1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread

[JohnIL]

I'm new to the forum, but I've been working on a new project for a few months. Let's begin with a bit of history...

I'm located in central Illinois, deep in the rust belt, where old vehicles go to melt away into piles of iron oxide. I've been playing with old vehicles off and on since high school. Most recently, for the past couple of years, my 16 year old son and I have been working on his first car. It's a 1983 El Camino resto-mod. We've done a 5.3L LS/4L60E swap and modernized most of the car's systems. If you're interested, you can check out our build thread on the GBodyForum here:

https://gbodyforum.com/threads/1983-...-thread.79332/

Working on my son's car reminded me how much I enjoy wrenching on old vehicles and it got me thinking that I really needed to find a new project vehicle of my own. It's been about ten years since I sold off my last project vehicle (a 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer) and it's time for something new, er old. I've always wanted an old Chevy pickup for cruises, car shows, and road trips. At first, I was thinking about a 3 window Advanced Design pickup (1947-1953), but those are getting harder and harder to find in rescuable condition. The more I searched the market, the more I fell in love with the 1st generation C/K series pickups (1960-1966). The styling is classic and they're just "modern" enough to be familiar to my child-of-the-'70's sensibilities. Plus, there is tons of aftermarket support for this series of trucks. Pretty much anything that is too far gone can be replaced from a catalog.

I wasn't really planning to buy a project truck until after we finish the bodywork on the El Camino, but, while on a family kayaking trip in Missouri this summer, we stumbled upon a couple of old Chevy pickups in a small town along a two-lane highway. On a lark, I pulled into the driveway to take a peak. There was a '65 C10 and a '55 3600. As soon as I stepped out of my truck, the requisite "junkyard dog" began barking like I was there to rob the place. This, of course, roused the home owner, who walked out front to let me know, in no uncertain terms, that the trucks were NOT for sale. I apologized for disturbing him and we struck up a friendly conversation about the two Chevys. The owner turned out to be a friendly retired guy who piddles with old vehicles a bit more seriously than I do. In addition to the two pickups, he had a Chevelle and a BelAir in the garage. After talking with him for a few minutes, it was clear that he had a few too many projects around the shop. Within fifteen minutes, he was willing to talk about maybe selling off either of the pickups. The '55 3600 wasn't really my style, but the '65 C10 had lots of potential and was already in drivable condition. His "I don't want to sell it" price really wasn't too far out of line, so my son and I visited again the next day and we struck a deal. We returned the following weekend with a trailer to haul the C10 home to central Illinois. I've purposely left the seller anonymous. He seemed like a pretty nice guy, but as I've learned more about the truck, I'm not sure how much I trust him. More on that as we go along...

About the truck
1965 Chevrolet C10 Long-bed Fleetside.
Base-model pickup. The original owner was down right cheap. The truck came with manual steering, manual drum brakes, no AC, manual windows, manual locks, no reverse lights, etc. It's about as plain as they come.
Originally had a six cylinder and a 3-on-the-tree.
A Previous owner swapped in a small block Chevy and a Saginaw 4-speed.

It's clear that the truck has had a pretty sorted past. I am at least the 4th owner and it's been a "project" for at least three of us. The drive train isn't original and it's on its third paintjob. Like my son's El Camino, I'm going for a resto-mod vibe. I like the original 1965 aesthetic, but I want something that runs and drives more like a modern vehicle.

The Plan
Goal: Cool old truck with modern performance and reliability.
Engine: I'm not entirely sure. I've considered doing an LS swap, like the El Camino, but if the small block proves to be reliable, I might consider keeping it around long-term.
Transmission: The truck is in desperate need of an over-drive. I plan to use the truck for road trips. Right now, it's wound up tight at 65 mph. I want something that can comfortably handle Interstate speeds. And, I'm not really enamored with the manual transmission. If it were a Muncie, I might be more dedicated, but with a Saginaw, an automatic swap wouldn't break my heart. Long term, I will probably go with an over-drive automatic.
Suspension: The previous owner was going for sort of a rockabilly rat-rod vibe (more on this later). So, he lowered the truck 2" in the front and 3" in the rear with new lowering coil springs from LMC. The lowered stance helps the modern radial tires fill out the wheel wells and the lower center of gravity helps improve the truck's handling characteristics. My only complaint is that the truck was dragging tail. The rear end was just too low for my taste. I've since remedied this by adding a pair of 1.5" spring blocks from McBay Performance. The result is a 2" drop in the front and a 1.5" drop in the rear. The truck has a mild rake, like a modern truck would have. Long-term, my goal is to modernize the suspension to improve road manners. I'm not looking to go full-on pro touring, but I will be looking at front disc brakes, a power master cylinder, sway bars, and poly bushings. I'm open to suggestion on other suspension improvements. Before I get too far into the suspension upgrades, I will go over the entire chassis with a flap wheel, rust converter, and black chassis paint. I'm not planning a complete frame-off, but I want to halt the rust and do what I can to keep it at bay.
Body: The body condition is a bit of an unknown. Keeping with the rockabilly theme, the previous owner sprayed the entire truck flat black, including the grille and bumpers. Under the black paint is a coat of metallic burgundy. Beneath that is the original two-tone light blue with white. It's obvious that someone has done some bodywork at some point in the past, but it's difficult to assess the actual condition until I dig into it. There is definitely some filler in the body, but I haven't found anything completely egregious yet. The blacked out paint scheme definitely isn't my style, but I can live with it until I'm ready to tackle the body work. If I find any deep puddles of filler, I'll grind them out and patch with new steel. Eventually, I would like to go back to the original light blue with white paint scheme. But first, there will need to be some rust repair in the floor, the cab supports, and probably lots of other spots that I haven't discovered yet. Sooner rather than later, I plan to bring some more chrome to the party by replacing the painted grille, light bezels, and bumpers with shiny new parts. The chrome will look good with the flat black now and even better with light blue in the future.
Wheels and Tires: The previous owner did me a favor by mounting a set of 16" steelies with chrome hubcaps and modern radial tires. At the moment, the steelies are painted red. They contrast well with the flat black paint job, but someday, they'll need to be repainted. When the truck goes back to light blue, I think the steelies would look good in a medium-dark gray. Or, maybe white instead. I'm not quite sure yet.
Interior: The interior is a mess. Whoever sprayed the burgundy body color sprayed the interior the same color. Underneath is the original silver color. The previous owner installed poor fitting black carpeting, red seat belts, and a broken down blue bench seat from a mid-70's square body. My plan is to turn the interior to various shades of tan & brown. Eventually, I want to paint the cab interior tan/taupe/beige/putty, install distressed dark brown TMI low back bucket seats, dark brown carpeting, dark brown door panels, dark brown headliner, and dark brown seat belts. Basically, I want the interior to feel like you're sitting in an old baseball glove. I think this will look pretty sharp with the light blue body color.

