Tbi swap build thread

[pancake]

Hello again all,

Ok, I am finally going to do the TBI swap into my 4x4. I took it to Mt. Blanca over Labor adn that was the last time for the winter. I have time to finally do the swap.

I was going over the parts and forgot where some stuff goes

Can you please help me the following:

1)Where does the vacuum tube from the MAP sensor attach to the TBI?

2)Where does the Charcoal Canister hook to the TBI unit

3) Which side of the TBI, Drvier or passanger, is the fuel supply line and which is the return.

4) There is a fitting in the intake located in the intake plenum above the #8 cylinder. It looks like a vacuum hose was attached to it? Do you know where it might go?

5) the vacuum port on the back of the TBI unit labled F. Do you know what goes to this port?


Thanks again for all the great information and I am glad to see that this thread is STILL going.

[mcbassin]

I may be wrong but I think the Map vacuum hose hooks up to the port on the rear of the tbi in the middle. The fuel inlet is the driver side port. Not sure about your other questions because I have yet to figure them out on our swap yet.

[rfmaster]

Originally Posted by pancake

Hello again all,

Ok, I am finally going to do the TBI swap into my 4x4. I took it to Mt. Blanca over Labor adn that was the last time for the winter. I have time to finally do the swap.

I was going over the parts and forgot where some stuff goes

Can you please help me the following:

1)Where does the vacuum tube from the MAP sensor attach to the TBI?

2)Where does the Charcoal Canister hook to the TBI unit

3) Which side of the TBI, Drvier or passanger, is the fuel supply line and which is the return.

4) There is a fitting in the intake located in the intake plenum above the #8 cylinder. It looks like a vacuum hose was attached to it? Do you know where it might go?

5) the vacuum port on the back of the TBI unit labled F. Do you know what goes to this port?


Thanks again for all the great information and I am glad to see that this thread is STILL going.

I always said that the picture is worth a thousand of explanations. Attached photo is from passenger car TBI (B-Body). TB's used on trucks may not have the AC port, other than that they are the same. VERY IMPORTANT - MAP sensor should be the only device connected to the back side vacuum port, do not use T or hang anything else of that port.

Passenger side fuel side is used for return and driver side is fuel supply from fuel pump. Fuel return is smaller of the two.

[cjracing15]

If you have #1 at tdc you can make number one where ever you want. I like it in the stock location at about 5 a clock. Then ofcourse run your wires 18436572 clockwise. THis will get you close so you can crank it up. Then set it at o with the bypass unpluged with a timming lite. Good luck.

[pancake]

yes...that answers all my questions....Thank you.

[bumslie75]

Wow great one this has helped tons thanks guys

[cjracing15]

Auto zone (at least in my home town) has a press tester for tbi you can rent.

The problem you describe sounds like the one I had when I first started mine. WHat I found was a a pinched rubber fuel line.

Congatulatoins on at least getting it started.
Good Luck, Jamie

[cjracing15]

Pancake I belive you can run this without egr but you will have to get a chip burned with the egr turned off.
I this is the way you would like to go you can talk to Brain at tbichips.com This is a great site and he has been awsome to work with, in my opinon.

[work2play84]

ok guys his a list of wires that go to the bulk head connector on the harness

ppl- solid think a 10 guage -from what i can tell starter?
red-solid 10 guage -battery pos?
pink-solid 10 -??
tan-solid 16 -?
tan-white stripe-16 -?
blk-wht stripe -16-?
grn-solid-16-?
blk-solid-16-?
brn-solid-16-?
ppl-solid-16-?
ppl/wht and yellow-vss


now the under dash harness wires except the ones to the dl connector
ppl/w- 16?
gry/w-16?
org/blk-16?
pnk/wht-16?
ppl- solid-16?
brn/yel-16?


thanks alot guys for any help i can get a pic of the under dash wires if needed thanks JD

[rfmaster]

Originally Posted by work2play84

ok guys his a list of wires that go to the bulk head connector on the harness

ppl- solid think a 10 guage -from what i can tell starter?
red-solid 10 guage -battery pos?
pink-solid 10 -??
tan-solid 16 -?
tan-white stripe-16 -?
blk-wht stripe -16-?
grn-solid-16-?
blk-solid-16-?
brn-solid-16-?
ppl-solid-16-?
ppl/wht and yellow-vss


now the under dash harness wires except the ones to the dl connector
ppl/w- 16?
gry/w-16?
org/blk-16?
pnk/wht-16?
ppl- solid-16?
brn/yel-16?


thanks alot guys for any help i can get a pic of the under dash wires if needed thanks JD

play84
Thanks for posting photos of your harness - to get that stock harness in shape for installation on your 65 rig will require some serious gutting. And I am not talking about deer!

The first photo posted (with a twisted pair) contains several circuits that your 65 simply does not have or wired all together differently - AC, temp sensor, etc. Lucky for you I have recently pulled a complete engine harness of '90 burban. The 89 and 90 harness are very similar and this should help us to guide you along. I'll be posting photos of my raw harness after I have chance to mark it.
To do this transplant right (or at least for me to provide you with a correct advise) I'll need to know the state of your 65 engine compartment wiring harness. This way we can figure how to incorporate 89 harness ends with your 65. Also, be aware that 89 supplies a lot more current to the fuse box and HEI tends to draw more current than the old points use to pull.

