C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by rob32472

Your build looks great.Question: I am using the no limit chassis with an ls3 swap, what headers will work?

Hey man, I used Ultimate Headers. They are a bit more than the usual guys, but they are 321 stainless. They fit very well and eliminated many headaches and avoided full custom headers.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by Ramjet51

Chris....is that a Simpson 260???

Haha ... not quite, but it is an analog meter from Radio Shack I got back in the 1990s, you know, when Radio Shack actually sold quality electronics.

[Ramjet51]

I just love this build, finally have my cabling and ECU in the shop...almost like opening Pandora’s box...installed my bulkhead today....

[1971_c10]

Taking a break from wiring, I needed to do something for my throttle and the TV cable for the 700R4. One nice thing about this Holley throttle body is it has a spot specifically for the 700R4, no adapter plates to fix the pull ratio needed. However, the throttle body shifts the location of the throttle plate shafts relative to where they are in a carb, so a "regular" bracket like the Lokar one I had on my SBC won't work. Bummer. So I fab'd one on up.

Here it is ... 100% custom layout.


Installed and setup.


A comparison to the Lokar, showing the shift in cable locations relative to the throttle plate.


A 2nd shot showing the differences.

[1971_c10]

On to the vehicle wiring. This is where I'm currently at in the build. I've done a ton of layout options in my head, and am currently going down the path of running the wiring along the frame. This let's me take the whole bundle, route it down along the firewall to the frame, then send a branch line to the back and the rest to the front. One of the key reasons going this route was to keep all the wiring off the front clip so I could remove the front clip and still have a running truck. By front clip in this case, I mean hood and fenders, excluding the radiator support.

Always got to start with what looks like a disaster.


Initial routing.


Ok, now where I took a couple weeks delay. The vehicle power distribution. I had originally thought I could fit my power distribution over with the battery. And it technically does fit. But ... then I'd have very little access to the module to replace fuses/relays if they pop for some reason. By little access, meaning none without taking something apart. And by something I was looking at needing to take the battery out and possibly the battery tray or making an access point in the inner fender. Uh, both bad ideas. So I moved to the other side of the truck.

Here's a shot showing some tabs I fab'd up to mount the newly fab'd power distribution center I'm working on at the moment. Man it's dirty in there. But that will be hidden, so it will get wiped down but that's it.


And here's the power distribution bolted in checking some fit and clearances on the back side. Still a few items to add which I'll do in the next couple days (like my coolant overflow tank) and a couple holes to drill for wires.

[1971_c10]

Let's dive into the power distribution module (PDM) a bit...

First, here's some "old school" relays and circuit breakers. These are "mini" relays and what is still included with most relay kits for fans etc. But, that's not what OEMs use anymore. They take up way too much space. Shown here on a piece of aluminum for reference.


Here's a modern upgrade using the current micro relays and mini fuses that have the same ratings as the larger stuff. In fact, this little box can fit 6 relay and 12 fuses/circuit breakers. This pic shows 3 30 amp circuit breakers and 6 relays as one layout possibility. Compare that to the above which is 4 relays and 4 fuses/circuit breakers. In fact, I can fit 2 of these little boxes and have room for up to 12 relays and 24 fuses. The are fully configurable so I could fit 30 fuses in one box if I wanted. I will note now, the ECU power does not run through here. It needs to be wired to the battery and not in a PDM. This provides the cleanest power for the ECU which needs the cleanest power it can get. So the ECU runs over to the battery through a MAXI fuse. I also am tying the vintage air 12V line in with the ECU as it needs clean power too since it's running digital logic just like the ECU.


Here's the backside of the PDM I'm building, showing 2 bus bars, one for 12 V and one for ground. Both will be wired directly to the battery. Ok, the 12v will go through a 200 amp fuse with the alternator. Obviously no wiring just yet, however, I did complete the layout tonight. With the 2 boxes, I have loads of free space for future needs. I'm currently planning 6 relays (3 fans, AC, Head lights i.e. low beam and high beam), 3 circuit breakers for the fans, and 8 fuses for additional circuits. I'll finish up the fab work on the panel and get some paint on it then wire it up.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by Ramjet51

I just love this build, finally have my cabling and ECU in the shop...almost like opening Pandora’s box...installed my bulkhead today....