As you can see, I have some vague ideas, but I don't have a lot of the details decided yet. I hope this gives you an idea of where the project is headed. All of this should keep me busy, and entertained, for quite a while.

Since we brought the truck home, we've made quite a bit of progress toward making the truck drivable. I've taken notes along the way, but this post is already too long. I'll add the progress notes as a series of shorter updates. Thanks for coming along for the ride!

John

[JohnIL]

Wiring Cleanup Part I
I'm calling this "Part I", but there is a lot of wiring to be tackled and I've only scratched the surface.

-I've already addressed at least a dozen connections under the dash made with wire nuts and some with only electrical tape.
-I completely disconnected the power from the after market radio. It was wired wrong and was producing an alarming amount of electrical feedback through the speakers. The whole thing will get replaced with a modern touchscreen stereo. Until then, I will probably just tear the old stereo out of the dash to clean up the accompanying rats nest of wires.
-The previous owner appears to have installed a replacement fuse block and main wiring harness. While I'm grateful that the new harness is already installed, the installation of the fuse block was never finished. The fuse block was laying on the floor, under the clutch pedal. Not exactly a "factory" situation. The fuse block is now mounted securely to firewall, up under the dash.

There is plenty more wiring problems to be addressed. The under hood wiring is more or less stock. That's not a bad thing, but a lot of it needs to be refreshed and automotive electrical has come a long way since 1965. I plan to install new, heavier battery cables, a heavier alternator charging wire, ground and power buses, and an aftermarket fuse block to protect anything new that I add under the hood. There will probably be some relay wiring in my future as well.

[JohnIL]

The previous owner didn't do much with the truck, other than drive it around town. The engine was grimy, dirty, and in need of some basic maintenance.
-I installed a fresh fuel filter. The old filter wasn't awful, but it had been there for a few years and the element was dirty.
-I installed a new PCV valve and grommet. The old valve was clogged and the grommet was loose in the valve cover. Crankcase pressure was escaping around the valve and drooling oil all over the valve cover.
-While I under the hood, I gave the top of the engine a good cleaning. This exposed rust spots on the chrome valve covers and air cleaner. They are quality Edelbrock dress up pieces, but they're showing their age. These will get replaced someday down the road.
Once I get the truck "roadworthy", I will take the time to change the oil, transmission fluid, etc. It may not be necessary, but it's worth it for the piece of mind.

[JohnIL]

It appears that the previous owner replaced all of the brake lines, but they did a less-than-stellar job of it. Rather than bending and flairing custom hard lines, they bough off-the-shelf sticks of steel brake line and coupled them together to make up whatever lengths they needed. It's messy and prone to leaks. When it comes time to do the front disc conversion and power brake upgrade, I plan to bend up some new hard lines that fit the truck a little better. While we were inspecting the brake lines, my son noticed a pressure blister on the rear brake flex line. This was pretty surprising considering the line can't be more than a couple of years old. And, it's pretty darn scary, considering the truck still has the original style single bowl master cylinder. If that line popped, I'd have zero brakes. Scary stuff! So, I replaced the flex line and my son assisted with bleeding the brakes. By the way, the single bowl master cylinder will get replaced when I do the power brake upgrade. It's hard to believe that a 55 year old truck still has the original master cylinder.

