Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build

[doublebeetx]

Unless you are dead set on carbeurating(sp) the 5.3, Mast Motorsports make an awesome intake with throttle body and fuel rails. The first time I saw the set up, with hidden coils, I would have sworn it was a SBC. It had a very lumpy cam with an old school cam sound, yet it retained the great mileage and made incredible HP.
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[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by doublebeetx

Unless you are dead set on carbeurating(sp) the 5.3, Mast Motorsports make an awesome intake with throttle body and fuel rails. The first time I saw the set up, with hidden coils, I would have sworn it was a SBC. It had a very lumpy cam with an old school cam sound, yet it retained the great mileage and made incredible HP.
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My whole idea of going with four webers was to get away from the rough idle/lope normally associated with big cams and plenum manifolds, and because I have zero experience with efi. The individual runners in the manifold keeps the intake charge from being influenced by reversion from other cylinders, which keeps the idle smooth and boosts driveability. That means I can run more duration to increase top end power while retaining low end torque and smoothness. There are individual throttle body efi intakes available, but they cost atleast $3500 and I wouldn't be able to tune it. I can tune webers with a $200 buck wideband air/fuel gauge/datalogger myself- that's less than a tune on a dyno cost and I can tune it for any kind of driving conditions, not just dyno pulls. MSD makes a simple LS ignition controller that is programmed with a laptop, and also has a MAP sensor for added advance at cruise for better mileage and throttle response.
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[slammed427]

Just caught up on the progress. I'm lovin the build. Its kinda sad that the six isn't gonna work out, I love the look of those engines. Keep up the stellar work sir!
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[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by slammed427

Just caught up on the progress. I'm lovin the build. Its kinda sad that the six isn't gonna work out, I love the look of those engines. Keep up the stellar work sir!
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Thanks! I'm still not 100% thrilled about the LSx build, just because the six woulda been so much more unique than the typical V8 build. The LS will be disguised to look old though.



Well, it's bad when you have to dig to find your own build thread! I haven't got any "real" progress done due to the change of plans with the engine situation, and getting the details of that sorted out. I've been posting on LS1tech to get an idea of what I'll need for the engine build, and it looks like it'll be limited to around 7500 rpm unless I almost double the engine budget. I've settled in on using an L33 5.3, destroked with a 4.8 crank, and opened up to LS1 size 3.90" bore. The short stroke will slow the piston speed down so stock rods with ARP bolts will be adequate, and the LS1 bore will open up more piston options while unshrouding the valves. That ends up at 312 CI, so mildly ported stock 799 head castings will flow plenty to make good power on the top end.

Other than planning the engine build, I've also decided to sell the gauge cluster (minus the air gauge). I've found a guy that can build a stock looking 10k rpm tach that'll work with an LS engine, and also print a 140 mph speedo overlay for the gauge lens. I'll wetsand and buff off the stock 100 mph printing and use his reverse printed 140 mph decal on the inside of the lens. I should be able to sell the gauge cluster to cover the cost of the tach and speedo graphics. I've already got a gauge cluster I can restore and add the tach and air gauge to.

I've got about 3-4k worth of parts that I need to sell so I should soon have alot more cash free to dump on the truck and get the progress rolling along better. I've got my eye on a No Limit rack and pinion kit, and it'll need to go in before the engine so that will probably be one of the next big purchases.
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[Dino Driver]

I was looking at the No Limit R&P kit but I gave up on that idea. The No Limit kit requires you to drill a 7/8" hole in the frame for the steering shaft and 2 smaller holes for a centering bracket, so that requires you to get really creative with driver side motor mounts for LS motors. I found that Unisteer makes one that may work better but it's more expensive. I'll be very curious to see how you deal with this.

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by Dino Driver

I was looking at the No Limit R&P kit but I gave up on that idea. The No Limit kit requires you to drill a 7/8" hole in the frame for the steering shaft and 2 smaller holes for a centering bracket, so that requires you to get really creative with driver side motor mounts for LS motors. I found that Unisteer makes one that may work better but it's more expensive. I'll be very curious to see how you deal with this.

The mounts don't bother me that much since I'll be making my own to set the engine as far back and down as possible. Have you seen Shrunken66stroker's build thread? He's in the middle of a No Limit r&p install with an LS motor. I'm watching to see what he comes up with for steering joints.
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[MalibuKasey]

Well.... you have a game plan and thats what counts. I have the "5 year plan" on mine with various stages along the way.
and
Post some pics of that restored gauge cluster!