Thanks buddy! And right on!

[1971_c10]

Did have to end 2017 on a high note though... Picked up a new towpig for C10CJ. GMC 2500 HD Duramax 4x4. Shouldn't have any problems pulling C10CJ around to shows. And the hood scoop is actually functional!

[Ghostryder79]

L5P Duramax, G80 locking rear. 445 hp, 910 Lb ft...and zero known issues. Beautiful truck.

[Ramjet51]

Chris where did you source the Littlefuse PDMs?
Waytek? Digikey?
Yea....you should just give us a Parts list.....��

[solidaxel]

Originally Posted by Ramjet51

Chris where did you source the Littlefuse PDMs?
Waytek? Digikey?
Yea....you should just give us a Parts list.....��

Please !!
maybe a price list also
Thank you

[Trackman101]

...it would be cooler if you drove your C10 to the show!

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by Ghostryder79

L5P Duramax, G80 locking rear. 445 hp, 910 Lb ft...and zero known issues. Beautiful truck.

Thanks man!

------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Ramjet51

Chris where did you source the Littlefuse PDMs?
Waytek? Digikey?
Yea....you should just give us a Parts list.....��

Originally Posted by solidaxel

Please !!
maybe a price list also
Thank you

All was bought from Waytek. Been buying from them for many years. I'll put together a detailed list later today, but the housings were like $14 each, relays $2-$3 each, and then the terminals and seals (I buy those in bulk). I'll grab some part numbers from my order and put them in a table you can read. I'd say I'll be around $80 for this custom PDM excluding my labor and of course the fact I already have the tools.

------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Trackman101

...it would be cooler if you drove your C10 to the show!

Haha! I still plan to drive it to shows close to me, let's say less than 6 hour drive or within a 400 mi range. Beyond that, I'll pull it. For example, both LS Fest events are >9 hours drive from me. While I probably would drive it, I don't want to put that many miles on it. I'm even looking at the Lone Star Throwdown in TX. That's 1000 miles from me. So 2000 mi round trip. I know mileage restrictions are gone on insurance, but (not truly gone from state historical plates just yet) ... Mainly the miles on the truck for me. That's one downside to being in CO, everything "major" other than good guys Loveland is a hike. Plus I still have some reliability to test out before I truly trust it for even a 6 hour drive.

[SCOTI]

Thanks man!

All was bought from Waytek. Been buying from them for many years. I'll put together a detailed list later today, but the housings were like $14 each, relays $2-$3 each, and then the terminals and seals (I buy those in bulk). I'll grab some part numbers from my order and put them in a table you can read. I'd say I'll be around $80 for this custom PDM excluding my labor and of course the fact I already have the tools.


Haha! I still plan to drive it to shows close to me, let's say less than 6 hour drive or within a 400 mi range. Beyond that, I'll pull it. For example, both LS Fest events are >9 hours drive from me. While I probably would drive it, I don't want to put that many miles on it. I'm even looking at the Lone Star Throwdown in TX. That's 1000 miles from me. So 2000 mi round trip. I know mileage restrictions are gone on insurance, but (not truly gone from state historical plates just yet) ... Mainly the miles on the truck for me. That's one downside to being in CO, everything "major" other than good guys Loveland is a hike. Plus I still have some reliability to test out before I truly trust it for even a 6 hour drive.

Not to mention taking it to an event (like GG's or LS Fest) where you might 'lean on it' vs. a show (like LST or C10's In The Park) where it mainly sits still or just puts around in a parade circle. If it breaks during an event, you better hope it's an easy fix or that trailer will be sorely missed (having to find alternative transport for people + the vehicle).

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Not to mention taking it to an event (like GG's or LS Fest) where you might 'lean on it' vs. a show (like LST or C10's In The Park) where it mainly sits still or just puts around in a parade circle. If it breaks during an event, you better hope it's an easy fix or that trailer will be sorely missed (having to find alternative transport for people + the vehicle).