[JohnIL]

I mentioned in my opening post that installed a set of lift blocks to raise the rear end of the truck. I know what you're thinking. Coil spring lift blocks are a REALLY bad idea. But, these blocks are different, I swear! The previous owner replaced all four coil springs with new lowering springs from LMC (2" up front, 3" out back). This left the truck dragging it's tail. Some guys go for that look, but it's not my style. I'm OK with lowering the whole truck a couple of inches to improve the center of gravity, but I like the forward rake of the original stance. Luckily, I found a company called McBay Performace that makes billet aluminum spacers that install between the trailing arm and the bottom of the coil spring. And, because of the way the rear spring is bolted down solid between the trailing arm and the spring retaining cup, the spacer is 100% captive and doesn't add any additional flex to the suspension. The spacers are available in 1/2' increments from 1/2" all the way up to 3". I opted for the 1 1/2" spacers. This gives the truck an over all 2" front drop and a rear 1 1/2" drop. A 1" spacer would probably be better for a short bed, but with the long bed, I felt like it needed the extra 1/2" to set the rake back the way it belongs. Here's a link to the spacers if anyone is interested in a set.

https://mcbayperformance.com/rear-bi...et-gmc-trucks/

[JohnIL]

Bench Seat, Shifter, Etc.
Oh, that bench seat. I'm inclined to hold a grudge against the previous owner over this stupid seat. The previous owner replaced the factory seat with a clapped out blue vinyl bench seat from a mid-70's square body Chevy. I'm sure the original seat was thrashed, but the replacement isn't much better. The padding is shot, the springs sag, and the vinyl is split. So, the previous owner covered it up with the obligatory cheap saddle blanket covers. The seats were impossible to slide in and out of, so I immediately threw the covers in the trash. The seat is still the wrong color and the vinyl is cracked, but at least you can get in and out of the truck. The seat itself isn't even the worst part. The worst part was the position of the seat. They were WAY too low. The floor in a mid-70's square body is 4"-5" lower than the floor in a mid-60's C10. This put the seat 4"-5" too low in the C10 cab. The previous owner had the seats mounted atop 2x4 wooden blocks and bolted down with common grade 3/8" bolts. Ugh. You just can't make this stuff up. The seat was so low that I had well over a foot of head room. It was just silly. And, the wood blocks and cheap hardware made the seats completely unsafe. To accommodate the low seat position and the location of the Saginaw shifter location (almost tucked back under the seat), the previous owner installed a Hurst Competition Plus shifter with a muscle car style shift lever.

https://www.holley.com/products/driv.../parts/3913780

It's a very nice shifter, but the shape of the shift lever only works in a low seated muscle car. Raising the seat to a more normal truck position would put 2nd gear and 4th gear directly into the seat padding. Drastic measures were in needed...

Someday, I plan to replace the bench seat with a pair of fancy TMI low back buckets. But, I'm not ready to spend a few thousand dollars on the interior just yet, so some sort of compromise had to be made. I addressed both the seat height and the seat safety issues by fabricating a pair of steel seat risers 4 1/2" tall. That's a full 3" higher than the 2x4 wood blocks. I bolted the new risers to the floor and the seats to the new risers with fresh grade 8 hardware. Now that the seat was at a more natural height, the shifter was basically unusable. So, I unbolted the shift lever, clamped it in my bench vice, and used a long cheater pipe to bend it ( just above the center bend) forward until the 2nd gear and 4th gear positions are almost directly straight up. This provided the necessary clearance to the front of the seat. On the other hand, it also put the 1st gear and 3rd gear positions directly into the front of the triple gauge cluster mounted under the center of the dashboard. That was easy to fix. I cut out a piece of aluminum plate the same width as the gauge cluster and 3" deep. I mounted the plate to the bottom of the dash and the gauge cluster to the plate. This effectively moved the gauge cluster 3" forward, underneath the dashboard. They are still readily visible and well out of the way of the new shifter position.

New Shifter Knob
I know this seems like a petty detail, but the shifter knob was all wrong. First, it was white. Again, this is a mid-60's pickup, not a 70's muscle car. Second, the shift pattern engraved in the knob was for a different transmission. It was the Muncie pattern with reverse up and to the left instead of the Saginaw pattern with reverse back and to the left. Third, the knob was cracked and loose because someone bottomed it out on the shift lever instead of using a jamb nut to tighten it in the correct orientation. That was at least two strikes too many for me, so I ordered a new black knob with the correct shift pattern and a proper jamb nut. Much better now.

Shifter Boot
Another petty detail, but whoever installed the 4 speed just hacked a hole in the floor and stuck the shifter handle up into the interior. A cheap black vinyl shifter boot covered up the jagged metal edges and helps keep the outside on the outside.

[JohnIL]

Locking Door Handles
Because this is base-model truck, there was only one door lock (on the driver door). The passenger door could only be locked from the inside. The key for the driver door lock was long gone. I suspect the ignition switch was replaced at some point and because these trucks only had one key (for both the ignition and the doors), the original key went in the trash with old ignition switch. And, the original door handles were pitted anyway. So, I fixed all of these problems with new set of matching locking door handles from LMC. Now the truck can be locked up and safe from curious hands.

Sun Visors
More base-model cheapness. The truck only came with one sun visor on the driver side (nothing at all on the passenger side) and the original sun visor was unupholstered. It was basically just a chuck of pressboard on a swivel. So, I ordered up a new set of tan (to go with the intended future interior color) sun visors and a passenger side sun visor bracket. It was pretty nerve racking to drill a giant hole in the inner roof panel for the bracket, but the new sun visors are a vast improvement.

Arm Rests
The cheap original owner didn't bother to spring for armrests on the interior door panels. That's actually OK by me because the original optional arm rest were pretty crappy anyway. They were plain black plastic. I opted for 1957-1959 style arm rests from LMC. I went with brown vinyl. They look pretty lousy right now with the burgundy interior paint, but they'll fit in nicely with the future tan/brown interior.

[JohnIL]

I gave up on the garbage 1990's stereo and threw it in the trash. I tried to make it work, I really did. The antenna had a short and was getting lousy reception. I replaced the antenna and the stereo "worked" for one day. After taking the truck for a short drive, something inside the stereo went kaput and the only sound coming from the speakers was a faint humming. While it was working, the speakers were so tinny that it was almost unlistenable anyway. It just wasn't worth fooling with any more. So, out it went. As I removed the stereo, it became clear that it was a cast off from some other project car. There were scratches all over the case and the whole chassis was loose. It's no wonder it didn't work well. Future stereo plans include a modern touchscreen head unit with Android Auto for phone calls and navigation. In the meantime, no tunes is better than crappy tunes. Removing the rats nest of poor stereo wiring cleaned up the interior tremendously.

Next, I turned my attention under the hood to the battery cable situation. This little project snowballed a bit, but in the end, the truck is MUCH better off. When the engine swap was done, they used cheap off-the-shelf 4 gauge battery cables. And, after a few years, the cables were nicked and fraying. I know that lots of cars and trucks left the factory with 4 gauge cables, but on other projects, I've watched thin battery cables literally melt because of overheating. I'm just not willing to take that chance.

I started by installing a set of power and ground busses to the inner fender, next to the battery location. We used the same busses on my son's car when we did the LS swap and I really like the way they worked out. The power and ground from the battery get connected to the busses and everything else gets terminated at the busses. It makes for a much tidier (and safer) wiring job than attaching all of the accessory leads direction to the battery terminals.

With the power and ground busses in place, I moved on to the ground cables. The old 4 gauge ground cable went directly from the negative battery terminal to the top alternator bracket. This is a factory arrangement and it grounds nicely. But, it's ugly and it put the ground cable up on top of the engine directly in the way of hands, tools, fan blades, etc. We can do better. So, I made up a new 2 gauge ground cable routed from the lower alternator bracket to the new ground bus. The lower location let me route the cable down along the inner fender out of the way. Next, I made up a new 2 gauge ground cable from the bus to the battery. That buttoned up the negative side.

While I was in the area of the Alternator, I addressed the undersized charging wire. At some point in the past, there must have been a charging problem. Rather than relying on the charging wire in the engine harness, someone had installed a dedicated charging wire from the charging stud on the alternator to the positive terminal of the battery. That's not a bad thing. It gives the electrons a direct route to the battery. The problem is, they used a 14 gauge wire. That's WAY too small. They basically created a fuse. If the charging wire in the wiring harness ever failed, the 14 gauge charging wire would have glowed like a lightbulb filament until it caught on fire and burned the truck to the ground. I replaced it with a new 10 gauge wire, which matches the gauge of the charging wire in the harness. Here's where things started to snowball. When I tried to tighten the nut on the charging stud, the stud itself started spinning inside the alternator case. No wonder there was a charging problem!!! This prompted a trip to O'Reilly for a new alternator.

Next, I moved on to the positive side. The old 4 gauge cable went directly from the starter solenoid to the positive battery post. I started by making up a new 2 gauge cable from the battery to the new positive bus. While I was at it, I installed a battery disconnect switch to make future maintenance easier and safer. Then, I made up a new 2 gauge cable from the bus to the starter solenoid. More snowballing. When I attempted to tighten the nut on the solenoid terminal, the terminal spun inside the solenoid housing. Sound familiar? At some point, somebody WAY over tightened all of these terminals. I suspect they were attempting to solve the aforementioned charging problem. So, after another trip to O'Reilly, I have new starter. Yes, I could have just replaced the solenoid, but the starter Bendix was pretty questionable and a whole new starter was cheap insurance.

Thanks to the new cables, alternator, starter, the engine jumps to life and the voltmeter reads a healthy 13.5-14 volts.

[JohnIL]

Ever since I brought the truck home, I've been meaning to decode the engine casting and stamping numbers to find out exactly what I have. I finally got around to it the other day. Now, I have another grudge to hold against the previous owner.

When I bought the truck, I was told that it had a 327 and Saginaw 4 speed from a 1968 Camaro. I didn't expect anything special, like a 275HP 4 barrel 327. They didn't put very many of those in 1968 Camaros. What I expected was a run-of-the-mill 210HP 2 barrel 327. They put a boatload of those in 1968 Camaros. Oh, and I expected the truth. I got none of those.

The numbers say that I have a smogged out, detuned 175HP piece of garbage 350 from a 1979 1/2 ton truck. This engine may have come from a 1968 Camaro, but it DEFINITELY wasn't original to the car. At this point, I'm finding it difficult to believe anything the previous owner told me. I'd like to believe that someone lied to him and he really did think this was a 327 from a 1968 Camaro. That would be a whole lot better than thinking that he purposely lied to me. The sad part is that I don't even really care. I didn't buy the truck for the engine. If he had told me the truth, I would have bought the truck anyway. I was just happy that I found a truck that was drivable while I work on fixing it up. Knowing that it had the most common and crappiest (second only to the 305 from the same era) small block Chevy ever made would have just made the future drive train decisions easier. I just don't like the fact that I was lied to about it.

Now then, moving forward. Onto happier topics.

