SkinnyG's '61 Apache

[SkinnyG]

Epoxy primer, hands down, no question.

[SkinnyG]

Etch primer could be a good second, but given the choice, I'd go Epoxy. And I did.

[cwcarpenter98]

Thanks, I'll be going epoxy from here out. Your thread is going to be one of my references on how to do metalworking

[SkinnyG]

If I were to do it again, I -think- I would....

1. Replace the bottom of the A & B pillars
2. Hang door, checking body lines and gaps at the top and back
3. Fit and secure the outer rockers, adjusting gaps to perfection
4. Fit and secure the inner kick panels
5. Fit and secure the inner-rockers/floor
6. Fit and secure the cab supports

Kinda outside-to-in, instead of the way I did it inside-to-out.

I did careful measurement, and put everything back reasonably well, but I -think- it could be better.

On one hand, I couldn't improve the bottom door gap because I couldn't raise the rocker because it was set by the placement of the kick panels and floor panels.

On the other hand, no matter how awesome you think you can be in doing the rust repair, the patch panels (and heck, the original assembly) are so sloppy, it would still be a lot of work to "perfect" it.

All that extra work is not worth it to me.

[SkinnyG]

Won these on eBay.

Can't legally run them, but pretty cool nonetheless.

[Rolland]

Nice plates. Some U.S. states allow "year of manufacture" original plates to be run.

[cwcarpenter98]

Now you gotta put a 383 in it

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by SkinnyG

I patched a section of the Toe board, as it was far more pitted than i wanted. The passenger side inner rocker and cab supports got installed, and now that all that structure is back in and located, the A pillar bottom and kick is being replaced. I was a horrible judge of how long this would take. OMG.

SkinnyG - How are the lower flat part of the that inner cab floor-door panel as they fit to the outside panel you then put on? I used 2 halves for the cab floor and they do not match in length at all. The rear section is close but the front is way too short. I will also need to push it towards the outside of the cab to meet the outside door panel to spot weld. This is the part that is on the very bottom of the door/floor section below the door.

[SkinnyG]

From what I saw/paid-attention-to, it seemed to fit fine, though none of the holes truly lined up. The two sides, from the same supplier, were not symmetrical.

It's fitment is going to relate to the outer rocker fitment, so it's important to get them both right, and make whatever changes you have to. You need to go into this knowing that they aren't going to fit; you kinda have to accept that.

I bought the full-length ones, because I didn't to have to deal with a seam in the middle, as so many others had to do. I've also seen the one-piece inner rockers not fit either (too long or too short). I also may have totally overlooked a fitment issue because of my inexperience.

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by SkinnyG

From what I saw/paid-attention-to, it seemed to fit fine, though none of the holes truly lined up. The two sides, from the same supplier, were not symmetrical.

It's fitment is going to relate to the outer rocker fitment, so it's important to get them both right, and make whatever changes you have to. You need to go into this knowing that they aren't going to fit; you kinda have to accept that.

I bought the full-length ones, because I didn't to have to deal with a seam in the middle, as so many others had to do. I've also seen the one-piece inner rockers not fit either (too long or too short). I also may have totally overlooked a fitment issue because of my inexperience.

Yep, I knew they would need some "adjustments", its just frustrating when the the 1/2's do not match. Knowing what I do now, I would only buy the ones you did. I only need this on it on the driver side (I hope) for now. LOL

I was trying to get all this done and in prime and paint before cold air hit... LOL ya, that is not happening, BUT I did by a Mini-Split Heat Pump for the shop so i can do away with propane heater. So know i am a bit more relaxed and not in such a hurry, i want to take my time.

[SkinnyG]

Cab corners are welded.

Like an idiot, I decided that I should oxy-acetylene weld these in. My reasoning, is that gas welding leaves the most malleable weld, (theoretically) distorts less as you heat the metal up more gradually, and cool it down more gradually. In theory, it is quicker, as you do not need to stack a bunch of beads together, but you can give'er in one pass (once tacked, of course), and you don't have to grind the welds down, and there's a whole lot less shrinkage since there's a whole lot less bead to contract.

At least that's the theory.

The reality was really more of a slow-paced but-whuppin.







They ain't gorgeous, but they are solid, and they actually ended up fitting relatively well. And yes - there was less shrinkage/distortion.

MIG is so much easier, and while it may be more work, MIG feels more productive.

It also took quite some time to stretch/shrink parts of the cab wall. That was un-fun.

Also filled two antenna holes (shortwave? two way? CB?) that had been caulked and plated many moons ago.

And filled the fuel filler hole. I bent the flange into the opening and planished it flat, then cut a patch from some e-coated offcuts, and gas welded that in. The gas welding certainly is WAY more malleable than MIG.



These'll be good enough for a skim of filler. It ain't gonna be master metal craftsmanship. Not yet, anyway.

[caseyjones]

I'm glad you can keep working on the truck through all of the challenges of starting a new school year.

Also, big thanks for the real world pros and cons on OA welding...I've often wondered if I should learn how to do it. I think I'll stick with MIG for my purposes.

[SkinnyG]

OA welding is definitely a skill to develop. I have done a lot of OA welding, brazing, and even aluminum welding with it. I also have a TIG, which is directly relatable to OA with the addition of a foot pedal to control your heat.