Exactly! I had that same thing in mind but was too embarrassed to admit something might break! haha. It happens though. The last time for me was on a buddies car. Some electrical fried itself during a cruise around the black hills. We weren't too far from the hotels or an auto parts store, but we had no tools and luckily a guy who trailered his ride had tools in his trailer so we could cut out the bad wiring out and splice in some temporary stuff until we got the car back to the shop. That was all about a 1 hour drive from the shop. Man I can't imagine if we were hundreds of miles out. Yes, there are auto parts stores around, but break something big on our customs and you're generally SOL in the short term (like something in the suspension). Hard enough to get a 3/16" flare fitting for brake line let alone a ball joint for a '71 C10 that's really off something else and that has even been modified to fit. Or try getting a big mouth rod end for a 4-link bar from Autozone. It shouldn't ever break but Murphy somehow finds a way to say otherwise.

[1971_c10]

Ok, back to seriousness. Here's the PDM parts list. Recall I order in bulk on the terminals and cable seals so there are way more there than needed for the PDM, but in actuality those are the mins from Waytek on that stuff. So if you bought what I bought that's what you'd pay and you'd have leftovers. I just pick up the fuses from the local auto parts store. Mini fuses or ATM is what they are called.

The PDM uses all metripack 280 series terminals, which is one reason I went with Littelfuse. That's a common item and the spacing is standard, so the relays, circuit breakers and fuses can all be bought at the local stores. Most pre-assembled PDMs are that way as well (using standard fuse sizes).

Bussmann (Eaton company) does offer some nice pre-assembled PDMS, but in those cases, the relays are all setup for positive (12 V) trigger. ECUs prefer ground trigger to avoid the transient voltage spike that results from pulling current from a coil. The voltage spike backs up the positive feed, so if you switch with the ground you stay away from the spike for the most part. In my case, 4 of the 6 relays are ground switched. The other 2 are positive switched, but those are my headlights, so the spike just goes back to the battery which doesn't care and "absorbs" the spikes. Since I was building a custom PDM I went ahead and changed the headlights to relays but instead of re-doing the entire headlight circuit, I simply hooked the output of the headlight switch to the relay. IMPORTANT, when doing that, ensure you use a relay with a resistor otherwise you will pull way too much current! The parts list below is for relays with resistors. ECUs actually prefer a diode relay to really help dampen the transient voltage spike, but then you need to remember to put the resistor in the circuit yourself with the fuse (assuming the circuit isn't already current limited in some way). Not a big deal as Littelfuse sells resistors that fit in like fuses. But you can also just switch the ground side of the relay and all will be ok.

The other nice thing about the Littelfuse unit is it is fully IP67 rated assuming you assemble everything correctly. That's the point of the cable seals in the list. All metro-pack and weather-pack terminals crimp in the cable seal. A TPA (included with the Littelfuse box) helps keep the terminals in place and acts like a strain relief. Basically that thing is built up just like you'd crimp a metro-pack connector. Which I did a video on that too linked down below.

A link to PDMs on Waytek (I'm not sponsored by them):
https://www.waytekwire.com/products/...ution-Modules/

All the item numbers are Waytek numbers. Where available the manufacturing part number is in the description.



And here's a little gem I found that I'll pass on. When you do wire braid or convoluted tubing, you generally wrap the branches in what Painless Performance calls "Self-vulcanizing tape" and then they subsequently sell it for a pretty penny (like $30 a roll). The stuff below is where Painless gets the stuff and you can see it is much cheaper. Waytek will let you buy just one, but I pick up 2 when I restock.

MetriPack Connector Overview - YouTube

[Ramjet51]

Thanks Chris that saves a ton of thought and effort...really appreciated....

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by Ramjet51

Thanks Chris that saves a ton of thought and effort...really appreciated....

No Problem! Glad to help out!