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by MalibuKasey

Well.... you have a game plan and thats what counts. I have the "5 year plan" on mine with various stages along the way.
and
Post some pics of that restored gauge cluster!

I thought I had a plan together when I first bought the truck...



Here's the gauge cluster. It's for sale in the for sale section with a full description of what I've done to it. $550 shipped.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=527764

[theastronaut]

Here's what the tach will look like. Subtle, eh?

[dean jendro]

Sweet!!

[El Campo]

Interesting concept you have on the engine. I like different views and you definitely have one My only question (and I am in no way insinuating that you are doing the wrong thing so forgive me if it seems that way) is how does destroking an engine improve everyday driveability? Seems to me that more torque further down in the RPMs would make it more driver friendly as this is more often usable. Or am I missing the boat entirely? I know that when I ride my 88 CI Harley which makes a bunch of top end HP versus my friends 96 CI his is much more fun to just cruise on because it makes tons of low end power and the seat of your pants definitely feels it. Now I have big cams and in an all out drag race I rev higher and am ultimately faster but just is not as much fun to ride. Or are you just planning on having enogh power that that it makes plenty down low too (a fantastic idea). Love this truck btw and I am anxious to see more work on it!

[theastronaut]

El Campo, you're thinking straight on the crank. Destroking it would typically kill bottom end torque, but I'm thinking that the intake with 8 separate runners will keep reversion from influencing/diluting the intake charge like it does with a plenum manifold, so that will definitly help with low speed engine smoothness and torque production. I'll bump the compression up too to help with low end torque. The LSx guys are running around 30 degrees more duration when they swap to an IR intake with no loss of bottem end driveability and way better throttle response. The other reason for the 4.8 crank is that it's stronger and slows the piston speed down so the rods and pistons aren't as stressed at high rpms. That along with porting the heads will move the powerband up a good bit- I hate it when an engine won't pull hard on the top end. It'll also be geared short (4.56) to take advantage of the higher powerband.

The current engine in my '64 VW is a torque monster (peak tq at around 2400 rpm) but it gives up around 5200 rpm, and that's no fun with 4.37 gears. So I'd be fine with giving up a little torque to have it pull harder up top. If I need more torque I can always downshift. My dad likes to get his truck in 5th/overdrive asap and thinks he's killing an engine if it gets above 3000 rpm; I'm just the opposite. If it doesn't work as planned I can fairly easily pull it and swap the 5.3 crank/rods back in.

[El Campo]

That makes sense. Sounds well thought out. And I can appreciate that! Very curious to get it running and see how it works, so go work on it!! :-D You probably have it figured out right, I have the exact opposite problem. I have a torque monster also (535 BB) which makes 666lb/ft at only 3000 RPM but power stops falling off around 5100. But I have a 3.08 gear so it works decent. Thats the thing that has been keeping me from going to a different gear. I probably have it all wrong though!!!! I have nothing but the upmost respect for your work so keep on rocking!

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by El Campo

That makes sense. Sounds well thought out. And I can appreciate that! Very curious to get it running and see how it works, so go work on it!! :-D You probably have it figured out right, I have the exact opposite problem. I have a torque monster also (535 BB) which makes 666lb/ft at only 3000 RPM but power stops falling off around 5100. But I have a 3.08 gear so it works decent. Thats the thing that has been keeping me from going to a different gear. I probably have it all wrong though!!!! I have nothing but the upmost respect for your work so keep on rocking!

You don't have it all wrong! Just two different ways to go at it. We have a '97 S10 SS that makes all it's torque at around 3300 rpm, and pulls to only about 5k. It also has a 3.08 and works fine, like you said.


Here's how I like 'em. BMW M3, 4.0 V8 with IR intake, and revs to something like 8500-9000 rpm! Fairly quiet exhaust so you mostly hear the intake noise. Around 2:30 there's vid of it driving on the street. That thing sounds amazing! This is what I'm after with the destroked 5.3 build.

Fluid MotorUnion E90 M3 Velocity Stack System ...

[duallyjams]

cool video , the LS will be assume with a IR intake on it.

[ChrisDollins]

Subscribed! Don't know how I missed this build before. Glad you posted it on pt.

