tons of info needs to be extracted from this thread

[oldman3]

Very nice detailed update...Jim

[bollybib]

REMOTE STARTER RELAY (1 of 4)

I experienced three incidents with the starter that led to this modification.

The first was on a drive home from the Pomona swap meet. I stopped to get some chow at a shopping center in Santa Ana. It was hot that day, in the 90s. I got my eats, moved the truck to a shady spot, ate my lunch, went to start the truck, and…nothing. I crawled underneath thinking I’d lost a starter connection, then fiddled with the neutral switch and wiring on the steering column in the cab. About half an hour, 45 minutes went by, still nothing. Then, lo and behold, it started.

When I got home, I figured it was most likely a dirty connection at the neutral switch, so I cleaned it up and everything worked fine until the second incident.

The second incident was similar, although I don’t recall the air temperature being too hot, maybe 80ish or so. On a drive back to Carlsbad from San Pedro, I stopped at the view point at the side of I5 in Pendleton. When I went to start the truck, again, nothing. It was getting dark and I was with my gf, fortunately she found someone willing to drive us home. When I got home, I called S&R Towing in Carlsbad and they brought the truck home for $140. In the morning, it started right up.

This time I took out the neutral switch (still a suspect in my mind) and found that it was out of adjustment (Service Manual Electrical-Body and Chassis 12-7, Neutral Safety Switch Replacement). I cleaned and adjusted it and put it back in and everything was good until incident three. I also started thinking about the fact that the insulation around the terminal on the purple wire at the starter was gone and several strands had broken away. It made sense that heat would increase the resistance enough at this point to prevent the solenoid from pulling in. So I added this to my list of suspects.

The blue line to the left is the where the switch was, it should be at the black line as shown here.

The third incident occurred at the Brothers meet in Anaheim. I sat idling for 40 minutes or so in the line to get in. I parked where the event dude designated, but the guy in the truck adjacent to me objected to the closeness. I went to start the truck to move over a bit, and, …nothing. By this time I was certain that it was a heat soak problem, and at the end of the day after cooling down, it started right up.

After this incident I spent some time evaluating the best route to take. I looked long and hard at ministarters, but I couldn’t justify the expense given that I hadn’t pinned the problem to the starter itself. I had considered installing a remote starter relay in the past so I could more easily hook up a switch to bump the motor. Access to the stock starter terminals is difficult and too close for comfort for me to a hot engine block and exhaust pipe. Also, my battery cables needed replacing, there was abandoned wiring flopping around (for the long gone points style distributor) and the battery tray had been hacked up by a PO.

Old battery tray

I checked battery specific gravity and it was fine. I also followed the Service Manual procedure for checking excessive resistance in the starting circuit (Engine-Electrical 6Y-41). I found high readings at the battery cables.

[bollybib]

REMOTE STARTER RELAY (2 of 4)

After all this, I decided to install a remote relay and revamp the wiring.

Wiring Diagram

This is my sketch that shows the revised wiring and added components. I made several preliminary sketches of the system as I went along, too. Because a PO had installed an HEI distributor and MSD ignition, I traced out all the wiring and made my own diagram of the As-Built situation before I began.

The first thing I did was select a starter relay. Then I figured out the lengths, gauges, and configuration of the three battery cables I needed. I got the relay and two cables from NAPA, the third cable from O’Reilly. I needed a fusible link and it was in stock at NAPA. I bought the relay, link, and the cables, then checked the terminals. The cable lug at the starter end needed to be a 45 to direct the cable away from the exhaust pipe as it comes off the starter. The lug hole in the battery-to-relay cable was too large for the stud on the relay. This left one undersized lug on the relay-to-starter cable that I drilled to size. I bought a heavy duty 45 lug for the starter connection, a correctly sized standard lug for the relay, and one foot of heat shrink. The heat shrink is advertised as “…adhesive-lined with a tough outer jacket protects against abrasion, vibration, and flexing. The adhesive (like hot glue) seals out dirt, moisture and chemicals. 3:1 shrink ratio”. I found a shop that crimped the lugs on for free and I put on the heat shrink myself. For some reason, no local auto parts or hardware stores had purple 12 gauge ignition wire so I had to get some online.