OA takes some discipline to learn, and a keep eye to watch where your heat is going. As fare as bodywork goes, I would recommend MIG if you have limited OA experience. It's just easier in many ways.

I think I'm just taking this on because it's "a better way to go." Masterable skill.

[SkinnyG]

Inner and outer door bottoms arrived yesterday, but household repairs and maintenance happened today. There's always tomorrow. Ordered from Bill's Truck Shop in Ontario this time.

Surprisingly: 3 months faster delivery. I might order from them again. (grin)

[SkinnyG]

Tentatively fitted the driveshaft to see how I need to modify the top of the X, so I can modify the cab to fit.

Fuel lines showed up. -8 for fuel feed (yeas, that's half-inch fuel line!), and -6 for return. PTFE to last longer, stink less, and be E85 friendly.

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by SkinnyG

Tentatively fitted the driveshaft to see how I need to modify the top of the X, so I can modify the cab to fit.

Fuel lines showed up. -8 for fuel feed (yeas, that's half-inch fuel line!), and -6 for return. PTFE to last longer, stink less, and be E85 friendly.

I use PTFE lines for fuel also. Great stuff, easy to install fittings. I have found though, you want to use the fittings from the same company that supplies you the fuel line. There seems to be a slight difference.
I did buy the AN fitting install tool from Summit - Koul Tool. Crazy the cost but if it helps with the build of the fittings im in.

[SkinnyG]

Filled the last rust repair on the cab. Thus endeth cab rust repair.



Started in on the door bottoms. Measured, cut, fit, and blasted as far as I could reach on the inside. Ran out of daylight. With the door bottom removed, I could get a dolly in to planish the door-swung-too-far door crease.

[SkinnyG]

It took HOURS blasting the door, but it felt good; I could see progress. Once I started double-sifting the used crushed glass (sifted it into a bucket, then sifted back into the machine), I had almost zero clogs. Machine works well.

Door bottom is tacked, and two coats of epoxy primer rolled inside.





Also formed some actual drains since the replacement bottoms came with zip.

[SkinnyG]

Repaired torn, bent, and fatigue-cracked West Coast Mirror holes, fitted the bottom door skin, then sprayed epoxy primer on everything in anticipation of final welding some time this week. Before closing it up, I'm going to run some Eastwood Internal Frame Coating through the cavities in the door.



The stand is my "Exhaust Pipe Stands" for doing exhaust, which double as the kids' Badminton net stands.

In cleaning my spray gun, I broke the mounting bolt for the air flow adjusting screw. Turns out it's 5/16-UNF, with a 4.5x0.75mm thread inside. I machined a new one out of a bolt, but I need to get that tap as I don't have one. Should be able to fix it just fine.

[SkinnyG]

I tacked the inner bottom with MIG, but chose to finish weld in Oxy-Acetylene. Much better than my cab-corner experience, but I should not have tacked with MIG, I should have tacked with gas; the MIG tacks were much harder, and did not melt in nicely when I did the oxy-acet pass. The end result, though, was minimal distortion for sure, but I made the cut just below the strengthening rib so the rib could act as rigidity (and because the reproduction panel's rib was drunk).

Also, I'll share a couple of tools I made.

First up, is my Hammer Hammer. Initially about 18" of 3/4" solid round, to help my planish the fuel filler hole patch, when I couldn't get a hammer in there. I used it as a hammer, and I used it as a dolly. Dealing with one of the West Coast Mirror holes, I cut about 1" off the end and welded it 90° to fit inside the window opening, and I hit it with a hammer to push metal out, and I used it as a dolly to hammer metal in.



And then I made this one, to pull part of the window felt flange that I buggered fixing the aforementioned hole. This hammer-smacking-flange-putter-back-inator is just 1" flat bar. I welded a tang from a file so I can beat it with a hammer, to pull the wee flange back into place.



The tang came from this tool I made, a slapping file, which does a grand job of persuading metal into perfection. Or perfect enough for a skim of filler in my case.

[aggie91]

Nice, its always good to be able to make the "tool" that no one else makes are wants way to much money for it...

[SkinnyG]

Also fabricated my own door-panel-hammer. Local prices are $75 for one, but I have a stack of old hammers, some 5/8" steel bar, and a welder....

[cwcarpenter98]

All those custom tools sure make everything easier. I haven't had to make my own tools yet, but I'm sure as I get farther along in the rust repair, I'll need to do something similar

[SkinnyG]

Installed the bottom door skin today, and spent pretty much forever trying to planish the weld.

All my four letter words had five syllables.

[SkinnyG]

Grrrr.

I assumed the lower skin would fit right. It didn't. It isn't "curved" in the middle of the door, it's only curved at the flange. This resulted in a 3/8" valley below the weld.



Before all you pro's point out the importance of planishing the weld, do know that this was gas welded, planished, and the weld is f-l-a-t. The center of the patch has no 'body" to it - it's just doing what it was bent to do.

Straight at the weld:



Then what - should I have English Wheeled it? I can't get right up to the flange with the wheel.

Not impressed. May have to by full door skins.

3/8" gap half-way down the panel:



Bottom is decent enough: