New project! The "Red Herring"

[Advanced Design]

Real good progress. Love the gauges! That is a red herring on the gauge correct?

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by lower50's

I love the gauge. The truck is coming along very nice. The frame splice looks lines up perfect.

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

Real good progress. Love the gauges! That is a red herring on the gauge correct?

Thanks guys! And you betcha it's a red herring I was very happy with the artwork, but they've managed to make them look even better than I had hoped.

[ChuckDriver]

Yea, that forward tilt is excessive! Make sure to get the A-arms tilted to the rear to the factory spec's.

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by ChuckDriver

Yea, that forward tilt is excessive! Make sure to get the A-arms tilted to the rear to the factory spec's.

Oh gosh, yes! I was just making sure everything was trimmed narrow enough to fit.

I'm taking a break to eat. Spent multiple hours trying to get the cab square, then finally gave up doing comparative measurements left to right and just used a plumb bob:

I should have done this ages ago. SO much faster

Exploded the truck again (200" wheelbase anybody )


And started making my new cab mounts


At the front, my mount point is 6-1/4" outboard of the frame rail, and at the rear (using the inner hole of the original shackle mount) I'm 6-3/4" outboard. The material being used is 3"x5" box tubing, 3/16" wall. Should be heavy enough!

I'm going to perimeter weld the mounts on the outside and probably a few 1" beads inside, but I suspect I will put a pair of 3/8" bolts through the mount and the top flange of the frame rail, just as a safety.

I'm using 67-72 2wd cab mounts, which are 1-1/8" tall. In the front, that gets me exactly where I want to be just with the usual washers and such. In the back, I need a 2" thick spacer to meet the floor (the rear mount sits 3/4" higher to start with, and then it's an additional 1-1/4" up to the floor pan inside the channel of the mount). So I'm going to cut a piece of 2"x4" box tubing and box the ends to make the spacer. That way all four of my frame mounts are identical to make, easier for me.

[Advanced Design]

The plumbbob was a good idea. Mounts are looking good too.

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

The plumbbob was a good idea. Mounts are looking good too.

I just wish it hadn't taken me half the day to think of it!

Got the rest of the mounts made, fitted everything to the frame, beveled all the edges for welding, and then weld-thru primed it all. Whatever coating GM used on these frames is a huge pain to get off!


Also had to make a run to the store for hardware, 5/8" bolts to mount the cab and 3/8" for my "safety" on the mounts. I'm going to get high strength flange headed hardware for all this stuff in the end, but this will work for now.

Also, gauges are done! I should have them by end of the week





Only problem is, now I want to drive the darn thing! More to come tomorrow.

[oldman3]

Everything looks great...Jim

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by oldman3

Everything looks great...Jim

Thanks for the kind words, Jim!

Didn't get quite as far as I wanted to, but I made good progress.

All four mounts welded, drilled with mounts and "safety" bolts


This shows the passenger's rear mount. That's a piece of 2"x4"x0.188" box tubing, I tapered it and closed the ends with 1/8" plate - it's 2-1/2" wide at the top, where it contacts the cab, and 3" wide where it sits on the mount.


Bolted down, showing the bed-cab spacing, which is around 5/8" closer than stock.


Front and rear mounts shot from underneath (both passenger's side) - please pay no mind to the ugly vertical welds, I haven't run vertical on a stick machine in a LONG time ... they're strong though



The front mount bolts come right up in the little dimple in the floor where they always did. The rears come up here (the small flange head holds the spacer block tight against the floor, I will probably add some anti-squeak in there on final assembly)


I'm going to use that rear bolt as the tie in point for my seat mount / seatbelt, so it'll be well hidden when all is said and done.

[JJorgensen52]

Not a whole lot of visual progress tonight. I spent a lot of time cleaning frames around my splice, trying every which way to get the GM wax off, and trying to get things square. Also drilled out the snapped bolt in the hood (since it was off) and chased all those threads. Now if only I had remembered to buy new bolts...

Turns out I'm about 1-1/2" too long right now, and slightly out from straight. I have a plan to fix it, but meantime it's looking more frame-ish:


I'm trying to get the frame sections parallel, right now I'm using a standard bubble level which gets me in the ballpark at least - I'm going to pick up a proper angle finder this weekend when I get a chance to Sears.

The steering shaft is going to line up nicely, though I'm definitely going to need a universal joint at the top due to the angles.

Started refitting metal tonight to get an idea where I am in terms of where the wheels need to sit (aforementioned 1-1/2" out) - Right now, I'm looking at an estimated 7.5" under the boards at the front fender and about 10" at the rear... I think that's a little too much rake, but I'm going to get it together and let it settle before I decide if I need blocks or springs.



Looking more like a truck and that's exciting!

Also figured out what I'm going to do for a rear bed cross member at the rear sill (2"x4" box tubing laid flat across the lower flange of the frame is at precisely the right height). Then I'll bolt the gas tank straps to that and make custom bumper brackets to tie into it as well.

On the subject of beds ... anybody who's used repro rear fenders recently, any issues with fitment? I just noticed that I can't get all of the holes to line up at one time. It's 5/7 at best. ????

[lower50's]

Nice job with the mounts!! Nice lighting on the gauges.

[Advanced Design]

It is always nice when they start looking like a truck again...even just for a little bit. Good work on the mounts JJ.

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by lower50's

Nice job with the mounts!! Nice lighting on the gauges.

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

It is always nice when they start looking like a truck again...even just for a little bit. Good work on the mounts JJ.

Thanks fellas!

I'm committed now ... or maybe I need to be committed??




When I did my initial mock-up, I forgot to account for how much the G-body stub has to canted up to keep the caster correct. So I trimmed the ends to drop it in the truck frame (I was originally planning to make it flush at the top of the frame) to compensate.

Both sides are welded on the inside, anyway



I still have a lot of work to do tweaking, fishing and boxing, but this is a HUGE step forward.

Who can guess what my next issue is going to be from this photo?

[Advanced Design]

Good progress JJ. Next issue, radiator support placement. Ride height, verifying wheels are centered, trimming inner fenders to clear....that is a shot gun guess..lol.

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

Good progress JJ. Next issue, radiator support placement. Ride height, verifying wheels are centered, trimming inner fenders to clear....that is a shot gun guess..lol.

No kidding! Wheels are centered, I've had the fenders on and off a bunch of times. It's the radiator that's going to kill me. The frame is a bit higher than I had hoped ... looks like I may have to either shift the radiator forward in the core support, or kick the bottom out, on account of the steering box.

[JJorgensen52]

Time for my awesomely ... tiny... project update

Seriously though. I had to do a hub replacement on my daily ... what with the road salt from its first four years in New England, that turned out to be a 10 hour project ... and then the brake caliper seized up. Not my day!

So I worked on the truck today, getting the frame cleaned up a bit, planning out my rear cross member at the back of the bed, did a little welding and a lot of cutting and grinding.

The outside of the rails is going to be almost straight. You won't notice it at all once it's painted:



And I pulled the end of the truck frame up tight to the bottom of the stub and welded that up tonight. Practicing my overhead welding technique!


I am thinking, for the final welds when I fish this, I may take the cab off again so I can roll the frame outside and stand it on its side for better access.

[FarmerSid]

Nice progress. Good idea on flipping the frame for final welding. Much easier especially if you plan on boxing the frame.

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by FarmerSid

Nice progress. Good idea on flipping the frame for final welding. Much easier especially if you plan on boxing the frame.

Thanks! I am planning to do some boxing (ahead of the trans cross member), so I think I will flip it, but I'm getting better at this overhead welding business

Portent of things to come as far as frame shape:


Major project tonight was making plates to tie into the inner structural brace in the G-body stub. I will install an additional plate above this to cover the upper opening (both plates 1/8" steel) and then fish over the whole joint in 3/16" plate.



I will grind it all flush first, of course

Good news is, the frame is stiff enough now I could set the truck down and it would carry its own weight no problem!

[JJorgensen52]

Progress!