The main components needed for the modification

Once I had all the parts I needed, I went to work. The first thing I did was take out the old battery tray, clean out the area beneath it, and install a new tray. I had to move the radiator back a bit to do this. With the radiator moved, I had access to the head of a radiator support bolt that I could now hold fixed. It otherwise wouldn’t hold when I tried to tighten the nut from below. It had been causing a rattle so I eliminated that source of noise at last.

[bollybib]

REMOTE STARTER RELAY (3 of 4)

Then I removed the starter so I could install a bus bar from the battery terminal to the start terminal. I used a piece of copper from plumbing pipe to make the bus. I reinstalled the starter with the cable connected and fished the cable up to the proposed location of the relay, securing it properly along the way. I then installed the battery-to-relay cable. With both cables in place I was able to find the best place to mount the relay and that’s what I did.

The original wiring harness has a purple wire (start) and yellow/resistor wire combo (for a points distributor) that connect to the starter. My yellow/resistor wire is currently unused because a PO installed an HEI distributor. I decided not to hack off the yellow/resistor wire. Instead I pulled it back to the firewall terminal on the driver side and coiled it up in good fashion.

For the modification, the purple wire must be connected to the relay, not the starter. I cut off a portion at the end of the original purple wire where the insulation was brittle, spliced on the new purple wire, and rerouted it from the firewall terminal, forward to the radiator support, then across the radiator support and on to the relay. I installed a ring terminal and heat shrink on the end where it connects to the relay.

Thus I eliminated all small gauge wire going to the starter.

[bollybib]

REMOTE STARTER RELAY (4 of 4)

The other thing I wanted to do was install a service disconnect switch at the battery. I decided on a Wirthco knife switch. It makes it easy to kill power when servicing the truck by simply lifting the knife to disconnect the ground terminal.

I’ve had this system installed for about six weeks now. So far it works fine. I’ve had it idling in traffic in 90s temps and checked the starter and so far it hasn’t failed to turn over. Frankly, I think the culprit of the failed starts was this frayed purple start wire at the starter terminal.

Parts List

Battery tray…………………………………………………….....................………….60.49
Truck Shop

Remote Starter Relay……………………………………..................….……………23.69
NAPA STH59

Positive cable – battery to relay………………………………………............….17.23
OReillys/BWD BC16T
Lead top post, 4 ga x 16”, lug hole 13/32”
Aux Lead: 12 ga x 8" w/ butt splice

Positive cable – relay to starter…………………………......……………….......26.93
NAPA 717896
Lug to lug, 4 ga x 56", lug hole 1 dia 13/32", lug hole 2 dia 17/64"

Disconnect switch……………………………………….................…………….……27.00
WirthCo 20138
Performance Plus Connection (amazon)

Negative cable – battery to engine block…..........………………………………19.92
NAPA 712534
Lead top post, 4 ga x 26", lug hole dia 13/32"

Fusible link………………………………………………………….......................………4.49
NAPA 784695
Black, 16 ga x 9 1/4", stud size 1/4"

Lug at starter………………………………………………....................………..………5.75
4 ga HD 3/8 lug w/ 45
custombatterycables.com

Lug at relay…………………………………………......................……………….……..1.59
4 ga standard 5/16 lug
custombatterycables.com

Heat shrink……………………………………......................……………………………..4.76
050-B-M-HS
12 inch 0.50 black medium
custombatterycables.com

Ignition wire……………………………………......................…………………..……..13.94
124F
12 gauge primary automotive wire, 12 ft. purple
wiringproducts.com

Wire Connectors, insulated crimp……….................………………………….…….3.23
-Ring Terminal, Noble 12-10 AWG, 10 stud
-Butt Splice, Noble 12-10 AWG, butt
Most any hardware store

Insulated cable clamps……………………………..................………………………..4.09
Most any hardware store

TOTAL………………………………………………….......................……………….$ 217.87

[bollybib]

Originally Posted by oldman3

Very nice detailed update...Jim

I appreciate your comments as always. Thanks.

