57 Panel "FAKMLC" build

[FAKKY]

Looked into the axle thing a while back. As I can probably get an axle for $150 to combine the two and shorten to center the pinion. BUt when adding in welding and time (most guys wont touch it) ..... didnt look much better - but again a good idea.

I mocked up a trapeziod tank (10x10" at trans end and 9"x9" at diff end) and confirmed issue is the crossmember clearance ..... I'll have to "notch" two 6 inch wide sections on the top of the tank for it to sit more flush to frame.

[dsraven]

if you get a buck made like that you could fab your own tank from cold rolled sheet, fab some end caps and have a shop weld it up for you and do a pressure test. install a few baffles or something to keep the fuel where you need it or grab a fuel system from a scrap tank that has the "well" for the pump to sit in and factor that in along with the flange for the sending unit/pump. or go with a frame mounted pump.
you could swap your explorer 8.8 for a mustang 8.8 for a centered center section. somebody would be tickled to buy your old one set up for the task force, maybe.

found this info on the net, if that interests you.

79-93 Mustangs use a 57 inch wide rear axle. 94-98 Mustangs use a 58.5 inch wide rear axle. 99 and newer Mustangs use a 59 7/8 inch wide rear axle. Lincoln Mark7 LSC, SVO Mustang and Fox Body Saleens use a 59.5 inch wide rear axle.

https://lmr.com/products/mustang-axle-guide


just a few ideas to ponder and confuse the heck outta ya, lol.

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by dsraven

if you get a buck made like that you could fab your own tank from cold rolled sheet, fab some end caps and have a shop weld it up for you and do a pressure test. install a few baffles or something to keep the fuel where you need it or grab a fuel system from a scrap tank that has the "well" for the pump to sit in and factor that in along with the flange for the sending unit/pump. or go with a frame mounted pump.
you could swap your explorer 8.8 for a mustang 8.8 for a centered center section. somebody would be tickled to buy your old one set up for the task force, maybe.

found this info on the net, if that interests you.

79-93 Mustangs use a 57 inch wide rear axle. 94-98 Mustangs use a 58.5 inch wide rear axle. 99 and newer Mustangs use a 59 7/8 inch wide rear axle. Lincoln Mark7 LSC, SVO Mustang and Fox Body Saleens use a 59.5 inch wide rear axle.

https://lmr.com/products/mustang-axle-guide


just a few ideas to ponder and confuse the heck outta ya, lol.

No that's great - appreciate it - really.
I think Im sold on just doing the custom tank to get it where I want on the frame rail but inside. Axles are harder to get around here than they should be - at least with the fact I have no truck (borrow neighbors) and no time except for weekends. I emailed/called a few but not much luck on anything close. They do pop up from time to time on CL. If I had known the offset would have caused this issue - would have gone with a regular centered 8.8. Was just after the 31 splined shafts and the 3.73 gears :P

Now just deciding on getting someone to weld it up for me or do it myself I'll probably have some guy do it though.

So that leads onto fuel accessories. This is what I think I need ...... missing anything or anything else recommended .... there are SO many choices.

PUMP
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tnk-pa-4

SENDER
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...-gml?rrec=true
or
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cin-sn38t10

NPT to -6AN fittings from fuel pump to lines
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/icb-an816-06-04a



Fitting to Fuel Rail
https://www.amazon.com/Russell-64085...ZH131F345EK7NK


Fuel Hose 6an {3/8}

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230620?rrec=true
or
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...8aAgmIEALw_wcB

Fuel Filter/Regulator
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...YaAl-4EALw_wcB

[FAKKY]

Well ... final tank mockup ???

[FAKKY]

Basically as it is right now its

57"(l) x10.75" (d) x 10"(w) at front and 9"(w) at rear ~ 25 gallons

But need to remove the two frame notchouts (~ 10"[w]x6.5[l]x5"(d) ~ 650 cubic inches or call it 3 gallons. So a 22 Gallon tank as it stands.

Really pushing the boundary of depth to ground clearance as well as its tucked right up behind trans crossmember as well as rear axle.