Here is my first assessment of wires cut from bulkhead connector (next to PB) - it is incomplete at this time! It should be noted that there are no wires directly related to ECM passing through that bulkhead connector (vss gets conditioned inside instrument cluster).
Color - gauge - Function
purple - 10 AWG - Starter S terminal ?
Red - 10 AWG - Battery via fuse link in harness (via starter)
pink - 10 AWG - Ignition Coil (look for a funky white one pin connector)
tan-solid 16 -?
tan-white - 16 AWG - (Possibly set EST - look for a single circuit connector?)
blk-wht stripe -16-?
grn-solid - 16 AWG - possibly temp gauge in instrument?
blk-solid-16-?
brn-solid-16-?
ppl-solid-16-?
ppl/wht and yellow - 16 AWG - vss signal

//RF

[rfmaster]

'90 burban harness with connectors ID's. The only ECM related wiring that goes to the right is the set EST. Set EST is a single circuit (brown-white) to a single circuit connector. IMHO I would self contain all circuits directly connected to ECM in a stand alone harness (this is how after market harnesses are built). The alternator, power, starter, etc can be routed separately.



//RF

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by rfmaster

'90 burban harness with connectors ID's. The only ECM related wiring that goes to the right is the set EST. Set EST is a single circuit (brown-white) to a single circuit connector. IMHO I would self contain all circuits directly connected to ECM in a stand alone harness (this is how after market harnesses are built). The alternator, power, starter, etc can be routed separately.



//RF

Your ? on the left side of the pic looks like the TPS sensor plug and it is in the right area of the harness too if I'm not mistaken.

[bizzybody]

I'm attempting to use a drivetrain from a 1991 1 ton in a 1982 1 ton, so no emissions controls on either. (The 91 had a single exhaust cat is all, absolutely none on the 82.)

It has a rebuilt 700-R4 with the speedo drive changed to mechanical plus an external VSS from Jags That Run.

The 91 ran great* but now that I have it all in the 82, I cannot get the injectors to open up and the fuel pump runs all the time the key is on.

If I pour gas down the throttle body it will run. The fuel pump is new, in tank OEM type. I got a 40 gallon rear mount tank from a 1987 or so Suburban with TBI.

What do I look for to correct these two issues so that the pump will run a bit then stop until the engine is cranked then running, and the injectors never opening?

It has plenty of fuel pressure, it's soaked through the gasket around the top of the injectors. Excess fuel will come out the return port on the throttle body so the regulator is doing its job.

I installed new injectors and pressure regulator diaphragm and spring (which was broken).

The engine has new crank (cast steel Eagle) King bearings, new rings, new spark plugs and wires, new billet small cap HEI distributor. All the stuff it needs to run, which it will if the injectors and pump would work when they're supposed to.

I've also upgraded the instrument cluster from the idiot light one to the one with oil and temp gauges. Got the wires moved to the right places on the connectors for that.

Until the bleeping thing will start and run properly, it's a stalled project.

*I don't know how it ran great with badly worn crank and bearings and nearly 1/4" slop in the distributor shaft, but it did - until it got warm then it'd just stop. I presume from a sudden oil pressure drop once the oil thinned. Not a problem now.

[work2play84]

ok rf the underhood harness is gone on the 65 i junked it the wires were falling apart lol! now on the fuse block ive got one out of a 85 chevy truck i was going to use just to be safe becouse im sure the 65 isnt is mutch better shape then the underhood harness lol! there isnt really mutch to the 65 kinda nice lol just blower motor and lights! thanks jd

[rfmaster]

JD

Can you take couple of photos of that '89 fuse block. I did a lot of digging regarding engine compartment harness wires (fuse block) and some colors do not make sense.

But here what you need to know (in a nut shell).
GM uses red 10AWG for direct battery connected circuits.
10AWG Orange indicates is that circuit is fused battery circuit
10AWG Pink is ignition coil
10AWG Purple is starter solenoid.

What kind of ignition switch do you have on 65???? Do you have P/N switch in your 65? Gauges, idiot light, etc???

This looks more like a custom wire harness job. With this in mind I would break this conversion into two (manageable) parts. First part would be a basic power circuits into the cab, to ignition switch and fuse block. Once that done, second part is to bring in ECM wire harness.
There are couple wiring examples in this thread addressing similar problem.

//RF

[cheepin]

Awesome thread.Couple of questions.I have a Summit harness that has a fused fuel pump wire already.Do I need to tie this into the Comp?Also is B1 a switched 12V or constant?I would like to dumb the system down.What is the minimum needed to run the TBI.I am sure I will have more once I get to doing the wiring.
I guess I should tell you about the project.It is a CJ/Buggy thing.All the drivetrain is from a '88 1ton crewcab truck.FI454/SM465/205.I have the stock engine harness.And the Summit Racing universal wiring harness.I want the advantages of FI on the trail but want to keep it simple at the same time.Thanks Brady.