[JohnIL]

Steering Wheel & Turn Signal Repair
The steering wheel choice is another grudge I plan to hold against the previous owner (along with that stupid square body bench seat!). The previous owner was a big dude. Big in the sense that the original steering wheel probably interfered with his belly. In response, he installed a Grant 14" GT wheel. That's all fine and good, but the smaller steering wheel was WAY too modern for a '65 pickup interior, it made the manual steering even tougher to turn, it blocked the view of the speedometer, and it was down right ugly. So, I installed a new Grant 967 wheel in it's place. It's only one inch larger (15" diameter), but the grip is slimmer and the extra leverage makes a big difference in the feel of the manual steering. Plus, it looks a whole lot better in a classic pickup.

http://www.grantproducts.com/products/view/109/

Now, I have a clear view of the speedometer and the rest of the gauge cluster. Wait a minute. Why is the speedometer so far off? How can it possibly be off by 25%? Well crap, one more thing to fix.

Speedometer Cable, Sending Unit, and Driven Gear
So, the speedometer was reading WAY slow. When my GPS said I was going 60 MPH, the speedometer said I was going 45 MPH. That's not the kind of mistake you want to make in front of a police officer with a noisy old pickup truck. Back when the engine swap was done, two owners ago, they didn't bother to address the fact that the rear end ratio of the donor vehicle didn't match the ratio of the truck. So, the speedometer was inaccurate by 25%. Even worse than that, the speedometer sending unit is located a few inches further back on the 4 speed transmission than it was on the original 3 speed transmission. So, they cross threaded the speedometer cable onto the sending unit in an effort to stretch the cable longer. Then, they tried to tighten the cable with a pair of pliers and mashed the threads on the sending unit. Grrrrr! I ordered a new speedometer cable, sending unit, and a set of speedometer gears. It was all pretty easy to install, but choosing the right speedometer gear required some trial and error. Four trials and three errors, to be exact. In the end, I went from a 22 tooth gear all the way down to a 17 tooth gear, with trial runs at 20, 19, and 18 along the way. Now, the speedometer is 100% accurate. OK, maybe only 99.9% accurate, but it's pretty darn close.

Headlight Wiring Harness and Bulb Upgrades
If you hadn't noticed, old vehicle headlights are dim. Compared to our modern daily drivers, these old trucks are light driving flashlight! Luckily, there are solutions available. My long term intention is to upgrade to LED headlights. But, those things are crazy expensive. Hopefully, the price will come down as the newness of the technology wears off. In the meantime, LMC sells a heavy duty headlight wiring harness that uses a pair of relays to send power directly from the battery to the bulbs. This allows the use of a pair of high output halogen bulbs. The harness was a pain to route through the front of the truck, but the rest of the installation was a piece of cake. And, the new bulbs are vast improvement in terms of nighttime drivability.

Front "Marker" Lights
From the factory, these trucks have no front "marker" lights. They have front "parking" lights. But, when you turn the headlights on, the "parking" lights go out. Compared to a modern vehicle, these trucks look pretty strange coming down the road with no amber marker lights on the front. Luckily, this is an easy situation to remedy. All you have to do is tie the purple wire from the front parking light harness to the brown wire in the tail light harness. Voila! Marker lights! Now, whenever the light switch is in either of the "on" positions, the front parking/marker lights come on. This mod has no impact at all on the turn signals. That's a separate circuit.

[JohnIL]

Get ready for a saga... Not really, but it did turn out to be a lot more work than it should have been. When we brought the truck home, the door windows leaked and the rattled around inside the doors. The seals were shot. Luckily, the wing vents seals are still pretty good. The idea of disassembling those buggers and replacing all those rivets turns my stomach. I'm sure I'll have to tackle it someday, but I'll avoid it for as long as I can. For now, I just needed new window channel seals and window wipes (anti-rattle felts). I ordered a complete window seal kit from LMC. It came with the rubber window channel seals and the anti-rattle felt strips. The old channel seals where dried out and cracked. They literally came out in pieces. And, the old anti-rattle felt strips had no felt left at all. The disassembly was easy and the window channel seal replacement went quickly. It only took 20ish minutes per door. The saga started with the anti-rattle felt strips. I spent the whole rest of the day (seriously, five hours) trying to get those damned felt strips installed. The felt strips that came with the seal kit from LMC did not have the same types of clips as the originals. They will snap into place, but only with an enormous amount of pressure. After a couple of hours of fighting, I finally got the driver side felt strips snapped into place. At one point, one of the strips was bent into a W shape. Eventually, I got it straightened back out and snapped in, by squeezing it into place with a pair of channel locks. The new felt strips work, but they're bent enough to look shoddy. The passenger side felt strips were even less cooperative. After three more hours of fighting, the passenger side felt strips were so bent and mangled that they would never fit. They simply refused to snap into place.

After a bit of research I found that Brothers (Holley) sells a set of reproduction felt strips that have the same type of clips as the originals. I don't know if they will work any better, but they're definitely worth a try. I've grown to hate those silly little felt strips. And, the worst part is that they don't actually seal against the windows. They just wipe the water off and stop the glass from rattling. If you're caught in a hard rain, the felts will saturate and let water run down inside the doors. What a lousy design. I really wish that someone made a rubber seal to replace the outer strips to help keep the inside of the doors dry.

