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#1 |
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Re: GM Semis
You could make a pretty good case that GMC intended the V-6 to be either gas or diesel almost from the beginning. From what I understand, the V-6 family was intended to replace all the GMC built straight 6 gasoline engines along with the Pontiac and Oldsmobile V-8's that GMC was using the late 50's. Concurrently there was another program to develop a 4 cycle mid-range diesel engine, and at some point it merged into the V-6 program. The result was the Toro-Flow. Very true the Toro-Flow had problems (particularly the early versions) but so did most of the other big bore, short stroke mid-range diesels of the era, like the Cummins V-6 and '555' V-8. We could have a pretty good discussion about what was wrong (and right!) with the Toro-Flow. I may have mentioned in the past that I volunteer at a railroad museum, and we have a functioning D478 Toro-Flow in a bus. I'll post more about my experiences and what I have learned over the years about these oddball diesels in the next few days.
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1967 GMC CM-2500 Camper Cruiser, 351E V-6, NP 435 4 speed, Dana 60, and factory A/C. 2012 GMC K-3500 WT regular cab, 6.0L Vortec, 6L90. |
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#2 |
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Re: GM Semis
GMC wasn't the only one with this interesting concept, White Trucks called it a "giesel". This was a 470 cu in gas V8. One premium feature that the White engine had and the GMC gas engines did not have, was the "wet sleeve"
Last edited by factorystock; 05-29-2022 at 06:48 PM. |
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#3 |
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Re: GM Semis
That there was an idea that didn't pan out! The 'Giesel', sometimes called the 'Mustang VIII', was a small Cummins V-8 diesel modified to run on gasoline. It had lower compression pistons, spark plugs in the injector holes, and a Holley 2 bbl. carburetor. Needless to say it wasn't very efficient and sales were very low. I don't know if the engines were manufactured by Cummins or White. The Giesel was only around for a year or two.
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1967 GMC CM-2500 Camper Cruiser, 351E V-6, NP 435 4 speed, Dana 60, and factory A/C. 2012 GMC K-3500 WT regular cab, 6.0L Vortec, 6L90. Last edited by Bob B.; 05-30-2022 at 01:22 AM. |
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#4 |
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Re: GM Semis
The improved version was the Toro-Flow 11. This article shows what was done for durability over previous versions. Maybe too little, too late?
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#5 |
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Re: GM Semis
Possibly, but the new head gaskets and revised max R.P.M. governor setting addressed 2 issues the engine had. The Toroflow certainly had it's share of problems but so did most of the competitive mid-range diesels of that time, like the small Cummins V-6 and V-8's, the Ford Dagenham and Dorset, and the Internationals. In fact about the only reliable mid-range diesels back the 60's were the Detroit 53 series engines. A lot of the problems were caused by operator error. Engine overspeeding, poor quality fuel, improper maintenance, and overloading. Overloading was also caused in part by dealers, who would spec. trucks with a Toroflow to win fleet bids. Toroflow diesels were inexpensive compared to a lot of heavy duty diesels but equaled many larger diesels in H.P. and torque. Around the time the Toroflow II came out the engine was also dropped from the higher GVW trucks. Eventually the 220 H.P. DH 637 V-8 Toroflow was discontinued as well.
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1967 GMC CM-2500 Camper Cruiser, 351E V-6, NP 435 4 speed, Dana 60, and factory A/C. 2012 GMC K-3500 WT regular cab, 6.0L Vortec, 6L90. |
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#6 |
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Re: GM Semis
Good 'ol Detroit.
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#7 |
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Re: GM Semis
The thing that puzzles me about a Diesel in a '60 or newer GMC Conventional is their choice. The Detroit was the engine of choice in a GMC. Yet, the only way to get a Detroit in these trucks was to buy a Chevrolet (offered later on in the years of the '60-'66 trucks) In my opinion, they should have offered a 4-Cylinder Detroit in them from the beginning.
When I was driving my '62 6500 with the 478 Gas, there was a Chevy C-50 or C-60 in our same neighborhood at the same time. It was about a '65. It made me feel I had the lesser of the two, lol.
