350 or 400 Pontiac engine in '64 4X4?

[64_4X4_CustomCab]

I'm a newbie to the forum and I need some help with my 1964 Chevy C10 step side big back glass truck that is sitting on a 70's - 80's 4X4 frame. It doesn't have an engine nor a transmission. I have the opportunity to purchase a complete (carb to oil pan) Pontiac 350 out of a '68 Firebird, a Pontiac 400 short block and 2 Turbo 400 tranny's for a good price. I plan on using the truck just for fun and not planning on restoring it to original condition (more like a rat rod without the extreme modifications).

What's everyone's thoughts and things I need to think about in deciding if either of these engines are good solutions for the truck? How different are Pontiac and Chevy engines of the same cubic inch?

Thanks in advance for your input. I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

[scuderia]

Pontiac parts are more $$ than chevy and fewer choices..

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Welcome to the forum.
I moved this for ya. You had posted in the Projects & Builds section which is for ongoing projects. I moved it into the general question area.

[ETsC10]

Welcome to the board!
If you can take on a Pontiac 400 build, you can create a
monster of a motor but, yup, it can get quite pricey.

Good luck whatever you decide!

ET

[aotte1]

Chevy 350 has several pros:
o as stated above, it will cost you the least for the same parts/build,
o you can get latest technology,
o their are more high performance/efficient parts and easy to find,
o and lots of knowledge out their.

[jdl71]

The TH400's (or whatever trans you decide to use) will have to be BOP (Buick Olds Pointac) specific as the poncho bellhousing pattern is different from SBC. Do you have or are going to use a transfer case? If so, you will need a 4wd trans also. Might be simpler to find another squarebody (73-87 chevy/gmc) 4x4 drivetrain.

[jonzcustomshop]

Originally Posted by jdl71

The TH400's (or whatever trans you decide to use) will have to be BOP (Buick Olds Pointac) specific as the poncho bellhousing pattern is different from SBC. Do you have or are going to use a transfer case? If so, you will need a 4wd trans also. Might be simpler to find another squarebody (73-87 chevy/gmc) 4x4 drivetrain.

speedway motors does sell an adapter plate to use the BOP trans, or motor w/ a chevy, or vise versa.
I put a 455 pontiac in my 63, however mine is 2wd, so I was able to use the 2wd BOP trans with the motor.

your 73-87 4x4 chassis will have side mounts, and the Pontiac should just slip in without too much hassle, Pontiacs have the starter and fuel pump on the drivers side, so you will have to re-route the fuel lines and battery/ ignition cables

here is a link to the adapter plate:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Chevy-...late,3281.html

[jdl71]

I guess there probably is no such thing as a BOP trans that would bolt to a t-case adapter is there?

['63GENIII]

I think that GMC ran Pontiac V8 engines in their trucks as early as '58? It would definitely be different. Im sure that you could take a BOP pattern auto trans and mate it to just about any transferase you used. Id be curious to know if you could do the same with a manual trans if you had the BOP bell housing. My kid brother has a lot of Pontiac stuff at his shop. Not as cheap as a Chevy to build but if you're getting a great deal on the Poncho, then why not rock it?

[Gargoyle]

GMC used the Pontiac V8 in some trucks from 1955-59. The Pontiac is a great engine, lots of low-end torque and likely will get better gas mileage than a comparable small block chevy. That being said, the Chevy engine can be bought off the shelf with good power and should to be easier to install.

If I ever find a project 60-66 suburban it will definitely be getting a Pontiac mill.

[jdl71]

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

I think that GMC ran Pontiac V8 engines in their trucks as early as '58? It would definitely be different. Im sure that you could take a BOP pattern auto trans and mate it to just about any transferase you used. Id be curious to know if you could do the same with a manual trans if you had the BOP bell housing. My kid brother has a lot of Pontiac stuff at his shop. Not as cheap as a Chevy to build but if you're getting a great deal on the Poncho, then why not rock it?

A manual I would think would be easy, if you had a divorced t-case. I suppose you could do the same with an auto? What I was unsure of is if the BOP auto's had a removable tail shaft so you could use the t-case adapter for non divorced applications.

