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#276 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Volumetric Efficiency VE Table Calibration
Volumetric Efficiency VE Table Calibration
alright, time to rinse, lather, and repeat so copy the values from the graph in the VCM Scanner and this time Paste Special \ Multiply By % - Half |
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#277 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Volumetric Efficiency VE Table Calibration
Volumetric Efficiency VE Table Calibration
again this should only change the cells that had corrections in them (screen shot below) of course you want to hit as many cells during your test drive as you can, but we just went around the block to see how bad things are, after these test drives you can head out on a 20 - 30 minute ones keep in mind you will never hit all the cells, so don't die trying so as before save this file with a new name, something like 03 - VE Calibration - Multiply By Percent Half.hpt and write / Flash the changes to the PCM Last edited by Gregski; 02-19-2020 at 10:04 PM. |
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#278 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Volumetric Efficiency VE Table Calibration
Volumetric Efficiency VE Table Calibration
and you keep repeating this process until green cells start to show up, and just like with the MAF anything +/- 4% is good, and anything +/- 2% is amazing... single digits are OK. |
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#279 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Volumetric Efficiency VE Table Calibration
OK, so lets say you are done calibrating for the day, or you nailed your numbers and you are happy with them, what do you do next?
Well you have to re enable the MAF, put the Codes back to normal, etc. and get out of the VE Calibration setup tune. The easiest way I found to do that is to copy the values of your newly calibrated VE Table over to that very first file we saved called 00 - VE Calibration - Initial.hpt and do a Save As new name and call it something like 04 - VE Calibration - Tuned.hpt or what ever number increment you left off of, if it took you 15 tries to calibrate it then call this one 16 - something something remember that initial file has the correct settings to re enable the MAF put all the codes back to normal and even has the original Low Octane values in that table to keep us safe until we tune Timing and Knock Retard. and finally write / Flash that last file to the PCM and that's that, we have now Calibrated both the MAF and the VE Table essentially taking care of "Fueling" next we'll take a look at Timing Last edited by Gregski; 02-20-2020 at 11:30 AM. |
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#280 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Engine Phases
Engine Phases / Tuning Phases
1. Startjust wanted to post this as a sort of Road Map to get us thinking about all the phases the engine goes through from START to WOT when we tune we can use this as a guide for which area we are concentrating on, I hope you find it helpful / meaningful they are sort of to scale in terms of duration, ie Start only takes 1 or 2 seconds, Warm up can take minutes, where as Cuise can take hours, you get the idea (Accelerate & Decelerate are only that wide so the words could fit, ha ha) |
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#281 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
GM sets timing in the Gen 3 engines in two places relying on four different tables. 1. Idle Spark Advance section (In Drive table or In Park table)All four of these tables live under Engine \ Spark \ Advance in your VCM Editor We will start out by talking about the Base ignition timing ie the main timing. Last edited by Gregski; 02-22-2020 at 11:18 AM. |
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#282 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
First the High Octane & Low Octane table names to me are a bit of a misnomer, I look at them as Aggressive Timing table and Moderate Timing table. The PCM does not sense octane levels in our fuel, it uses something called the Knock Learn Factor to determine which timing table to depend on or a combination of the two. We will cover Knock Learn Factor later on. GM considers 93 Octane to be High Octane. Well I live in Northern California and I can't seem to find 93 Octane at the pump, so what table am I using? The PCM wants to run off of the High Octane table however it is capable of averaging out between the two tables when it senses knock so your timing may not precisely match the High Octane table nor the Low Octane table at any given time, and that's ok. Also if you put in cheap gas you may find yourself running off of the Low Octane table exclusively and even then may still have some knock. We will address all that, but first we take a peak at these two tables. Please note the differences at the higher load (larger Cylinder Airmass numbers) and RPM levels aka bottom right hand corners of the tables, ha ha. Last edited by Gregski; 02-24-2020 at 05:10 PM. |
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#283 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
Let's take a closer look at one of these tables (it don't matter which one at this point in time) The X axis ie the title on top Engine Speed (rpm) is self explanatory. However please look at the Y axis label on the left hand side Cylinder Airmass (g). Unlike other manufacturers who use RPM vs Load (aka Vacuum / Manifold Absolute Pressure) for their timing tables, GM uses Cylinder Airmass (g). It is important for us to acknowledge this for various reasons. 1. The stock Histograms / graphs that come out of the box from HP Tuners are useless for us in terms of tuning or troubleshooting. They will all need to be modified / corrected to reference this Cylinder Airmass parameter instead of Manifold Absolute Pressure.And yes just as with the VE Table the timing tables can also be viewed as a three dimensional graph. Last edited by Gregski; 02-23-2020 at 03:26 PM. |
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#284 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