Update on Door Window Seals
About a week later, the Brothers seals arrived and they are indeed identical to the originals. I installed with the passenger side outer strip and it snapped right into place. SO much better. Since the inner strip really doesn't do anything except fill the little crack between the door and the glass, I didn't bother to install it. I didn't want to push my luck. So, I have three of the four Brothers felt strips in reserve if any of the ones on the truck get damaged. Someday, when I do the body work on the doors, I'll rip out the LMC felts from the driver's door and replace them with the remaining Brothers felts. I can't recommend the Brothers window felts enough. And, I can't unrecommend the LMC window felts enough. If you need to tackle your window seals, the channel seals from LMC seem to work OK, but do yourself a favor and order the anti-rattle felts from Brothers instead.

[JohnIL]

One day, my son and I took the truck out for a drive in the country. My excuse for the drive was to give my son some practice driving a manual transmission. The C10 has been his first opportunity to learn, he needs more practice with the third pedal. As you would expect it was a slow drive with lots of stopping and starting. We only went about 15 miles. But, when when we pulled back into the driveway, I could smell the brakes. Not good. All four drum brakes were locked up solid. If it were a single brake, I would suspect a bad wheel cylinder or a stuck brake shoe. But, with all four brakes locked, it almost had to be a problem with the master cylinder. After letting the truck sit for about an hour, the brakes had released and the truck would roll freely again. This supported my master cylinder theory. The brakes either released as the truck cooled down, or the fluid pressure leaked back toward the master cylinder. So, I ordered up a replacement for the single-reservoir master cylinder. I hated to pay for a new master cylinder that will get replaced when I do the power disc conversation, but I don't plan to dig into that until next Spring. So, money was spent on a temporary master cylinder to get me by until the big conversion takes place. On the plus side, this was the easiest master cylinder I've ever replaced. There's only one brake line to remove and reinstall. And, the fitting on that line even cooperated. The fitting itself is a little bit rounded over, but once it broke loose, if threaded right out of the old master cylinder and back into the new one. The truly amazing part of the replacement is that no (or at least very little) air got into the system. I bench bled the master cylinder before I installed it. Once it was on the truck, I got one burp of air from the bleeder on the top of the master cylinder and the brakes seem to work very well. The pedal feel is MUCH better than the original master cylinder and the brakes will lock up on dry pavement. If there is any air in the lines, I'm sure it will show up with enough drive time. We'll have to take it out for another stop and go test drive to make sure the brake lockup problem is fixed.

Update on Brake Master Cylinder
So, I took the truck for another test drive. I went of five miles. When I pulled back in the garage, the truck came to an abrupt halt. That's right, the brakes were locked again. And, the brake pedal was a hard a rock. What the heck is going on? I have a brand new master cylinder and the blasted thing locks up, just like the old one. Then, I had a stroke of brilliance. I stuck my head under the dash to lay eyes on the brake pedal, push rod, and the back of the master cylinder. You'll never guess what I found. The jamb nut on the push rod adjuster was lose. So, each time I pushed the brake pedal, the push rod turned a tiny fraction, which made it get longer with each stroke of the pedal. This put constant pressure on the master cylinder, especially when everything under the hood (including the master cylinder) was hot. I backed the push rod off a couple of turns, creating about 1/4" of slack in the brake pedal and tightened up the lock nut. Then, I went for another drive. All good now. The brake pedal feel is different now that there is some "take up" travel before the master cylinder engages, but the brakes are nice and strong. And, best of all, they don't lock up when they get warm!

I question whether or not there was ever anything wrong with the original master cylinder, but at 57 years old, it was time for it to go anyway.

[JohnIL]

The previous owner installed a set of dark red lap-only belts with plastic latches. They looked awful and were only partially safe. I ordered up a set of dark brown retractable 3 point shoulder belts from Seat Belts Plus. The installation was pretty straight forward. I cheated and watched a video from Brothers Trucks that showed how to install their seat belt kit, which is almost identical to the Seat Belts Plus kit. So, I already knew what I was getting into. The new belts aren't as slick as the belts in our modern daily drivers, but they are almost identical (only much newer) to the 1983 belts in my son's El Camino. They're much safer that lap-only belts and the dark brown color will look a lot better with the new shades-of-brown interior that I'm slowly piecing together.

[JohnIL]

I put Tune-up in quotes because it was more like troubleshooting than a actual tune-up. Lots of things were out of whack. When I first got the truck home, it ran rough. I pretty much ignored the way it ran because of the obnoxiously loud exhaust. I just concentrated on other things. After a few weeks, I thought maybe it might be nice to actually drive the truck, so I had to address the lousy idle and the horrible throttle response. What I found was a whole new list of sins by the previous owner.

I don't know exactly what led up to this problem, but the truck was only running on six cylinders. The back two cylinders (one on each side) were completely dead. There was zero spark on those cylinders. Obviously, the previous owner didn't know that. In order to make it somewhat drivable, he jacked with the timing and the carburetor. It was running WAY too rich and timing was advanced to the point that it would run for 5-10 seconds after the ignition was turned off. I traced the spark issue to plug wires. There was definitely spark at the distributor cap (I forgot just bad it hurts to get shocked by an HEI ignition). Anyway, a new set of plugs and wires got it running on all eight cylinders again. But, that made the run-on worse and it was running so rich that exhaust burned my eyes.

I attacked the timing next. The previous owner had the vacuum advance connected to ported vacuum. This added a ton of timing at idle. This explains why the engine refused to die when the ignition was turned off. So, I switched to manifold vacuum and set the timing back to factory spec. That improved things dramatically. Now, the engine would idle and turn off on demand. But, it was idling high (over 1200 RPM) and it was still incredibly rich.