[oldman3]

Jim, very nice write-up on the starter relay. One thing I started doing many years ago, is to run the negative cable from battery down to the starter, remove one starter bolt and attach the cable with the bolt. Now you have a great circuit for the starter, and have never had problems that comes with heat. I agree with you on the purple wire, that is a problem in itself....Jim

[oldblue1968chevy]

Another AWESOME writeup, you do aweseome work no corners skipped good job glad to see you posting

[camrycurt]

Originally Posted by bollybib

MORE AND MORE MISCELLANEOUS FIXITS (8 of 8)

Trim

I bought some new repro clips for upper trim, but I didn’t like them much. The stock ones are stouter and easier to remove and install without destroying anything. But, I was missing a few clips so I made do with the CS repro ones.

Jim,

Was the clip-in part of the repo trim clips the same size as the originals so that they fit into the stock diameter holes?

I'm adding trim to my truck and am going to have to drill holes for the push-in repo clips before I can order them, and I just want to make sure that if I drill the stock hole size it'll be correct when the repo clips arrive.

BTW, what are "CS repo" trim clips? Is that a manufacturer or a vendor?

Thanks for the help and this awesome thread. Your thread is my go-to thread for inspiration and guidance.

[bollybib]

Thank you to readers Jim and Rick.

Curt,

The repro clips held in the stock holes, but not with the same positive grip as the original clips. "CS" is my opinion of the clips (has to do with chickens and their leavings). I bought them from Classic Industries (part number T1422).

It's hard to beat OEM parts. The originals are designed to pop out without damage and can be reused. The retainers on the repro ones will bend backwards when removed and probably won't be good for another install. I used them for a repair, so I found them satisfactory. I only used two or three as I recall.

If I were you, I'd get some clips and check them out for fit before drilling anything. Lots of guys use the adhesive type with success, too. Then you don't have to drill all those holes. It's worth checking out. I didn't really research the subject in depth since I wasn't installing all my trim from scratch as you seem to be doing. I'm sure you can find a load of info on this subject in the Board archives.

Best of luck.

[treveiger]

You really know how to describe stuff in so much detail that I felt like Ive done it . You do great work. Thank you for all your help.
Posted via Mobile Device

[bollybib]

FUEL LINE (1 of 6)

I’ve read dozens of threads on this site that discuss the issue of hard vs. flexible fuel lines. Over time, I was convinced that a 100% hard line was the way to go for reliability, longevity, and safety. These trucks came out of the factory with double flared steel tubing from pump to carburetor, so I decided I would strive to do the same.

A BIT OF HISTORY

When I got the truck, there was no fuel filter or regulator going to the Edelbrock carburetor. As I worked my way through various fuel system problems, I cobbled together a line from the fuel pump to the carburetor. In its final configuration it worked well for a year, even with the infamous glass filter.

Mickeymouse comes to mind, but hey, it worked.

The upside of this configuration is that it was easy to make. All I had to do was cut hose with a knife and bend tubing with a cheapy bender. The downside is it’s a temporary solution.

The Serpent Removed

DESIGN

OK then, time to get rid of the old and start on the new. I sat down at my desk and worked my way through several options. I went through half a dozen or so arrangements of fuel lines. When I considered using braided hose, the cost of the fittings drove the price sky high. Most of this stuff IMO falls into the category of appearance items, and I had drifted off to flexible lines, so I refocused and moved on.

Here are two of several sheets of notes I made.
I’m trying to figure out what I want to do and the materials necessary to do so.
I had a good time playing with the flex/-AN stuff because there was so much to choose from.

In an attempt to eliminate the pressure regulator, I went back and looked at the fuel pump. I was running a NAPA M6624 that produced 8.3 psi at idle and needed regulation (5.5 psi to the Edelbrock carb). Edelbrock sells a pump that delivers 6 psi at idle, but they want around a hundred bucks for it. I found a service replacement pump at NAPA (M4685) that was rated at 5 to 7 psi. It was only $18.99 + tax so I figured what the hell, I’d try it and see what happened. Well, it delivered 7 psi at idle so I concluded the best thing to do was use a regulator.

I spent a lot of time looking at fitting catalogs and online parts vendor’s sites. I found Summit’s site user friendly for finding parts and assembling lists. They have a huge range of parts and putting them in your Cart is a good way to evaluate cost.