I'm going to dress the welds tomorrow, it was too late for angle grinding tonight.

The next step for this will be boxing the inside of the rail from the A-arm mount back about a foot, and then fish plating the outside.

But first, I'm going to get the engine dropped in so I can figure out the trans tunnel and trans mount, and weld the saddles on my rear axle and get it out for rebuild. Then I'll pull the cab and tip the frame up to get better welds on the boxing plates.

Set it down to check ride height! Bad picture, I took another one of the whole truck and it's even worse (I still haven't replaced my semi-broken camera ) ... anyways, it sits dead level without the motor in it. Which, by my estimate, means I'll have about 2" of rake when all is said and done. Right on the money!

[FarmerSid]

Coming right along. Looks good. Time consuming isn't it.

[lower50's]

Looking good.
Just some friendly info. Only grind welds that will be visible. The weld is much stronger the way it comes out.
Keep up the good work.

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by FarmerSid

Coming right along. Looks good. Time consuming isn't it.

You said it! My frame isn't anywhere near as much a work of art as yours, either

Originally Posted by lower50's

Looking good.
Just some friendly info. Only grind welds that will be visible. The weld is much stronger the way it comes out.
Keep up the good work.

Yes, very true. I'm really only grinding in places where I'm going to be fishing, so that the fish plates will lay flat. I was a little rusty on the stick machine when I started this, but the beads are starting to look pretty again

Good news:


Bad news (ish): I had hoped I could make the Olds motor mounts play nice with me, but that's not going to work. They're not tall enough, the motor hits the cradle before I can line up the bolt holes. So now I need to hunt up a set of SBC G-body motor mount brackets - the frame pads I can get easily enough.

[Advanced Design]

Really good progress JJ. Clip is coming out nice.

[JJorgensen52]

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

Really good progress JJ. Clip is coming out nice.

Thanks! It's worked out so far even better than I had anticipated.

Grabbed a set of motor mount brackets out of an '80 El Camino v8 at the boneyard... G-body is G-body ... had to trim them a bit to fit my adapter plates / clear the A/C mounting bosses on the block:


Married the engine and trans for the first time


And wala!


I got the protractor out, and right now I'm sitting at about 2.5* of tilt towards the rear on the motor/trans, with the chassis being about 1* towards the front for a total of 3.5* tilt from the baseline. Is there a number I should be shooting for here, relative to the ground?

I did have to trim the firewall a bit (this was done on the fly, I'll neaten it up before I build a new floor plate)


But I was able to use the original 67-72 trans cross member (it's slid about 1" back from the last set of original holes, so I have to drill four new ones)

Also in that photo, you can see the oil pan does hang down a bit below the K-member. The truck pan is pretty deep, GM and Holley both make shallower pans, so I may yet change it.

When stuff like this happens, I think this was almost meant to be:


That's the 200R4 linkage from the Olds, which just happens to be almost exactly the right size and shape. Who would've thunk that???? I will need to move the pivot point a bit on the frame. I should claim that I was intending this, but it's 100% providence, in this case

I did have to pull the driver's manifold, the outside stud was just hitting the frame rail and preventing me from getting the trans centered. I have a set of 2013 Camaro manifolds here which are narrower, just haven't installed them yet. Debating if I want to have them Jet-hot coated before I install them for good.

[FarmerSid]

Nice work. I'm in exactly the same part of my build. I'm going to have to make a bigger trans tunnel in my cab to fit the tranny.

From what I've read this morning, we need to set the engine at a down ward angle of 3 degrees. A few places said to get this angle from the front crank pulley as its 90 degrees to the crank and trans output shaft.

I will set my drive line angles with my chassis set at final ride height.

[OneOffStroker]

I agree with Sid. Your drivetrain angle should be around 3*. This is not necessarily from the ground, but more in relation to your frame. The angle should ideally be 3* down for the trans tailshaft, and 3* up on your rear end pinion. This allows the u-joints to work as designed. If you can't get exactly, 3*, say you get 2.5*, then make sure your pinion angle is also 2.5*. This is the way of things.