The carburetor was next. I lowered the idle as low as possible without killing the engine. That was just below 1000 RPM. Then, I backed the idle mixture screws all the way in to verify that the power valve wasn't leaking. The engine died, right on cue. Good, I can check the power valve off the trouble shooting list. Next, I returned the idle mixture screws back to factory spec (1 1/2 turns out). Immediately, the idle got better. It smoothed out and the idle rose to about 1100 RPM. I was definitely on the right track. So, I connected a vacuum gauge and adjusted the idle mixture screws until I got to peak vacuum (almost 16 inches of vacuum). The idle rose another 100 RPM, back up to 1200 RPM. I attempted to lower the idle down to something in the 600-650 RPM range, but it refused to idle down below 1000 RPM. The engine was running smoothly, but the idle speed just wouldn't come down. That's when I noticed that the previous owner's homemade throttle linkage was binding up on the carb's throttle lever. Ugh, he really made a mess of this carburetor. The throttle linkage was nothing more than a long piece of all-thread and he had cut it just long enough that it was hanging up on the 90 degree bend of the carb's throttle lever. It was an easy fix. I lopped off about 3/8" from the end of the linkage rod. There's still plenty of material left to adjust the linkage, but now it clears the throttle lever. The engine settled right down to 650 RPM. All good? Not quite.

Now that the engine was idling smoothly and exhaust wasn't killing all the bugs in the neighborhood, I had a different problem. The carb now had a severe dead spot at partial throttle. Each time I shifted gears, the engine fell flat. Past experience told me that it was probably a bad (or misadjusted) accelerator pump. That theory was reinforced by the color of the accelerator pump cam. The factory installed green cam had been replaced by a red cam. More evidence that someone had had their way with this carburetor. I could see fuel squirting in the carb when the throttle was opened and there was no fuel leaking from the accelerator pump. That verified that the pump diaphragm was good. Next, I adjusted the accelerator pump linkage. It was adjusted so tight that the diaphragm was preloaded. That didn't hurt anything, but it effectively reduced the capacity of the pump. That definitely won't help a partial throttle dead spot. With the linkage adjusted correctly, the dead spot was better, but still there. The weird part was that it got worse as the engine warmed up. I incorrectly thought that it needed a stronger shot of fuel, so I moved to a more aggressive pump cam. The dead spot got worse. I went the other direction with a less aggressive cam. The dead spot got WAY worse. Hmm, that makes no sense. So, I put the red cam back in and parked the truck for the night. The next night, I talked it over with a friend of mine who has been working with Holley carbs longer than I've been alive. He said, "It's a Holley. The power valve is blown, of course." The observant reader will notice that I already verified that the power valve was not blown. So, I was skeptical. But, I hadn't actually laid eyes on the power valve, so it was worth a try. The next night, I pulled the front fuel bowl and metering block. The power valve passed visual inspection and I couldn't blow air through it. OK, it's not the power valve. But, since I was in that far, I thought I might as well replace it with a new valve, just to make sure. When I backed the power valve out of the metering block, I found the problem immediately. The previous owner (I'm really starting to dislike that guy) had attempted to increase the capacity of the power valve by stacking three fiber washers between the valve and the metering block. Wow, just wow. The middle of the three washers had split and was intermittently leaking air/fuel. I think the valve was OK, but the effect was the same, a dead spot at partial idle. I replaced the power valve and installed it with a fresh fiber washer (only one this time).

That seems to have fixed the problem. Now, the engine pulls hard through the gear shifts. It almost makes me want to keep the small block instead of installing an LS... Almost. Now that the carb is behaving itself, and the weather is turning cooler, I needed to turn my attention to the electric choke. The previous owner (are you starting to see a pattern here?) disabled the choke by backing the spring all the way off. He said that he couldn't get it to idle when the engine was cold. I wonder why? The choke turned out to be MUCH easier to fix than I expected. When I went out to the garage the following morning, it was about 45 degrees outside, so the engine was plenty cold. I loosened the choke housing and rotated it until the choke just snapped closed. Voila! It worked! No further adjustment needed. Now, with the engine cold, the choke closes and the high idle comes up to about 1300 RPM until the engine gets warm. Finally, something that the previous owner didn't mess up. Not too badly, at least.

[JohnIL]

When I bought the truck, it was obnoxiously loud. The previous owner was an old hot rodder with bad hearing. He installed headers, 3" FlowMaster 40's, and pipes that dump just behind the cab. No judgements, I get the whole loud pipes thing. There once was a time when my daily driver had a small block with headers and sonic turbos. But, that's not my style anymore. I'm more into subtlety now. Quiet exhaust is sneaky exhaust.

I fully intended to take the truck to the same exhaust shop that built the pipes on my son's El Camino. But, there was a wrinkle. I want to replace the rusty headers with ram-horn style manifolds. I already have a pair of chrome plated ram-horn manifolds sitting on the shelf. The problem is, the exhaust shop doesn't do manifold swaps. They only work from the flanges back. I was annoyed, but I can understand why they don't do manifolds. Imagine all the broken bolts they would have to fight. That would definitely cut into their productivity. I could install the new manifolds myself, but that means that I can't drive the truck the to the exhaust shop in the middle of the city 20 miles from home. I would have to find time to load the truck up on the trailer, haul it into the shop, then come back the next day and haul it home. I just can't arrange the logistics right now. So, instead, I threw together a quick and dirty temporary exhaust at home in the garage.