At the carburetor end, I liked a Summit product that combined in one part the fuel filter and gauge with the carburetor inlet fitting (“filter/inlet housing”). To see if one of my proposed configurations fit, I made a mockup combining the filter/inlet housing and the regulator, and it looked like I had plenty of room. I made the mockup by scaling parts pictures off of the computer. I thought I’d try using 37 degree single flares on the tubing because -AN fittings were abundantly available. When my conceptual design was completed to my satisfaction, I committed to a purchase order for parts.

Checking for fit with the filter/inlet housing and regulator mockup.

[bollybib]

FUEL LINE (2 of 6)

CHECKING THE HARDWARE

When the order arrived, so did the first problems. I had intended to fasten the regulator directly to the filter/inlet housing with a 3/8” NPT nipple (see the picture above). However, it turned out there wasn’t sufficient space to get 3/8” tubing into the bottom of the regulator due to a conflict with the vacuum tree fitting on the intake manifold. Also, service replacement of the fuel filter was complicated. I concluded I’d have to mount the regulator elsewhere.

Another problem was making a 37 degree flare with the tool that I bought from Summit. The tool would not hold the 3/8” steel tube in place when I attempted to flare the end. So I sent the tool and the –AN fittings back (full refund) and abandoned the 37 degree flare idea. Since I already had a decent KD Tools 45 degree flaring tool, I then considered using single flare SAE 45. However, as I read through literature on flared tubing, I learned that single flare tubing connections are less resistant to vibration and more prone to crack than double flares. The only reason I had been avoiding double flares until now was because I was having a hard time finding the correct NPT to inverted flare adapter. “This part can be found”, I said to myself. So I went back to square one and stuck with my original goal of using double flares at the ends of the tubing.

Here is a good summary of the differences between the two types of flare.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ...dev_216279.pdf

Single 45 flare – p. 41
Double 45 flare – p. 36

I finally found a supplier and ordered the 3/8” M-NPT x 3/8” tube inverted flare adapter fittings. I also bought two straight five foot sticks of 3/8” tubing with prefabricated flares and tube nuts at both ends that would be used for the final installation (the coiled stuff is hard to get nice and straight). I would cut off the prefabricated flares and use the tube nuts on my own flares.

While waiting for the fittings, I looked for a suitable location for the regulator. I decided to mount it to the inlet manifold at the front of the engine. In this location, it would act as a 90 degree transition for the tubing (vertical from pump, then horizontal to carburetor) and would require two sections of tubing. I made brackets out of wood to help locate the regulator and design the support bracket. I also considered clearances needed for future installation of the stock air conditioning compressor brackets by referring to a mockup I made up.

AC bracket mockup used for reference.

BENDING THE TUBING

Once I had a fix on the regulator location and bracket configuration, I started to work on bending the 3/8” steel tubing. I discovered immediately (not to my surprise) that my $6.99 Harbor Freight bender wasn’t going to cut it. After some research, I bought a Ridgid Model 406 for use only with 3/8” tubing. As soon as it arrived I made a few trial bends. A good tool sure makes a difference ! On 180 degree bends, a slight flattening was noticeable on the outer circumference, but otherwise, nice smooth bends.

A fine bender, indeed.

I had about five feet of 3/8” coiled tubing and a few other pieces on hand that I used for practice bends. I took my time and made a lot of measurements. I tried using the stiff wire method to make templates but they weren’t accurate enough. I got the best results by trial and error using actual tubing and measuring the results. Eventually I got the dimensions and procedure down so I took one of my straight pieces of tubing and bent and flared the fuel pump outlet end. I only made enough bends so that it stuck up vertically near the water pump. Next I went to work on the tubing coming from the filter/inlet housing. Similar to the pump end, I made bends only so far as to get the tubing past the carburetor. With the ends of the two tubing sections flared and fastened in place at their ends, I could mark the locations of the final bends so they would accurately mate to the regulator.

I made this tool to pinch off the inlet hose to the pump and
cut off the fuel supply while everything was disconnected downstream.