Some other dimensions and sizing to play around with

[dsraven]

if pushing the limits on ground clearance maybe think about a skid plate or skid rails under it. better to bend a skid plate or rail than cut a slash in the gas tank.
what have you got for room behind the axle? possibly a tank from another vehicle, like an S10 blaser or something would fit back there and fill from the side?

here is a thread for 55-59 trucks talking about options

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=574762

[FAKKY]

Thanks dsraven.

Yes I totally understand why most people put the tank in rear now....... problem for me is wife really wanted to keep the spare tire in rear and not have to carry it inside the truck.

So then it mean tank in rear and tire on back bumper
or
Custom tank.

Coin flip ........ but for now this should work. I like the idea of the skid plate I might do that as well as shorten from 10 3/4 deep to 10" even.

[FAKKY]

[FAKKY]

Anyone got a thread link to running brakes - how they did it.
Looking for a good one

[dsraven]

are you talking about the service brakes or emergency/park brakes? if service brakes,do you want the whole thing from frame mounted booster, residual valves, proportioning valve, through to brake hoses and how the lines were run along the frame? are you thinking vac booster, hydro booster, stock linkage and single master cylinder or stock linkage and tandem master cylinder (non power brakes is what I mean by stock linkage, single versus tandem is the master cylinder, stock would be single system so all the brakes run off one circuit. those went out in the 60's due to safety reasons but some still run them to be stock), stock trans cross member or something different (if going with power booster it may make a difference if you run a manual gear box and a different cross member). firewall mounted booster would also make a difference as far as residual valves etc.

just a bit more info required as to what your plans are that's all.
stock master cylinder or tandem (upgraded for safety but can still use stock drum brakes if that's what you want)
power brakes or non power brakes
frame mounted or firewall mounted booster or master cylinder set up
drum brakes all around, like stock, or upgraded disc front drum rear or disc disc
stock front axle or ifs (ifs style and donor car or ifs manufacturer would help)
stock engine and trans or something different

that will give us a start

pics, of course, would be good. yes, we could go through your build thread and other posts but that is time consuming on our end. you know we all live for pics of somebody else's rig. we get ideas and also can spot things you have maybe missed that will give grief later on.

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by dsraven

pics, of course, would be good. yes, we could go through your build thread and other posts but that is time consuming on our end. you know we all live for pics of somebody else's rig. we get ideas and also can spot things you have maybe missed that will give grief later on.

Good deal And udnerstood and appreciated.

Heres a few pics.

Dakota IFS up front.
8.8 Explorer in rearl
MC from a chevy van I think from memory.

Really just never done anything with brakes before apart from fluid change and service with brake pads/rotors etc.

So .... stuff like the right way to route ..... to allow for travel ..... and route .... and venting ......

Soft lines to hard lines connections.

Testing.

Was just looking for a thread that maybe had a good overall shwoing of steps taken

PICS.

[FAKKY]

Parts.
3/16 copper-nickle.

[dsraven]

nice pics, that explains a lot for those who see your truck for the first time. looks like you have a start with the tools. the bending pliers will tend to kink the line if youre not careful. i use them for close to fittings only when i can't get the other style to fit. there are a few videos showing the tubing bending theories. try a few flares on scrap line till you are confident you have it down to a science. here is a common bender for smooth bends in the open areas of the tubing that allow the tool to fit in.

https://www.eastwood.com/tubing-bend...liers-kit.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulc6tiFX6H0

with your set up it is common to attach the prop valve under the master cyl just for ease of running the lines. it could be on the frame out of site though. an adjustable prop valve is nice but once set it is forgotten about unless there are problems or changes made to the system. just ensure the master cyl is one for a disc disc set up as well. a residual valve may be pressed into the master on the drum brake port otherwise and that will give you grief unless it is removed. not sure what the master came from.

have you checked your pinion angle and compared to the trans output? it looks like it is pointing downward a lot. could be the pic./ pinion angle should be equal but opposite to the trans output within a degree or otherwise you are asking for vibration especially with the offset diff center section.