Example: Let's assume at 2,200 RPM the PCM calculates the Cylinder Airmass as 0.44 grams, according to this table that calls for 29* of timing advance. However the MAF and or the VE Table were not calibrated and are off, so the actual Cylinder Airmass should be 0.48 grams, now the correct timing should be 26* degrees. That's three degrees off, it could mean the difference between a smooth running engine or engine knock occurring. In higher RPM ranges under higher load, such a discrepancy can easily rob you of some power, and this was only a difference of one cell, imaging being two or three cells off. Last edited by Gregski; 02-24-2020 at 05:17 PM. |
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#285 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
At this point let's jump to the VCM Scanner and setup a Histogram / graph to show us what exactly our egnine's timing looks like. We only need three Channels to get started: 1. Timing Advance (this will give us the meat and potatoes aka the values in the cells) Last edited by Gregski; 02-22-2020 at 05:49 PM. |
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#286 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
Next we build our Histogram aka graph to match the High and Low Octane timing tables |
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#287 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
Lets take a close look at the Properties of our Timing Advance graph Label: call it what ever you like, such as: Timing Advance Parameter: although we select Timing Advance this silly program changes the name to Spark Advance on this screen Decimals: I start with 0 you can get more granular later Filtering Function: this is important but it's a bit more of an advance feature which we will touch on later (you could use it to exclude things above your idle RPM say anything above 550 or Throttle Position greater than .5) High Value: 50 cause that's the highest thing in my High Octane table (though this can be exceeded) Low Value: -15 Column Axis Parameter: Engine Speed aka Engine RPM Values: copy the Column Axis labels from the High RPM table in the VCM Editor Row Axis Parameter: Cylinder Airmass Values: copy the Row Axis labels from the High RPM table in the VCM Editor Last edited by Gregski; 02-22-2020 at 05:52 PM. |
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#288 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
So after you have your Channels and your Graph all setup, you can go for a test drive and record/log some data. You do not need to write/Flash anything from the VCM Editor to do this. Here is a look at some of my numbers. I highlighted a cell at 1400 RPM and 0.28 grams with a value of 26 degrees advance to show you that it does not match either of my High Octane or Low Octane Tables. You may find yourself in a similar situation. So what gives? So far this is what I wanted you to discover. 1. Where your timing settings come from (High and Low Octane tables), aka what they should be.So we may not have all the answers but we at least now realize that there may be a discrepancy. |
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#289 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
To answer our question of why our actual Timing Advance does not match our Base timing, we must explore what we call Modifiers, ie there are additional tables that alter the Base table values, based on some condition. Let's meet these dirty rascals: Lurking on the same tab as our Base tables under Engine \ Spark \ Advance tab Base Corrections section we start with:
Last edited by Gregski; 02-23-2020 at 04:00 PM. |
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#290 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
Those of you who followed along from the beginning, you most likely turned off the EGR (Part IV) and the Catalyst Heating (Part VIII) as instructed in the Housekeeping section. Now we began to see why that may have been a good idea, especially on an engine swap where those components have been deleted. Let's add some more Channels to monitor these Base Corrections to see if any are actually kicking in and altering our Base timing. We will leave the Cranking Advance and Idle Advance for later when we tackle Idle tuning. Note: In addition to these five Base Corrections, Torque Management is the biggest power thief when not tuned properly. This is also worthy of it's own Section / discussion. Last edited by Gregski; 02-24-2020 at 05:21 PM. |
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#291 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
After you have added more timing Channels you can go for another test drive and record/log some more data. You do not need to write/Flash anything from the VCM Editor to do this. You also don't need to pre build the additional Histograms / graphs at this time, as long as you are capturing the additional Channels, you can make the graphs later. |
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#292 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
After your second test drive, you can replay the log on the computer in the comfort of your own home, and just look at the values next to these additional five channels to see if any of them are making any changes to our base timing:
Let's clone/copy one graph together. Let's make a graph for ECT Advance (which again in the graph wizard HP Tuners calls Coolant Advance) All we have to do is change the following: Label: Coolant Advance Parameter: Coolant Advance View: over on the right hand side we can choose how to show our data the default being Average but if you want to scare yourself a bit especially when it comes to engine knock change that pull down to Max, ha ha and we are done and ready to see the results on our newly cloned graph Last edited by Gregski; 02-25-2020 at 10:12 AM. |
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#293 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
Alright so I went out and drove around for about 8 minutes and got us some sample data. Using our basic timing channels here we can see that indeed the PCM is pulling out a tiny bit of timing based on the Engine Coolant Temp ECT as per the Collant Advance channel. Now what's the point of this exercise? It is simply to make us aware of the things that the PCM may be influenced by to alter our base timing. It is not for us to go out and 0 out all these tables, leave them alone. The PCM is doing what it is designed to do, essentially protect the engine, from overheating for example. This is different than zeroing out tables for the EGR and the CATs because those components no longer exist. If you are seeing numbers for your EGR Advance below, yet you have deleted it, you may want to revisit Section IV under Housekeeping. |
