voltage reg problem

[MacataQ]

Okay... given all the confusion over the VR and the rats nest of wires by PO, i am going to just convert to a 1 wire system. any recommendations for a good make to get? not needing anything high amp, only running electric fan, stock-ish radio & have converted all lights to LED. thanks

GOOD DAY ALL
i have spent the day going thru a ton of posts on Voltage Regulators
and i cant seem to find anything that covers my specific problem. hoping someone here will set me on the correct path electrically (pardon the pun)
1972 c10
SBC 350
3 wire alternator w external Voltage Reg
no A/C no pwr win, stock radio
details
low charging voltage @ bat when go thru stock reg -by pass reg (test) alternator pitting around 14.9 15.4v
i believe this test confirms the alt is okay?
so i suspect the VR
so went online Napa Canada out in my vehicle details and was directed to
purchase VR142SB as exact fit for my truck, so i ordered it.
when i got it a became perplexed
i thought it would be a matter of plug and play .."as in EXACT FIT"
but it doesn't look like it to me
see pics
any ideas?
thanks
Mac

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by MacataQ

GOOD DAY ALL
i have spent the day going thru a ton of posts on Voltage Regulators
and i cant seem to find anything that covers my specific problem. hoping someone here will set me on the correct path electrically (pardon the pun)
1972 c10
SBC 350
3 wire alternator w external Voltage Reg
no A/C no pwr win, stock radio
details
low charging voltage @ bat when go thru stock reg -by pass reg (test) alternator pitting around 14.9 15.4v
i believe this test confirms the alt is okay?
so i suspect the VR
so went online Napa Canada out in my vehicle details and was directed to
purchase VR142SB as exact fit for my truck, so i ordered it.
when i got it a became perplexed
i thought it would be a matter of plug and play .."as in EXACT FIT"
but it doesn't look like it to me
see pics
any ideas?
thanks
Mac

Does the 4-Contact plug fit?

It looks like a slight design change. The contact on the left [in both pix] goes thru a heat dissapating resister to ground on the box itself. In the newer version, there's a terminal for you to attach EDITED: a Condenser?
The Factory also had the VR boxes suspended off the Radiator Core Wall with vibration shedding rubber mounts. I have duplicated this effect by stacking rubber plumbers' washers and this may isolate the VR Box from ground, so groundibg is necessary.

To be honest, I had trouble with ''Lifetime Warranty'' replacement parts from O'Reilly's. They bought out Checker Auto and inherited their lifetime warranties, but their replacemts all failed. On my '68 Chevy Stepside, I cannibalized a VR that was on my '67 K/10 Suburban, from 1998. It works fine.
On my '71 GMC Jimmy, I got a wiring conversion kit from M&H, and Got a NIB SI-12 Alternator with internal VR. It's working fine.

[MacataQ]

orange
thanks for responding
it looks like it lines up correctly
the new one does not have aground on the casing like the old one
Mac

[1970 CST Short Wide]

I seem to remember something about polarization of a VR. Touching one of the wires to get it flowing in the right direction. "??????????

[MacataQ]

70
not sure on that? any details?
Mac

[Already Gone]

following

[1970 CST Short Wide]

Originally Posted by MacataQ

70
not sure on that? any details?
Mac

This was a long time ago. I remember something about touching Field to Ground. Probably long forgotten due to new Alts with built in Reg ?????
Any body old enough to remember this or am I Dreaming. LOL
I’m only 70 and I think my mind still works OK. ????

[Rust_never_sleeps]

Originally Posted by MacataQ

....
it looks like it lines up correctly
the new one does not have aground on the casing like the old one
Mac

Isn't the L-shaped contact on the left spot welded to the case, or is that an optical delusion?