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by dsraven

nice pics, that explains a lot for those who see your truck for the first time. looks like you have a start with the tools. the bending pliers will tend to kink the line if youre not careful. i use them for close to fittings only when i can't get the other style to fit. there are a few videos showing the tubing bending theories. try a few flares on scrap line till you are confident you have it down to a science. here is a common bender for smooth bends in the open areas of the tubing that allow the tool to fit in.

https://www.eastwood.com/tubing-bend...liers-kit.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulc6tiFX6H0

Ill put some practice on both flares and bends and might build a straightening tool as well.

Originally Posted by dsraven

with your set up it is common to attach the prop valve under the master cyl just for ease of running the lines. it could be on the frame out of site though. an adjustable prop valve is nice but once set it is forgotten about unless there are problems or changes made to the system. just ensure the master cyl is one for a disc disc set up as well. a residual valve may be pressed into the master on the drum brake port otherwise and that will give you grief unless it is removed. not sure what the master came from.

OK. Just to show my ignorance here - isnt the proportioning valve the silver thing with the lines on the side (drivers) below the MC ? I do believe its a disk/disk MC my memory just is getting bad on these things and bought it like 2 years ago. So I was thinking thats just a direct hookup and would only need either a residual or adjustable valve if that one wasnt working.

eg looks like this just to side of MC - but silver
https://www.carolinaclassictrucks.co...p-Valve-1.html

Originally Posted by dsraven

have you checked your pinion angle and compared to the trans output? it looks like it is pointing downward a lot. could be the pic./ pinion angle should be equal but opposite to the trans output within a degree or otherwise you are asking for vibration especially with the offset diff center section.

Yes correct.
Rear end is not where it needs to be -- I still need to weld in perches.
I was going to get the pinion pretty close with a jack to lift it up and get angle ... and then run the lines.

How about stuff like.....

1) Venting rear
2) Flex Lines to Hard lines .....
3) Cleaning calipers/pistons or inspecting them - they have sat like that for 2 years ?
4) Safest/best way to route across the front. Guessing on backside of the XMEMBER ?



Is the soft line to hard line just a locking tab on a bracket like this ? Generally ..... and cycle the axle to make sure nothing pinches.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/prop...019-brakes-jpg


Then there is a banjo bolt I assume for soft like to caliper - but are these standard size ?

Finally - once all hooked up ...... anyway to test ? Just fill with fluid and pump the brakes and bleed ...... and as long as holding pressure and engaging without leaks - should be good ?

[dsraven]

OK. Just to show my ignorance here - isnt the proportioning valve the silver thing with the lines on the side (drivers) below the MC ? I do believe its a disk/disk MC my memory just is getting bad on these things and bought it like 2 years ago. So I was thinking thats just a direct hookup and would only need either a residual or adjustable valve if that one wasnt working.

eg looks like this just to side of MC - but silver
https://www.carolinaclassictrucks.co...p-Valve-1.html


yep, that is the stock valve and the wire connection would go to a dash light that indicated brake trouble. whe a line blows off or some other problem happens in one brake circuit the other brake circuit is still pressured up which causes a piston in that valve to move over and close the circuit in that switch. that prop valve may or may not work for your brake application because it is set up for the vehicle it came from which may not have the same brake bias as you need, that is the reason I mentioned an adjustable prop valve. you can adjust the bias so the rear wheels don't skid undert heavy braking

How about stuff like.....