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#8 | |
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Re: GM Semis
Quote:
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1967 GMC CM-2500 Camper Cruiser, 351E V-6, NP 435 4 speed, Dana 60, and factory A/C. 2012 GMC K-3500 WT regular cab, 6.0L Vortec, 6L90. Last edited by Bob B.; 04-19-2022 at 01:53 AM. |
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#9 | |
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Re: GM Semis
Quote:
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#10 |
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Re: GM Semis
I'm not sure the exact year on this one. Mid '20s I think. Maybe first year
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"BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ |
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#11 |
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Re: GM Semis
Yes, the 4-53 was available in Chevy and GMC C series mediums from 1978 to about half-way through 1980, when it was replaced by the Detroit 8.2L. There was a lumberyard near me that had a few C-6500's with 4-53T's in them. Man they were noisy, sounded like they were going about twice as fast as they actually were.
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1967 GMC CM-2500 Camper Cruiser, 351E V-6, NP 435 4 speed, Dana 60, and factory A/C. 2012 GMC K-3500 WT regular cab, 6.0L Vortec, 6L90. |
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#12 |
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Re: GM Semis
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#13 |
At the body shop.
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Re: GM Semis
Gasoline forever
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#14 |
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Re: GM Semis
Nice looking 7500 Tandem.
It's either a '68 or '69.
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#15 |
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Re: GM Semis
This thread fuels my love for old GM Trucks! It's been a real gas looking at all the pictures. (gaggin' on the corn over here)
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"BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ |
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#16 |
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Re: GM Semis
My favorite 54-55.5 AD trucks
Few fb grabs
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#17 |
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Re: GM Semis
An Astro 95 with a KT 450 Cummins. Wonder how many of those were built.
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1967 GMC CM-2500 Camper Cruiser, 351E V-6, NP 435 4 speed, Dana 60, and factory A/C. 2012 GMC K-3500 WT regular cab, 6.0L Vortec, 6L90. |
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#18 | |
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Re: GM Semis
Quote:
At least one, and probably one of one.
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#19 |
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Re: GM Semis
Isn't that orange dump gorgeous? Sure is sharp anyway
The Cummins KT is a well respected engine for sure. Sure seems odd to see an Astro run one. That Mayflower gas job is hard to imagine these days. Twin tanks on this side. I wonder about the other side. I wish I could see a picture of this Budweiser boat hauler
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"BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ Last edited by special-K; 05-09-2022 at 08:24 AM. |
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#20 |
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Re: GM Semis
This is for C10-C90 Bill, special-k, KQQL-IT, and factorystock. I hope the rest of you enjoy it as well:
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1967 GMC CM-2500 Camper Cruiser, 351E V-6, NP 435 4 speed, Dana 60, and factory A/C. 2012 GMC K-3500 WT regular cab, 6.0L Vortec, 6L90. |
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#21 |
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Re: GM Semis
Thanks for posting, nice crisp engine shot. Good observations, indeed engine destined for a tilt with the LV chalk markings. Note how the silver "W" engine is not painted Chevy orange, must be a shock to car people. IMO, must be a pre '66 photo, '65 was the last year of the 348 and 409 for Chevy, in '66, Chevy offered the new 366 and GMC 401 and 478 in their heavies.
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#22 |
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Re: GM Semis
Impressive.
I was trying to see mine there with the Road Ranger behind it, lol. Thanks for the picture.
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#23 |
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Re: GM Semis
I was looking closely at the first V6 in the picture. 'LV' is written on the oil pan, and notice it has a crank-mounted fan, long heater hoses, a hydraulic clutch, remoted control shifter on the transmission and no air brake compressor. Just what you would expect the engine to have if it was going into an LV5000 (tilt cab with vacuum brakes). Behind that V6 is a Chevy High Torque 409. Since the GMC V6's were all made in Pontiac and the 409's came from Tonawanda I suspect the picture is of an engine dress line at a truck assmebly plant, not an engine plant.
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1967 GMC CM-2500 Camper Cruiser, 351E V-6, NP 435 4 speed, Dana 60, and factory A/C. 2012 GMC K-3500 WT regular cab, 6.0L Vortec, 6L90. |
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#24 |
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Re: GM Semis
Neat comparison
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#25 |
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Re: GM Semis
Since I'm finding gold
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