Left: final dimensional drawing for the tubing at the pump outlet
Upper right: final dimensional drawing for the tubing at the filter/inlet housing
Lower right: template for regulator bracket



Here are the two tubing sections before making the final bends into the regulator.
The regulator bracket attaches where the bolt sticks up on the manifold.
The tubing needed to clear the thermostat housing bolt. The socket
helped me figure out the position of the regulator so the bolt will be accessible.

[bollybib]

FUEL LINE (3 of 6)

The next thing I did was fabricate the bracket. I used a piece of ¼” thick aluminum I had on hand. I’d rather use steel but I don’t have metal working tools that cut and drill hard materials well. With the aluminum, I was able to use a metal cutting blade in my jigsaw to shape it according to my wood template and use my small bench drill press to make the holes, no problem. After the bracket was complete, I mounted the regulator.

Regulator with inlet tubing connected. A short stub
on the outlet was used as an aid in determining offset
bend points on the other section of tubing.



Another view of same.

With a tube nut screwed into an inverted flare adapter fitting, I had a reference point from which to precisely locate the tube ends. With a lot of check, double check, and triple checking, I made the final bends and flares. Both sections fit well and thankfully I didn’t have to redo anything. The tube ends fit up real nice and I didn’t have to force anything to get the tube nuts to engage and tighten properly. I had a few minor leaks when I first cranked the engine, but a little snug up on the tube nuts and they went away.

The two completed tubing sections.
Top: Regulator to filter/inlet housing
Bottom: Pump to regulator

When I was preparing to make the offset bend at the regulator end of the upper tubing, I discovered an error in the instructions for using the bender. By following their instructions, I was unable to bend a 45 degree offset to the required offset dimension. After some research, I found that their rule of thumb was for a 30 degree offset bend, not a 45 as indicated in the instruction sheet. I added a note with the proper multipliers for future reference.

[bollybib]

FUEL LINE (4 of 6)

SUPPORT BRACKET AND PCV HOSE

I made a second bracket to support the filter/inlet housing. The cylindrical end that contains the fuel filter is massive, and being cantilevered out like that it looked like it would want to rotate at the inlet fitting. I found a steel corner bracket that worked with a little modification. The base of the bracket is mounted on a carburetor stud (I had to buy a longer one) and the other end clamps to the cylindrical section holding the filter.

Filter/inlet housing secured to bracket.

The last item was the PCV hose. It needed to be rerouted because the inlet/filter housing was now in the way. All I had to do was turn the air cleaner extension piece about 90 degrees counterclockwise and fab up a new hose. I used two 90 degree sections of molded ¾” hose connected by a coupling to replace the original single 90 degree hose. The original clamps were still good so I reused those.

Rerouted PCV hose

[bollybib]

FUEL LINE (5 of 6)

COMPLETED FUEL LINE

Out from fuel pump,


up to regulator, then out,


across the base of the carburetor,


and in to the inlet/filter housing.

Afterwards and while I was writing up this post, I rerouted the spark plug wires some, cleaned up the electric choke wiring, and made a hard line for the vacuum advance. It will look a lot better when I get the intake cleaned and resealed, put on new wires, and paint a bit.

[bollybib]

FUEL LINE (6 of 6)

PARTS LIST

Tubing bender……………………………………………................…...$ 62.39
Ridgid Model 406, Catalog No. 36097
Build.com

Brake line, universal steel hydraulic, 3/8” x 60” (2 ea)………….17.22
BK 8131245
NAPA

Inverted flare adapter (4 ea)…………………..........……………………..8.96
3/8 invert x 3/8 male pipe
AllensFasteners.com

End plug, Allen, pipe, 3/8” (2 ea)………………........…………….……..8.42
RUS 662051
Summit

Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant w/ PTFE………….…6.45
765 2648
NAPA

Fuel Line, Chrome, Carter/Edelbrock, Kit………….......………………40.18
SUM G1523 1
Summit

Fuel regulator, polished……………………………….…..........……....….26.41
SUM G3032
Summit

Carburetor stud……………………………………………………................…2.05
5/16-24 x 7/8 x 5/16-18 x 9/16 = 1 ¾ overall
AllensFasteners.com

Hose clamp………………..…………………………………................….…….1.61
1 ¼” – 2 ¼”
Ace Hardware

Curved radiator hose, ¾” (2 ea)…………………..........…………………18.95
DAC 70023
Summit

Heater fitting, ¾ hose to ¾ hose…………………………........……….……8.07
BK 6601527
NAPA

Fuel pump…………………………………………....................…….……………20.46
M4685
NAPA

Brake line, universal steel hydraulic, 3/16” x 51”……………........….7.53
BK 8131245
NAPA

TOTAL……………....................……………………………….………….……$ 228.70


Most of the materials and tools I used are in this pic.