[GRX]

I have been building Pontiac engines for over 30 years. Their design makes torque down low so they can be great truck engines. Of those two I would choose the 400. Better power potential. Pontiac are more expensive to build than small block Chevy. Not as much as it used to be though. They have had a big resurgence in popularity the last 10 years or so with a much more vibrant aftermarket than previously.

[64_4X4_CustomCab]

I greatly appreciate all the input guys. I'm a little leary of the Pontiac engines just because I don't know what I'm getting myself into. My goal is to get the truck driveable as easily and as inexpensively as possible.

I have an opportunity to get a 454 for $500 but I think it's more engine than I want and will wind up costing me more than I want to pay.

I'm seeing quite a few 350's pop up on Craigslist this week so I think I'm going to try to go with a Chevy 350 with either a Turbo 350 or 400 tranny.

Thoughts?

[GRX]

Just now saw your last post. Given your experience & budget restrictions, sticking with a chevy is definitely your best bet. Easiest would be stay with what it is set up for already. Small block. Big block. Straight 6. What ever.

While pontiac only had one engine family from 287 to 455 cubes - no big or small block, building one is not a one size fits all deal like chevys. Differences in timing cover/water pump designs, intake exhaust cross-overs, and motor mount location from year to year can make things difficult.

[64_4X4_CustomCab]

Thanks folks! A friend donated a 1986 Chevy C20 to the project. It's been sitting for 10 years but has a fully intact 350 engine and an automatic transmission.

Got to get the engine and transmission out of the truck and determine the condition. Definitely planning on rebuilding it.

Want to build it to pull a trailer hauling project cars / trucks. Any suggestions?

[D'Monsta]

Originally Posted by Gargoyle

GMC used the Pontiac V8 in some trucks from 1955-59. The Pontiac is a great engine, lots of low-end torque and likely will get better gas mileage than a comparable small block chevy. That being said, the Chevy engine can be bought off the shelf with good power and should to be easier to install.

If I ever find a project 60-66 suburban it will definitely be getting a Pontiac mill.

I know this is an old thread and I hope you are doing well. I wonder if you ever found your project and puta Pontiac engine in it? I'm trying to find out if the motor mounts/perches are in the right place for a 389 Pontiac to sit right under the hood and be able to use the same driveshaft? My truck is a 66 GMC with straight 6.. Any idea?

[Agv63]

Originally Posted by D'Monsta

I know this is an old thread and I hope you are doing well. I wonder if you ever found your project and puta Pontiac engine in it? I'm trying to find out if the motor mounts/perches are in the right place for a 389 Pontiac to sit right under the hood and be able to use the same driveshaft? My truck is a 66 GMC with straight 6.. Any idea?

I put a 455 pontiac in my 63. I used the clamshell type mounts, with engine brackets from a firebird, and made my own frame perch to suit . Switch pitch 400 and 1pce driveshaft, plenty of space, i can drop it lower by 2.5" but mounts perches and headers become an issue then. Pics was when i was buzy with install. Sorry for the sideways images, it shows right on my phone but sideways on here.

Cheers adriaan.

[crazyjeenyus]

Originally Posted by D'Monsta

I know this is an old thread and I hope you are doing well. I wonder if you ever found your project and puta Pontiac engine in it? I'm trying to find out if the motor mounts/perches are in the right place for a 389 Pontiac to sit right under the hood and be able to use the same driveshaft? My truck is a 66 GMC with straight 6.. Any idea?

I’m glad this thread has resurfaced. I’m very interested in the idea of going with a poncho 400 in a c10.

Best way to get a feel for the difference in the engine mount locations and orientation is to look at the differences between the engine cradles.

Pontiac V8:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...CABEgIqmvD_BwE

SBC:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...make/chevrolet

Personally I would go with the 400 block over any of the others. You can increase the stroke on these engines a lot with very little machine work, and this can be done in your garage with an angle grinder.

I helped my brother with his 400 build for his ‘68 Firebird. Final displacement was 461 cubes. Everyone that said it’s expensive is right, a lot more than building a sbc, even more than bbc for the most part.

Butler Performance is your best resource for a Pontiac build, and they know their stuff.

If you have a bit of money, you can end up with a better (in my opinion) engine for your truck.

If you’re deciding between a 400 & 455, go with the 400 block. It has a smaller diameter main journal and will have less friction than the larger main diameter 455 block.

Good luck and post your progress.