Chris
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[Envy]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

First off, big thanks to chevyrestoguy for donating the super hard to find air pressure gauge decal!! Nobody is currently selling decals that include the air pressure or vacuum gauge decals, and chevyrestoguy had the air decal left over from a set he had. Thanks so much!!






I had a slow day at work after lunch so I got a good start on restoring the gauge cluster. I had already bought a decal set off ebay for the other gauges, and bead blasted the housing and gauge mounts. Krylon makes a green paint that is a very close match for the inside of the housing, and I cleared the outside like the factory did. The wiring cleaned up good with 3M adhesive cleaner, then I wiped it down with Duragloss Vinyl and Rubber dressing to bring the color out and darken the black peices. I've still got to make the "Tand'm Lock" and "Over Speed" lenses and get them installed, and put new bulbs in the bulb holders. The air gauge doesn't sit exactly level in the opening so I've got to straighten that out as well. I'm pretty stoked with how it's turned out so far!

how did you go about putting the decal on the air gauge? Obviously the decal doesnt have the holes already in it, and im afraid of the gauge spring out of place when i remove the pointer, or breaking the pointer. any pointers would be great, thanks.

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by Envy

how did you go about putting the decal on the air gauge? Obviously the decal doesnt have the holes already in it, and im afraid of the gauge spring out of place when i remove the pointer, or breaking the pointer. any pointers would be great, thanks.

Envy, I used a sharp, small hole punch that was slightly larger than the stem of the needle, then cut a slit goin straight down from the punched hole. The hole is covered up by the needle and the slit isn't really visible once the gauge is mounted in the cluster. Hope this helps!
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[Envy]

perfect, that makes me feel much better. what about the two rivets protruding at the bottom?

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by Envy

perfect, that makes me feel much better. what about the two rivets protruding at the bottom?

If you use glass cleaner or soapy water to position the decal without it sticking hard, you'll have to wait till it fully dries before the decal will stick around the rivets. Other than that I didn't have any problems with them, and they're also hidden once it's mounted.
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[theastronaut]

Update on the engine plans, and a change to the planned 140 mph speedo. I'm not going to use a L33 5.3 block- they can't be bored much at all. Leaving the stock bore would make it around 290 CI, so it probably wouldn't make enough torque to pull the truck around. I've decided to go with a 4" bore LS2 block (still with a 4.8 crank) to make 329 CI. I'll probably go with LS3 heads since they flow plenty and have hollow intake valves that will work well with the 8500 RPM limit.

I worked on the Speedo graphics today to send Jason at Greenback Decal (the guy that's building the tach and speedo graphics). I changed it to 15 mph increments from the original 10 mph increments so I could keep the same spacing and amount of characters. So it goes to 150 mph instead of the 140 mph I was planning on, and keeps the original hash marks on the speedo face. The problem I had with 140 mph was trying to squeeze the extra 110, 120, 130, and 140 characters onto the lens while keeping the original 10 mph increments- it would be too crowded that way. It kinda looks too busy with the 15 mph increments, but I haven't come up with any other way to do it.

Thoughts and suggestions? Leave it at 150mph with 15mph increments? Or? Anybody want to donate a LS2 block?






An original 100 mph speedo with 10mph increments. I really like the way every number ends in a zero.

[gimmy 64]

you could do like alot of modern speedos and just do every other 10 miles an hour-20-40-60. would be less crouded

[duallyjams]

Do you have a pic of the 140 for us to compare.

[CRGRS 66]

Originally Posted by duallyjams

Do you have a pic of the 140 for us to compare.

I don't really like the 5's on the 150 scale. OMG, how fast do you plan to drive that thing?????

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by gimmy 64

you could do like alot of modern speedos and just do every other 10 miles an hour-20-40-60. would be less crouded

I thought about that, but I'm not that it could be calibrated easily if it went to 200 (doubling each number that's already there).

Originally Posted by duallyjams

Do you have a pic of the 140 for us to compare.

I didn't make a 140 mph edit, I thought it would get too crowded if I tried to cram in the extra 110, 120, 130, and 140.

Originally Posted by CRGRS 66

I don't really like the 5's on the 150 scale. OMG, how fast do you plan to drive that thing?????

I'm not too keen on the 5's either.



I did some searching this morning for a factory KPH speedo and hit the jackpot. They go to 160 KPH in increments of 20 without being crowded, and all the numbers end in a zero. Unfortunately these were the only two pics I could find in the '64-66 style. Sure would be nice to find a NOS deluxe KPH lens!