[TravisMartin]

I'm not familiar with the Summit harness, but assume it replicates the factory harness...B1 is hot all the time. Factory did it through fuseable link instead of a fuse for increased reliability.

Don't know about the Summit harness's fuel pump provision; is there a fuel pump relay? You want the ECM to control the fuel pump so that it only runs if the engine is running or cranking.

The factory bypassed the fuel pump relay with an oil pressure switch on some applications so that the fuel pump would run whenever there is oil pressure.

Why do you not use the factory harness? Incidentally, I'd be a buyer for that factory harness if you don't use it...the harness in my 90 454 crew cab has been burned and is a constant source of grief...haven't had much luck finding a big block harness in any of the yards around here...

For a basic system, you'll need unswitched 12V, switched 12V, and ground. You'll also need a cranking wire (connected to the starter solenoid) Don't believe you need the park/neutral signal since yours is a manual transmission. You'll also want to provide a "check engine" light. That should just about do it, assuming the harness connects all of your sensors etc. Does the Summit harness include the ALDL connector? You're going to want that for sure.

Travis

[TravisMartin]

I did a little research on the Summit site and found this link for a pdf of installation instructions for the Painless harness for TPI; TBI is very similar and should answer your questions:

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...0102_60103.pdf


Travis

[cheepin]

I will use as much of the stock engine harness as needed.I got the Summit harness for the rest.IE.tail lights,headlights,gauges.It is a basic kit.Not really for TBI.

[el phantasmo]

Great thread guys! Maybe too great b/c I have accumulated all the parts and pieces need for a tbi swap of my own. I have done my homework and I think I have a decent grasp of what I need and what to do with it. But I do have a couple of questions and I know you guys have the answers. I think my harness came out of a 1990 van don't know if it was a 5.0 or 5.7 or what ecm #. The ecm I have is a 1227747 AMUR from a 1988 c15 w/5.7. My harness matches the pin out cjracing15's in post #8, except for two wires are swithced. D2 is purple and goes to the MAP sensor and A11 is black and goes to the coolant temp sensor. My harness matches rfmaster's diagram in post #108. Should I swap the wires? My other question is VSS related. Would a universal cruise control speed sensor work? Sorry for the length and thanks for the thread it rocks!

[rfmaster]

Originally Posted by el phantasmo

Great thread guys! Maybe too great b/c I have accumulated all the parts and pieces need for a tbi swap of my own. I have done my homework and I think I have a decent grasp of what I need and what to do with it. But I do have a couple of questions and I know you guys have the answers. I think my harness came out of a 1990 van don't know if it was a 5.0 or 5.7 or what ecm #. The ecm I have is a 1227747 AMUR from a 1988 c15 w/5.7. My harness matches the pin out cjracing15's in post #8, except for two wires are swithced. D2 is purple and goes to the MAP sensor and A11 is black and goes to the coolant temp sensor. My harness matches rfmaster's diagram in post #108. Should I swap the wires? My other question is VSS related. Would a universal cruise control speed sensor work? Sorry for the length and thanks for the thread it rocks!

No problem on the length. Your ECM with AMUR BBC calibration was used in 1988 C/K 1500 with a 350 TBI/700r4 combo. Generally speaking wire colors used in GM EFI harness remained more or less the same. What's really important what those wires connect, ie sensor <-> ECM.

ECM D2 is a sensor ground - I have seen various colors used for this circuit, but truck based harnesses tend to use black with red stripe.

ECM A11 is another sensor ground and can be either black or purple. This sensor ground does not connect to the temperature sensor itself, but it uses a thermostat stud for a ground connection.

//RF

[250cows]

I'm putting a 1950 truck on a s-10 frame with 89 5.7 an 700r combo -- my question is -- my transmission has 3 wires coming out of it --tan/blk, purple, and blue -- what do these hook to? Also, I have a factory big 5 wire relay for fuel pump -- would it be ok to run all my pink wires through it (i.e. injectors and computer)?

[el phantasmo]

Thanks rf, good info. I found an explanation for the slightly different pin outs. Inside a C3 ECM D1 and D2 are solder connected and A11 and A12 are solder connected, so when the ground wires attached to the block all these pins are connected. I found a pic at

http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/s...7668#post27668

I also thought of a couple more questions. All of my senors came w/ my harness and I am not sure if it was a 5.0 or a 5.7. How can I tell if they will work the 5.7 ecm 1227747 AMUR? I am going to order some 3/8" aluminum tubing from summit for my return line. What is the best way to connect it to the rubber line and keep it from slipping?

250cows I am no expert so you might want to get verification from some of these other guys, but on my schematic: tan/blk-A7(TCC or shift light), purple-brake/stop light switch, and blue-c7(High Gear) Good luck with your project. It sounds cool!

[FRENCHBLUE72]

I have no idea....

[cjracing15]

You my friend have a vacuum leak some where. Be sure to check everything you touched on the intake swap. Go back over all your vac. hoses and check all you bolts.