I hacked the 3" pipes off about 18" past the header collectors (the pipes are welded directly to the collectors). Then, I reduced down to 2 1/4", directly into a pair of 2 1/4" Walker Quiet-Flow SS mufflers. Then, I added short turn-downs to the exit side of the mufflers. The Walker Quiet-Flows are A LOT quieter than the old Flowmasters. The turn downs exit about halfway between the rear of the cab and the rear axle. That puts the sound well behind the passenger compartment. Eventually, I will take the truck to the exhaust shop for a custom bent system with an X pipe and tailpipes over the rear axle and out to the rear bumper. But, in the meantime, this "temporary" exhaust makes the truck drivable without the excessive volume and drone of the 3" Flowmasters. A better (and more complete) exhaust system can wait until next spring when I have time to install the ram-horn manifolds and schedule a visit to the exhaust shop.

[JohnIL]

I mentioned early on that the truck desperately needs an over-drive. Now that the small block is behaving itself, I'm not in a big hurry to spend money on an LS and 4L60E combination. That begs the question, what to do about over-drive?

There are two obvious choices:

1) Replace the Saginaw 4 speed manual with a 5 speed manual (with over-drive).

2)Make the leap to an automatic and install a 700r4.

Either choice would involve a significant investment. I would prefer an automatic for easy drivability and I still hope to modernize the drivetrain someday. With that in mind, a 700r4 seems like the logical choice. Once I have a 700r4, moving to a 4L60E in the future is pretty easy. The case hs the same dimensions, so the crossmember and shifter can be reused. OK, time to start looking for an affordable 700r4.

This past weekend, my son and I paid a visit to my uncle's shop. He's a retired independent mechanic and classic car collector. He specializes in Pontiac GTO's, specifically the very rare Judge Ram Air III and Ram Air IV models. He's been buying and selling cars and parts for 50+ years. When I asked if he knew of a good source for a low-buck used 700r4. His response was, "Oh, I bought one of those a couple of weeks ago. Do you want it?" I couldn't believe my ears (or my luck). He had bought the contents of another Pontiac collector, when the gentleman passed away. Amongst all of the Pontiac parts was this random Chevy 700r4. Since it won't bolt to a Pontiac engine, my uncle had no use for it. He refused to take more than $100 for it. And, it came complete with a matching torque converter. What a deal!

So, I have a transmission. Based on the code stamping, it appears to be a 1989. It will need a new filter and pan gasket, but that's pretty minor. I hope to get it installed in the truck in the spring. I'll start collecting the parts needed for the conversion over the winter.

And that brings us up-to-date. The truck is finally drivable, just in time for the limited use antique vehicle license plates to go dormant at the end of October. After that, I can only drive to/from car shows until April. I'll probably park the truck over the winter to keep it out of the nasty Illinois salt and snow anyway. Until then, I'll keep nibbling away at the to-do list and generally enjoying the old truck.

[SCOTI]

Welcome to the site

You weren't kidding about being ahead of the curve as far as documenting the start of updates/upgrades for this truck. Looking forward to watching your progress!
PS: These guys love the pics so don't be shy.

[JohnIL]

Thanks Scott,
I learned from the El Camino project that's it's best to make notes as I go along. Otherwise, I forget to post the details in the build thread. I haven't taken many pictures yet because it just looks like the same old black truck. I'll try to get some decent pictures of the mini-projects I've completed.

John

[joesscamaro]

Thanks for all the detailed write-ups. Enjoyed reading along and look forward to tracking the progress.

[JohnIL]

Thanks Joe. I don't know how fast my progress will be. I'm excited to work on the truck, but I have to split time with the bodywork on my son's car. I don't want to lose momentum on that project. I'll try to post some better pictures of the truck in the next couple of days.

John

[Braunschweiger]

Wow a long Report, very interesting, welcome here, I can't wait to see the Pictures.

[JohnIL]

Thanks Harald! I'm sorry about the longwinded introduction. This represents three months of nights and weekends. I've been making notes as I got along. I already had it all typed up and I wanted to get it all documented here in the build thread. I like what you've done with your '62. I'm looking forward to reading through your build thread too!

John

[88Stanger]

JohnIL, Welcome to the board! Your attention to detail is unmatched in description. I can appreciate the details and if I am not mistaking, you are not doing this just for us to read, but for you to have like a diary of your adventure with the truck. I think that is a good idea, write it down while you remember all the details so if needed you can come back to it.
I do sort of the same thing, but i do it with Pics, lots and lots of pics. I have only put maybe 1/10th the amount of pics I have on mine as the details as you mentioned may not mean anything to anyone else, but to me there is something in each photo that I may need and honestly more than just a few times I was so glad I took all those pics to fall back on to look at and help with my build.
Great job so far, I excited to see your progress.

[JohnIL]

Thanks Stranger! You're spot on. I'm writing the build thread as much for documentation as for entertainment value. The build threads are my favorite part of forums like this one. Writing is part of my job, so I tend to be long-winded. I just hope that documenting my misadventures can help others along the way. I will be posting some progress pictures as soon as I can get the truck out in the sunshine.

Thanks.
John

[Braunschweiger]

It's a good Read and when you Read it again later for yourself, the Memories flood your Mind again.
Oh yes, there will be setbacks, it's more of a part of it.