[1970 CST Short Wide]

I’m going to laugh my Ass off if I’m correct here. Do your research, let me know

[MacataQ]

Originally Posted by Rust_never_sleeps

Isn't the L-shaped contact on the left spot welded to the case, or is that an optical delusion?

i have attached another pic hope it shows the L shaped contact better.
im not any better a photographer than electrician!
Mac

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by Rust_never_sleeps

Isn't the L-shaped contact on the left spot welded to the case, or is that an optical delusion?

It looks like its separated from the rest of the case by a sheet of black plastic. The tip of the L-shape is a male spade terminal for a lead with a female spade terminal, a length of wire, and a Noise Cancelling Capacitor. [Optional for audio devices.]

All the VRs I've gotten have a selftapping machine screw w/ 1/4'' hex head that grounds the VR.
As I said earlier, because the rubber mounting grommets isolate the VR from road vibrations may also isolate it from Ground.

[MacataQ]

Orange
yes all the contacts seem mounted on the black plastic piece. so i am assuming that L shaped one is going to be the brown wire on the original VR, using the original female
plug.
thanks for responding
Mac

[RustyPile]

Originally Posted by 1970 CST Short Wide

I seem to remember something about polarization of a VR. Touching one of the wires to get it flowing in the right direction. "??????????

This procedure was for polarizing a generator.. Back in the days, some car manufacturers had positive ground systems, others had negative ground systems.. Polarization procedures are not necessary for alternators.

MacataQ, now is your chance to upgrade your charging system. Unless you just want to keep things exactly original, you can install an internally regulated alternator.. Minor wiring modifications and you're in business.. How to do this simple procedure is all over the internet, including our own ELECTRICAL forum.

[MacataQ]

Originally Posted by RustyPile

This procedure was for polarizing a generator.. Back in the days, some car manufacturers had positive ground systems, others had negative ground systems.. Polarization procedures are not necessary for alternators.

MacataQ, now is your chance to upgrade your charging system. Unless you just want to keep things exactly original, you can install an internally regulated alternator.. Minor wiring modifications and you're in business.. How to do this simple procedure is all over the internet, including our own ELECTRICAL forum.

Rust
thanks for the clarification...good to know!
i have the wiring diagram to switch to internal alt for later when i can afford to do that, but since this alternator tested fine & already bought new VR, ill keep using it.now i understand how the whole thing works! installing tm...er today, will report results
thanks
Mac

[72SB]

IMHO, stay with the external VR. I am away from mine now but will look when I get back home to see about the "L" tap. I remember on originals there was a condenser so can't remember if that went to that tab or something else.

I think your VR is a solid State one which INHO is better. I do use the Tuff Stuff brand one though (made in USA). I bought mine on Amazon

VR is typical suspect if the GEN light is glowing at idle. That "can" also be a failing diode in Alt. Also, a failing ALT can take out VR and vice versa.

If you are using a non points dizzy, you should be using a solid state VR. They are more stable at idle.

Also on mounting to core support. You want to use Well Nuts (rubber). Most hardware stores, Lowes, etc, even Amazon has them. Can't remember size off hand.

[68 C10 Driver]

I bought one of the solid state VRs a while back, these are made in China now and IMHO are garbage. I periodically surf eBay and have been able to get several good new and used OEM VRs that work. That would be the rout I would go, nothing beats factory original.

[Sheepdip]

Originally Posted by 1970 CST Short Wide

This was a long time ago. I remember something about touching Field to Ground. Probably long forgotten due to new Alts with built in Reg ?????
Any body old enough to remember this or am I Dreaming. LOL
I’m only 70 and I think my mind still works OK. ????

I'm no electrical genius but I think that was used on the generators era

[54blackhornet]

Polarizing is a generator thing ! Had to do it on my MG’s back in the 60/70’s.

[MS66]

Originally Posted by 68 C10 Driver

I bought one of the solid state VRs a while back, these are made in China now and IMHO are garbage. I periodically surf eBay and have been able to get several good new and used OEM VRs that work. That would be the rout I would go, nothing beats factory original.

