Restoring Rusty

[Gregski]

decided to remove the rockers, didn't realiaze there was that spacer washer thingie under the nut

[chevybuldr]

Originally Posted by Gregski

Thank you very much for that detailed explanation. The engine specs I am following do call for two different types of valve seals, one kind for intake another for exhaust, would that have something to do with your explanation.

10212810 - Intake (Valve Stem Seal Type: Umbrella, Valve Stem Diameter 0.344 in., Valve Guide Diameter (in): 0.500 in.)

12564852 - Exhaust (Specs unknown)

No the retainers are what goes on top of the spring and what holds the keepers. Again a gasket set is going to have those seals, But you have to get a set that matches the year of the heads. Remember your mixing old with new now.

[Gregski]

I cleaned the Timing Cover next, then I realized it has some sort of built in rubber seal, well obviously but can only that seal be replaced or did I just waste my time making this cover shinny and now I have to get a new one

[chevybuldr]

Originally Posted by Gregski

I cleaned the Timing Cover next, then I realized it has some sort of built in rubber seal, well obviously but can only that seal be replaced or did I just waste my time making this cover shinny and now I have to get a new one

Knock out the old seal from the back side and replace with a new one. Make sure your balancer is not worn either. You should have all the seals and gaskets in a gasket set. Order a full set from Summit.

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by Gregski

I cleaned the Timing Cover next, then I realized it has some sort of built in rubber seal, well obviously but can only that seal be replaced or did I just waste my time making this cover shinny and now I have to get a new one

That seal is a cartridge lip grease seal driven into the bore in the cover. Any half decent engine gasket kit will have it.
If you're re-using the harmonic balancer you can get a "lip relocator" type seal so the lip isn't riding in the 42 year old groove in on the balancer snout. The other option is a Speedi Sleeve to cover the groove on the balancer snout.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by hatzie

That seal is a cartridge lip grease seal driven into the bore in the cover. Any half decent engine gasket kit will have it...

This darn timing cover seal is about the only thing that kicked my butt today, I was able to get the rubber piece out using a flat screw driver, but am I supposed to pop out that metal ring, cause it don't wanna come out

I pretty much tried everything to no avail

[KevinCowTown]

Originally Posted by Gregski

This darn timing cover seal is about the only thing that kicked my butt today, I was able to get the rubber piece out using a flat screw driver, but am I supposed to pop out that metal ring, cause it don't wanna come out

I pretty much tried everything to no avail

You are fighting a lot of surface to surface adhesion (the entire outside surface area of that old seal) rusted or stuck to the timing cover.

Before you put a torch and a lot of heat to it (and risk warping the timing cover) would you take your dremel and a little cut-off wheel and carefully cut a slot in the collar/ rim of the seal? If you can weaken it there you can probably collapse the seal, prying it away from the inside radius of the timing cover with the tip of a flat head screwdriver?

No warranty with my advice.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by KevinCowTown

You are fighting a lot of surface to surface adhesion (the entire outside surface area of that old seal) rusted or stuck to the timing cover.

Before you put a torch and a lot of heat to it (and risk warping the timing cover) would you take your dremel and a little cut-off wheel and carefully cut a slot in the collar/ rim of the seal? If you can weaken it there you can probably collapse the seal, prying it away from the inside radius of the timing cover with the tip of a flat head screwdriver?

No warranty with my advice.

your suggestion made me think, and man that thing was in there so tight I almost thought it was all one piece joined together in holy matrimony,

but I took some pliers and went around and bent the lip out, so it became a pipe instead of bent in, that also made the metal crack sorta like cutting it like you suggested, then using what is quickly becoming my favorite tool THE VISE GRIPS I ripped her right out, I guess the secret was going out there late at night in my pijamas, and not being skierd!

[Gregski]

decided to straighten out a few dents with some precision tools

[enaberif]

the timing cover seal is easy to replace but make sure you support it properly to not warp it

[enaberif]

You are planning on putting new rocker arms in right? LOL. I wouldn't resuse any of those especially if they have that deep of groves.