1) Venting rear
2) Flex Lines to Hard lines .....
3) Cleaning calipers/pistons or inspecting them - they have sat like that for 2 years ?
4) Safest/best way to route across the front. Guessing on backside of the XMEMBER ?


to vent the rear axle you can use a stock axle vent bolt that is long enough to go through a stock rear axle brake hose that would normally go from the frame cross member down to the axle. the hose would have a mounting flange on it for that purpose and the bolt is hollow with a barbed fitting on the end so a diff vent hose can be attached. for the hose if you use a stock hose it will be available at any parts store later on in the life of the truck.

this link talks about that and also some otjher ford 8.8 stuff when swapping axles
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/tr...ngler-rearend/

https://www.ebay.com/bhp/axle-vent

flex lines to hard lines
use a bracket welded to the frame (or bolted, whatever. even a hole in the frame flange is common on stock vehicles) to hold the flexible hose and a "C" clip to hold it to the bracket. then the hard line screws into the end of the flex line. look under any vehicle for an idea of how that works. see the pic in the link below and imagine the end of the hose, without the attached bracket, slipping through a hole in the frame of a frame mounted bracket with a hole the size of the fitting o/d, it would bottom out on the C clip attached to the hose already, then on the other side of the bracket another C clip is used to keep the hose from slipping back out of the bracket. the other end of the hose, with the attached bracket, goes to the diff and is held in place with the hollow bolt mentioned above. the hard lines screw into that fitting with the attached bracket and those lines go to each side brake caliper. flex hose like the axle swap pics show in the other link

cleaning calipers etc
plug the brake line hole so no dirt gets inside. if there is already dirt in there simply replace or rebuild the calipers. if they are clean inside the brake fitting hole then plug that and do some cleaning/inspecting. look for a cracked or torn rubber boot, siezed pistons etc. really, if they need work, a rebuilt caliper is pretty cheap compared to resealing the old one and hoping you don't need to buy new pistons etc.

routing the hard line out front
run the hard line across the back side of the ifs member or another cross member that is close. use nice frame clips to hold it securely. terminate the hard lines similar to the rear, with a C clip holding the parts in place

[dsraven]

the brake hose link is an actual ford explorer hose for 94 ish rear axle. the bracket holds the park brake cable as well. easily sourced and if it works on an explorer it should work on your truck too, unless you plan to race or want stainless flex lines
hope that helps and doesn't confuse anybody

[FAKKY]

First 45 flare.
Seems ok.

[FAKKY]

DSRAVEN - you are the MAN. Thanks for being here.

First 3/16 run on MC. Took about 4 attemps as the bends were out of alignment.




Didnt realize the other ports are 1/4" ... so going to have to order some new line and fittings for the run off that port. Not sure if its front or back .....

[dsraven]

thanks, just trying to help.
if you take a look at some other cars, even newer stuff, they use a coiled section of tubing or a flex line from te master to the prop valve when they are close like that. it takes away the guess work on a short line like that, allows for some flex between parts and also makes it easier to swap out a master cyl if need be later on.
nice work though.

[dsraven]

you can easily make a loop in the line by using a piece of pipe or a wd40 can or even a spray paint can for something to wrap the line around. be careful not to kink it and point the ends in the direction you need when done.

some pics here

https://www.eastwood.com/ew-brake-forming-tool.html

[FAKKY]

Not too much to report on been busy at work.

Cleaning the truck this afternoon ready for a POR15 base in cab area .... then wife will ;ay the soundproofing and matting down.



Fuel Tank parts came in. TanksInc PA-4 and a floatless fuel sender.

[FAKKY]

So whilst doing the main cab section ..... I was looking at the interior headliner.
PO did what looks like a good job from 5ft away ....



But when you get close ....




Debating on whether to pull it out ........ and redo.
Or just leave until after the truck is completed ......... after a few years if I keep it I might end up pulling the whole chassis/panel and having it professionally blasted and patched and sealed etc.

thoughts ?

[MiraclePieCo]

Originally Posted by FAKKY

So whilst doing the main cab section ..... I was looking at the interior headliner.
PO did what looks like a good job from 5ft away ....

What is that stuff? I like it, may put it in mine.

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by MiraclePieCo

What is that stuff? I like it, may put it in mine.

Honestly Im not sure.

It sort of looks like thin carpet/matt thats been flipped and glued. Then spray painted black. Ill try and pay more attention if I can give you a better idea.

[FAKKY]

1st layer done .... thanks wife



foam seperator going on top followed by MLV layer after that.