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#294 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing - Knock Parameters / Channels
No discussion of timing would be complete without the subject of knock, (engine knock also commonly known as pinging) or more specifically Knock Retard. Engine knock is caused by the piston still coming up in the cylinder and the spark igniting too soon forcing it down before the piston had the chance to reach top dead center and began its decent downwords. Have you ever pushed a friend or a sibling on a swing and and stood too close and had the swing slam into you, well you experienced something very similar to engine knock, had you stood further back the swing would have reached the end of the pendulum (equivalent of TDC for a piston) and began to swing back on it's own, just as the piston would start falling back down in the cylinder, then if you gave the swing a push it would be as if the piston had proper timing set to ignite the flame somewhere after TDC to push the piston down just like you pushing the swing much easier. Knock Retard is the PCMs way of protecting itself from literally blowing up the engine. So lets add the three Channels related to Knock:
Last edited by Gregski; 02-27-2020 at 10:31 AM. |
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#295 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing - Knock Retard Histogram Properties
Now that we have our Channels we can build our graph to help us monitor Knock Retard. Same as before we can clone one of the existing sister timing graphs. Then we can tweak a few things: Label: Knock Retard Parameter: Knock Retard (which again the HP Tuner guys rename to Spark Retard) Shading High Value: 15 should get us started, we can adjust this later Color: we want this to stand out so lets make it Red Last edited by Gregski; 02-27-2020 at 10:31 AM. |
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#296 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing - Knock Retard Histogram
And at this point we can go for a short 5 to 10 minute test drive around the block, these short test drives are essential to ensure our Channels work, our Graphs read data, etc. We don't want to set out to work on a Monday morning to log our first set of data only to find out some parameter did not come through because of a silly error. Here is my sample data from my first test drive around the block. Nothing special, no knock, but we at least confirmed all the Channels and parameters are working. Last edited by Gregski; 03-01-2020 at 03:39 PM. |
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#297 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials
Greg, I wanted to say thank you for this write up. I have been dabbling with HP tuners for several years but what you have here brings it all together. Very well written and helpful.
My recent jump is into the gen 5 stuff, that has proven to be tricky and haven't gotten too far along. I am only tuning my own stuff and helped a couple friends get theirs going so it is just a hobby in my hobby so to say. Again thanks Dave
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Dave 1968 Custom Chevy with turbo charged 5.3 gen III 4l80e swap 1967-71 GMC 3/4 ton long step 4x4 (not sure what year exactly?) "A good friend will bail you out of jail...but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "that was frekin awesome". "If it doesn't fit force it...If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway!" |
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#298 | |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials
Quote:
You are a brave man, I can't imagine the extra complexity in the Gen 5 stuff, I am quite happy beating the Gen 3s into submission still, great little engines. |
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#299 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing - Knock Retard Histogram
and here is a sample of a log with some knock, truth be told this was supposed to be my longer drive, aka 20 or 30 minutes, but the log stopped recording, (hey just being honest with you all, it happens) let's just say that HP Mini netbook is no longer with us, ha ha! anyway this is a good screen shot to share two observations regarding engine knock: 1. some engine knock is acceptable, after all if you log your factory tune for the first time you will see some knock, so the GM engineers are cool with that. I would think less than 1 degree retard is ok, that is for daily driving occuring here and there, if it's always in the same cell then by all means do something about it Last edited by Gregski; 02-27-2020 at 10:30 AM. |
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#300 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials
Timing - Retard / Knock Sensors
We will come back to the VCM Scanner and review more timing graphs in a bit, but at this time let's jump over to the VCM Editor and talk about the knock settings. We find knock settings under two tabs: Engine \ Spark \ RetardUnder the Ratard tab we find knock limits in the form of Knock Retard Amount and Maximum Knock Retard vs RPM (PE) or vs. MAP (Non-PE) It is important for us to acknowledge these but keep in mind just because the PCM can pull you in say 20 degrees to prevent engine knock that doesn't mean we can just set our Base timing willy-nilly and depend on the knock retard feature to make it right. Under this tab we also see Recovery Rate. When we get to performance tuning this may be a setting we revisit as it tells the PCM how long to hold the retard timing before returning it to normal, staying retarded for too long can rob you of some horse power. Think of the Knock Sensors tab settings as the internals of the VCR (you 40 plus something year olds, lol) say you want to be an actor or a director, yes you need to know how to operate a VCR (pronounced YouTube of the 80s) but that doesn't mean you need to know how to build one, or know exactly how it works, other than we put the VHS tape in, and press Play, hewk on some machines it starts playing automatically. So for the time being just trust that the GM engineers knew what they were doing when they tuned our two knock sensors at the factory, remember this tutorial is for a stock(ish) LS engine swaps, not extreme builds. So for now we leave this tab alone, but this is where you would adjust knock sensor sensitivity. Last edited by Gregski; 02-27-2020 at 10:30 AM. |
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