF! I thought they would get better with age. The are still the same as the day I put them on.

[1970BannerBlazer]

Originally Posted by MDFarms

Opions wanted Please

Has anyone used "Off Road Design" lift kits on their K10 Short Bed

I ordered a Skyjack Soft Ride 6" lift "One size fits all" but then started reading up on the above company. Custom ordered springs for your truck taking into consideration bumpers, weight, travel etc. I like that they offer the heavier shackles and other options.

Anyone try this kit?

What did you end up going with? I’m in the market to replace an unknown 4” lift in my rig. All I do is highway and want as smooth a ride as possible.

[MDFarms]

I went back and forth and ended up just ordering a 4" Skyjacker becuase I didnt want to change hangers and such on my truck. The ORD was going to be about 2400.00 and It seemed like they wouldnt allow me to order 5" springs which their supplier told me they would build and use their other components, to be honest the guy was not at all helpful and made me feel like I should either know the answers to my questions or quit bothering him. I really would have spent extra money for the better if he would have taken time to work with me better