[solidaxel]

Thanks Chris!
From my professional past life as a Communication cable spilcer/supervisor I could have used a good hand like you!
You do some nice work

[crakarjax]

I used the same tape on my loom! Got it from amazon though and it's about the same price (36ft roll here http://amzn.to/2EPji4Z). I have also used it to seal coax cables when I didn't use sealed connectors and several other things... works amazingly well

I'm going to have to re-read your info on relays, but quick question -- you mention using ground switched relays except for positive switched for the lights. Could you just use ground switched for everything instead, or is it more difficult to wire up or something?

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by solidaxel

Thanks Chris!
From my professional past life as a Communication cable spilcer/supervisor I could have used a good hand like you!
You do some nice work

Thank you very much for the kind words boss!

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by crakarjax

I used the same tape on my loom! Got it from amazon though and it's about the same price (36ft roll here http://amzn.to/2EPji4Z). I have also used it to seal coax cables when I didn't use sealed connectors and several other things... works amazingly well

I'm going to have to re-read your info on relays, but quick question -- you mention using ground switched relays except for positive switched for the lights. Could you just use ground switched for everything instead, or is it more difficult to wire up or something?

I could have done all ground switched, and initially planned to do it that way. But when I started looking at what it would take to switch over the headlights to ground switch, I either had to completely redo the headlight switch/circuit or put a second relay in to flip to ground switching. I've done the latter situation before when you don't have an option to rework a relay box and you have an incompatibility.

When I started digging in to the light circuit, it quickly got messy as the park lights feed through the headlight switch so you have to have 12V coming in meaning I'd need to replace the headlight switch with something different and still be able to trigger the park lights (or do a complete redo of all lights). I did seriously consider this as it isn't as hard as it sounds. The hardest part would be picking out a headlight switch. You then just drive the park lights off a relay in the cab that feeds the 12V and the headlight switch becomes a "dead" switch just switching grounds. I'm actually saving this for a future project where I integrate an arduino based micro controller to do things like auto headlights, delayed exit lighting, interior lighting, etc. Painless used to make a box that did this stuff but it was $500. I can get a 32 bit Teensy for like $25, build a box to put it in and then drive a bunch of micro relays to do the same thing and more. Probably be under $100 all said and done. That's a project for after I get this thing driving though, so I just gave you all the thought I've put in to it right now.

So when phase 1 is done, don't worry, there is a phase 1.5 behind that (bed/bed floor, possibly roll bar inside the cab), then phase 2 which is the interior with more fancy electronics (like bucket seats, in-dash nav and that gismo from above). Phase 2 is a couple years down the road at this point, well the major stuff anyway.

[crakarjax]

Thanks for the explaination. I'm working on using an Arduino to control my air ride setup! It looks like I might switch to a raspberry pi though because I'd like to switch to Python now that things are getting complex... and auto headlights etc. are definitely on the radar after the air control is done.

[nuke1]

Great build so far!!!!!! loving how it is turning out.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by crakarjax

Thanks for the explaination. I'm working on using an Arduino to control my air ride setup! It looks like I might switch to a raspberry pi though because I'd like to switch to Python now that things are getting complex... and auto headlights etc. are definitely on the radar after the air control is done.

Right on! Maybe we could do some code trading if you're up to it. Of course, I need to write some first. Are you switching to python b/c you're not familiar with the depths of C? In the arduino IDE, just make your own header file and include it and BAM! you've got the world of C open to you (until the compiler gets stuck). I find C much more realtime friendly and I can control memory way better with C if I need to. Or if you're running out of space in the Arduino (assuming you're using an Uno or similar?) the Teensy is an arduino conforming board but that's it. 32 bits, 96 MHz clock speed, tons of memory and I/O out the wazoo on a smaller form factor. The thing that amazes me is how fast the Teensy boots compared to my Uno. I have a simple test code for RGB pixels, and when I plug the Uno in to the USB it boots in about a second from once the USB makes initial contact. The Teensy boots and is running before I even get the USB fully plugged in. You could also check out the adafruit feather series boards as you can get wifi and bluetooth on those things. Seems you could replicate the Accuair e-level setup if you got sporty enough (and wanted to go that far). The boot time is the only thing I'd caution on the Pi. Even stripped down, the Pi still takes several seconds to boot. I digress ...