I hate to hear they don't work now, because the solid state VRs used to be an "upgrade" over factory VRs. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the one I have on my truck doesn't take dump on me. It's over 20 years old, still going strong. I kept my original VR "just in case". Dang don't jinx me.

[RichardJ]

60's GM vehicles with a radio installed will have a condenser mounted on the Ign coil and another on the voltage regulator. Both of these items generate electrical NOISE that will be heard in the radio speaker, if the condenser is not there.

For those that think that terminal hanging out from under the regulator should be grounded, go right ahead. Be sure to do it to your own vehicle and have a fire extinguisher handy. That tab is connected to voltage reg pin #4 and has 12V when the Ign key is turned ON.
The body of the regulator must be grounded to the vehicle. As others have mention the rubber mounting requires a separate ground wire.

The voltage regulator on the right, in the 3rd image, is the original type with two relays inside of it. The regulator on the left is a modern aftermarket replacement with semi-conductor internals.
It is easily identified because it weights less than half of what the original regulators weighed.

I have not seen a solid state VR with a wire wound resister mounted on the bottom and I don't recall seeing any VR with a resistor connecting pin#4 to ground.

Delco did make some variations of the VR for special optioned vehicles. One variation I'm familiar with was a regulator with only one relay inside. There was no pin #2 and pin #3 and #4 were connected together internally. These were used with CARS that a special gauge package on the console. I don't think it was ever used on trucks.

Is the alternator a standard 10DN?

DC Generators have iron pole pieces that retain some magnetism with North and South pole ends. New or rebuilt generators must be polarized so that they begin to produce current in the correct direction. Polarizing corrects the North - South orientation before you start spinning the generator.
Alternators are AC Generators and don't have fixed polarity field coils.

>>I hate to hear they don't work now, because the solid state VRs used to be an "upgrade" over factory VRs.<<

Solid state or semi-conductor regulators is what they use inside every Si10 and Si12.

As with anything else, some stuff we buy is junk.
I've been using a solid state VR for several years now in my '67. I have box full of old relay VR and the one I'm now using actually gave me better idle voltage than the others I tested. All were used take offs.

[RichardJ]

Optional gauge package with special regulator.
Last image is standard regulator.

Notice lack of resistor and indicator light.

[MacataQ]

well that post was successful in scaring the bejesus out of me and combined with today's rains, i will delay doing anything further on this project. until i know or can confirm more.
To add some additional info if it will help
the VR i removed is apparently a Neihof DR-153B, it had no condenser attached to it.
it did have black or brown wire connected to the base and from there it goes to the rad cradle bolt then from there to the DS headlight. as for the alternator, all i can see written on it is Delco-Remy. i hope this info is useful and appreciate help and guidance!!
thanks
Mac

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by RichardJ

Optional gauge package with special regulator.
Last image is standard regulator.

Notice lack of resistor and indicator light.

OK. I stand corrected, and have RetConned my posts. The tab off #4 on the side of the box is for a Noise Cancelling Condenser.
Do Not Ground here.

[1970cstblazer]

I recently replaced the original 519 VR on my 1970 Blazer with the optional 61A alternator with a new D635 solid state VR. I had a flickering light condition with an occasional voltage spike to 17v. The new one solved all of the issues. I was able to maintain stock appearance with the use of the original embossed Delco Remy Made in USA steel cover.

[MS66]

Originally Posted by 1970cstblazer

I recently replaced the original 519 VR on my 1970 Blazer with the optional 61A alternator with a new D635 solid state VR. I had a flickering light condition with an occasional voltage spike to 17v. The new one solved all of the issues. I was able to maintain stock appearance with the use of the original embossed Delco Remy Made in USA steel cover.

Same here. I replaced the original over charging VR in my '68 with the D635 solid state VR, idle voltage was near full output. Much better electrics now.
The alternator is all original, nothing changed or replaced in it. 60k miles in 56 years.