1 Ridgid tube bender
2 Fuel line pinchoff tool
3 Stray wire clip
4 Bag with gaskets and O-rings for filter/inlet housing
5 Fuel pressure gauge
6 ¾” hose connector
7 Bolt for regulator bracket
8 Carburetor inlet fitting
9 3/8” M-NPT x 3/8” inverted flare adapter
10 3/8” NPT plug
11 Aluminum stock for regulator bracket
12 Bracket for filter/inlet housing
13 Metal cutting saw blade
14 Carburetor studs
15 Wood bracket (first mockup)
16 Fuel pressure regulator
17 Filter/inlet housing
18 Tube nut 5/8”-18 x 3/8” tube
19 3/8” steel tube (pump end complete)


CODA

So there you have it, a 100% hard fuel line.

THE END
(until the next project)

[oldman3]

What can I say, as usual a very fine detail install, nice...Jim

[bollybib]

Thanks again, Jim. My thread doesn't have the glamour that many others do, and it isn't very interactive by design. However, there has been a slow and steady increase in the number of views over the past year or so, so I hope people are finding useful information here.

Hope all is well with you, take care.

[bollybib]

Originally Posted by treveiger

You really know how to describe stuff in so much detail that I felt like Ive done it . You do great work. Thank you for all your help.
Posted via Mobile Device

You're welcome, Trev.

[litew8]

Nice work Jim How's it been driving lately?

[Stricklinator]

Great job Jim (as usual)! I am running a hodge podge of steel and rubber lines with a filter to my Holly style Summit 4-barrel. I have had nothing but trouble with the rubber sections leaking no matter how hard the clamps are tightened. I also don't have a regulator in my system; what happens if the pressure is too high?

Thanks,

Paul
Posted via Mobile Device

[Low Elco]

I greatly enjoy your posts. I hope I'm riding in whatever you engineered! Daaaang! I'd have just rolled out there with some AZ green tube (bends great, BTW) and banged 'er out! Although I wish I had your forethought and patience. Cool ol' truck!

[bollybib]

Originally Posted by litew8

Nice work Jim How's it been driving lately?

Thanks for asking, it's driving great ! I still shake my head in disbelief at times that this truck turned into such a nice driver.

Originally Posted by Stricklinator

Great job Jim (as usual)! I am running a hodge podge of steel and rubber lines with a filter to my Holly style Summit 4-barrel. I have had nothing but trouble with the rubber sections leaking no matter how hard the clamps are tightened. I also don't have a regulator in my system; what happens if the pressure is too high?

Thanks,

Paul
Posted via Mobile Device

Hi Paul, Pressure too high can cause the carburetor to flood if the pressure overcomes the force holding the needle valve down. I read a couple of install blurbs for Holleys and they aren't as adamant about pressure as Edelbrock. I read one said 5-7 psi is OK which means in that case you wouldn't need a regulator. Just read the manufacturer's recommendation and you can't go too far wrong.

About your leakers, make sure your hose IDs and tube ODs are the same size. If the metal side is out of round or corroded that could cause leaks, too. I used AviationFormAGasket on one tube/hose connection on my old setup cuz I couldn't get it to stop leaking and that worked.

Originally Posted by Low Elco

I greatly enjoy your posts. I hope I'm riding in whatever you engineered! Daaaang! I'd have just rolled out there with some AZ green tube (bends great, BTW) and banged 'er out! Although I wish I had your forethought and patience. Cool ol' truck!

Thanks. I used to dread steel tubing, but now, I got the hang of it and I really liked bending the stuff. Good tools and materials help a lot !

[thelonerife]

Very informative build. I'll have to try some of the part #s you've used. Good job!