2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by BMERDOC

A few points to ponder:

I looked up that 6147 number and found that several manufacturers use it. One being Moog in their Problem Solver line. Could it be that any cross shaft with the number 6147 has the index drilled at 1.5"? I think its completely plausible.

Crakajax crunched the numbers and found that for every .25" of movement a gain of 1.4 degrees is gained. So as an example:

My truck currently is 2.7 on the left side. Just replacing the shaft with the 6147 number should net me 4.1 degrees which isn't bad. If I drill the index at 1 7/8" (1/8" equals .7) my caster would be at 6.2 and at the 2" mark my caster would be at 6.9 degrees.

I can measure the Moog Problem Solver shafts that I recently purchased & compare them to my OE shafts that were removed.

[BMERDOC]

That would be awesome Scoti! I'm thinking the other lines could be re-boxed Moog parts or another supplier altogether making these parts for everyone.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by BMERDOC

That would be awesome Scoti! I'm thinking the other lines could be re-boxed Moog parts or another supplier altogether making these parts for everyone.

For what it's worth.... We redrilled the new shafts .750" & I was able to install the arms w/minor trimming to the bushing flange area & x-member. I'll measure them tonight for reference info.

[BMERDOC]

So you drilled them at a two inch centerline from the end? What did you use to drill?

[Domer]

Here are my measurements for everything I did to my lca.
7/16-20 x 1.25" Allen hex bolt
Stover lock nut and locktite

Head dia. - .650"
Drill - .653"

Drill at 3/4" offset

First hole at .9515" from shaft edge.

Distance - 9.0625" c-c of holes

7/16" drill bit for xmember

[picklito]

SCOTI: Looking forward to your numbers. Especially if you can compare Moog and OE pieces.

Domer: To clarify your numbers, are you saying that your stock hole was .9515" from the shaft edge and you moved it an additional .75"?

BMERDOC: That 6147 number has caught my attention, too. I'm sure lots of these "brand names" are just re-boxers cuz it's doubtful there are that many factories cranking out shaft kits for old trucks, right? But Moog claims "made in U.S.A." and I just assumed the others like Mevotech would be Chinese. Anybody know?

[Domer]

Negative, those were the measurements for the new front hole then went the 9.0625 for the next hole. I used a regular drill bit, but ground the flutes down shallow so the bolt would fit good. If your using the factory pins the hole doesn't need to very deep.
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[picklito]

Sorry Domer, I'm still confused. If your new hole is .9515" from shaft edge, this seems very far from the 2" from edge others are using... or... is it the other hole 9.0625" away that lands 2" from the shaft edge?

[Domer]

Now I can't remember.. Crap.. I'll have to check. I won't be home for a couple of weeks..
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[SCOTI]

Pics as promised.

First pic is of the original OE shaft as removed from the arm. The dimension I'm reading for the divot C/L is ~ 1.5" from the end of the shaft....

[SCOTI]

Next up is the re-drilled replacement Moog K6147 shaft.

It appears the 1/4" difference is the opposite way we would want it to go for caster w/it's ~1.25" C/L. It does answer why I was able to trim a minimal-moderate amount of material to get them to clear vs others possibly modifying their originals (or replacements that utilize the OE dimensions).

The problem w/trying to answer certain questions sometimes is it creates additional questions . . .....

[BMERDOC]

Hmmm. Well my Raybestos measure at the same centerline. I was hoping someone out there had the forethought to dial in a bit more Caster on replacement parts. I guess not. I'm taking the front suspension off my 67 in the next couple of days for some cleaning and painting, a disc brake swap, and the caster mod. I'll look over the cross shaft when I have them in my hands. I think I'm gonna have the machine shop drill at 2" and 1 7/8" at 90° apart to compare numbers on the rack. I think its be cool to machine a diagonal line into the shaft and a couple of flats for a big wrench for adjustment of caster. Just thinking out loud.

[picklito]

Ok now I'm thinking that there are multiple locations for the hole. Depending on which one you start with, moving the hole 3/4" is probably not the best way! Putting it a 2" from the end might be the more consistent dimension?

Ya- diagonal groove. I wondered that, too.
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[LostMy65]

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[HO455]

Just wondering if BMERDOC got the caster modification done on his truck?

[BMERDOC]

I did do it but the truck is laid up after a front end rebuild, disc brake conversion and a general redo of the engine compartment. It should be up and running soon and the alignment done. I'll come back and report what I found.

[HO455]

Good to know. I just finished mine and got the initial readings on the alignment rack. Not being anywhere near accomplished at this stuff as you I look forward to your results. I'm pretty sure I can get it drivable but I may have wait for your results to make real improvements on the alignment.

[HO455]

I was rereading your thread the other day and later it occurred to me you had been talking about milling several index holes to find the ideal distance. With your access to an alignment rack you could grind down the rivet in the saddle that indexes the shaft. After reassembling without an index, move the shaft around and find the best location to balance your alignment and the shim stack. Obviously you couldn't drive it that way but as a test bed it should work. When you are satisfied mark and mill your new index holes. Then it would just be a case of drill out and replace the rivets with more positive indexing cap screws

I drilled my rivets out after I found one side half sheared off and no way to positively position the shaft. When I looked at the other side I found that there was approximately an 1/8" of play between the rivet and the index hole. By machining the new hole to 3/4" and using a 1/2" cap screw I now have virtually no play. I did have to shorten the head of the cap screw as my index holes were not deep enough. Anyway its just a thought.

[BMERDOC]

Thats not a bad idea. I had thought of having a machinst drill the indexes, machine a groove connecting the two and machine flats on the shaft so it could be infinitely adjustable between the two positions.
Unfortunately, I am now a Realtor and no longer have the play time I once had with an alignment rack. I am working on finding someone that will let me rent a rack to experiment in my free time.

[HO455]

Sounds like big life changes. I hope it works out well for you. I look forward to your updates when things start rolling again.

[clay68c10]

I'll be doing the multiple holes in the cross shaft eventually, it will probably be a while before it's at a point where I can drive it and put it on the rack at work.

Had to get out of the flat rate world? Me too, I fix police cars for the city now.

[BMERDOC]

Nothing wrong with swapping to see what happens.

[0bad0boy7]

So I replaced all the suspension parts on my 1966 C10. The front seams to have been donated from a 80's C10. Problem areas are underlined

After replacement I had:
Camber: 0.1° and 0.4°
Caster: -4.4° and -4.8°
Toe: never a problem setting

After swapping the upper control arms my caster was great, but there was not enough room for shims on the bolt to fix my camber:
Camber: 0.5° and 1.4°
Caster: 5.7° and 6.9°
Toe: never a problem setting

So I guess the best idea is to swap the upper control arms to there correct position and just live with the negative caster. What do you guys think?

[BMERDOC]

So did you have any shims on the bolts after all the parts were replaced? You have a very odd situation.

[0bad0boy7]

Originally Posted by BMERDOC

So did you have any shims on the bolts after all the parts were replaced? You have a very odd situation.

I replaced the shims when I reassembled the truck and the camber was visible: tops pointed out. I came down on camber, into spec, when they were all removed.

After reversing the upper arms, I still had no shims, but the hunter machine was telling him to add more to the passenger side to get the caster and camber even, but there was not enough thread to add more than 1/2" shims.

I'm not sure what to do with this. I have already spent so much time and money on the suspension of this truck. I think I will have to just live with the -4 degrees negative caster and hope for a year to come when I can afford a complete engineered system like RideTech or something similar.http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/i...ilies/waah.gif