[lkfldredneck]

Make sure you check the Valve guides for play while you have the heads off and everything off them. It would have been a good idea to keep each valve in the same space it came off of. not sure if you did that or not..

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by lkfldredneck

Make sure you check the Valve guides for play while you have the heads off and everything off them. It would have been a good idea to keep each valve in the same space it came off of. not sure if you did that or not..

I did that each valve and companion bits are in the same labeled zip bag.

[Gregski]

lets take a closer look at each of the valve guide pairs and studs

[Gregski]

and now lets take a look at the chambers and study the valve seats

that looks great to me

[Gregski]

I started cleaning the valves next, and the face on the # 2 Exhaust Valve one looks pitted, its the first one I cleaned

now since this is a Budget DIY Adventure, I am entertaining the following two options, just lap them and see how much better they get, or buy new exhaust valves and lap them in

also going to disassemble my old heads and see how bad those exhaust valves were/are, after all that engine ran, so question is how bad can the exhaust valves be and still move the truck, and plus I learn by comparison so it will be a fun stare and compare exercise

Wow replacement GM Exhaust Valves part number 12550909 are $17 bucks a pop, EXPENSIVE!

some before after cleaning pics

[Gregski]

then it was time to clean the # 2 Intake Valve and check it out, it looks better than the exhaust one

heck speaking of comparing valves, it wouldn't hurt to buy new ones and compare these to new ones, what a novel idea, ha ha

Wow replacement GM Intake Valves part number 10241743 are $16 bucks a pop, EXPENSIVE!

couple before and after cleaning pics

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Gregski

Wow replacement GM Intake Valves part number 10241743 are $16 bucks a pop, EXPENSIVE!

Try pricing vales from Sealed Power or Competition products, Make sure they have only one groove.

Be sure to "lap in" the valves to the seats using valve grinding compound and a tool like this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/oe...2c4aAoYY8P8HAQ

[Gregski]

so 2 valves cleaned, 14 to go, I hope to knock them out tomorrow if for no other reason to be able to inspect them closer

[enaberif]

pitting is fine it's the valve seat you need to be concerned about.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by enaberif

pitting is fine it's the valve seat you need to be concerned about.

that is the first piece of good news you gave me on this rebuild, lol, thanks

[SkinnyG]

Now is a good time to modify the heads for more lift, and run 1.6 rockers.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by SkinnyG

Now is a good time to modify the heads for more lift, and run 1.6 rockers.

I agree but I am trying to be good and follow that GM recipe, plus I dont honestly comprehend fully what changing the rocker ratio will effect, increase the lift but at what cost, make the cam work harder?

[chevybuldr]

So a couple of things while looking at your heads just thru the pictures. The valve seat width is WAY to big to be able to lap the seats in. You want the width to be about .060. This is what a proper valve job comes into play to be able to fix this issue. a 30* top angle, 45* sealing and a 60* bottom. The pitting on the valve will need to be addressed and the valve refaced to the proper angle. The valves in your old heads are a little different then the Vortec valves. They have an O-ring groove below the keeper groove. While this will not hurt anything, they are not the same. The price for GM parts is crazy to aftermarket, valves should run you about 5-6 dollars a piece.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by chevybuldr

So a couple of things while looking at your heads just thru the pictures. The valve seat width is WAY to big to be able to lap the seats in. You want the width to be about .060. This is what a proper valve job comes into play to be able to fix this issue. a 30* top angle, 45* sealing and a 60* bottom. The pitting on the valve will need to be addressed and the valve refaced to the proper angle. The valves in your old heads are a little different then the Vortec valves. They have an O-ring groove below the keeper groove. While this will not hurt anything, they are not the same. The price for GM parts is crazy to aftermarket, valves should run you about 5-6 dollars a piece.

let me preface what I am about to regurgitate by saying I dont know squat about this stuff, but I am learning so i appreciate what you shared

however I believe those specs are for a performance valve job not stock

Super Chevy article Angling For Power says:

"Using a dial caliper, we measured a seat width of 0.060 inch, which is a generally accepted street-engine spec."

it goes on to say

"Narrower seats generally improve flow but are also less durable."