Porsche 944: Actually there is a substitute

[Gokart Mozart]

Just read the whole thread. I wish I had your welding skills!

Check out the alt relocation kit here: http://fastfieros.com/catalog.htm

[sparkydog]

Does anyone have a suggestion for a GM car/truck that has headers with rear dumps that would bolt up to my L36/67 heads? The stock 96 Camaro headers are center dump. It would be better if I could find a FACTORY HEADER with rear dump (aftermarket headers will not pass Calif smog).

Once again - any suggestions for FACTORY HEADERS with rear dumps that mate up to a 3.8L L36/67?

Thanks for any ideas!

[Pop's C-10]

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/135413.html

[sparkydog]

Awesome Pop's C-10!!! Thanks very much for the help!!

[Xionation]

I came across the Halfbreed build on accident but man what a cool and interesting build. I was a little sad to make to the end of the build and see you sold it. Oh well. The Porsche is coming along nicely. Good luck with everything.

[sparkydog]

Thanks for all the reading & clicking you had to do Xio!

OK time for an update on the 944. This time its all words and no pictures. I think that writing all this down might help me with some of my decisions.

I've been doing a lot of brain work and a little bit of wallet work and almost no actual work! Since I stuffed the Camaro motor/trans into the 944 I've been wrestling with a bunch of tradeoffs. The next logical step for me is to place the motor where I want it and fab up some mounts. Fore/aft was fairly easy to come up with. Side/side I want to put the motor over on the pass side as much as I can within reason. I'm trying to stay as far away from the 944 steering shaft as possible. This will also pay back when it comes time to situate the brake and clutch MCs.

First I tried mocking up using the stock Camaro headers. With the motor about 1" to the right of CL the right header clears the frame but would dump slightly into a corner of the stock K member. And the left header dump flange hits the steering shaft. Rear-ish dumps would work better so then I started looking at both the Mustang V6 and later model Camaro headers as options. I have a set of Mustang V6 headers now and they solve the steering clearance problem but hug the block just a teensy bit too much. So there would be a lot of fab involved to mod them. I'll get a set of the 00-02 GM headers and see how/if they fit.

And even once I have a set of headers that fit - I will also need to keep in mind the low mount A/C compressor as it will require that I mod the K member to clear. So for now I can't proceed very far with motor mounts until I have the header and A/C mocked up - then I can firm up the side/side location of the motor.

With side/side location still uncertain I have to be careful with what I do in the trans tunnel and driveshaft hump. But I think I can proceed with the trans mount cross brace fab. I know that the most I would shift the motor to the right is about 1.5" so I'm going to fab a trans tunnel and cross brace that have a hoop that will clear the worst case. I've bought the tubing and U-bends for this portion of the project so stay tuned for an update on this aspect.

Next up is the gas tank. The basic void where it needs to go is shaped like a rectangular box. The OG 944 tank has the right shape but I won't be using it for several reasons. I saved the Camaro tank but it is shaped like a wedge of cheese and after a couple of wrestling sessions I have decided I don't want to use it (but will keep the pump/sending unit/vent/vapor recovery stuff). I could buy an aftermarket tank or fab my own but my cheap bastard is trying to hold off on that impulse. Right now I am looking at taking either an S10 tank or a C10 tank and modding them. They are both too long but have the right cross sectional shape. I need to also consider that I have not fabbed an upper shock mount and need to reserve space for panhard/watts and muffler(s).

And toward that end I am thinking about shaving the spare tire compartment completely out of the 944. It would solve a whole bunch of space issues. I would have enough room for about 20 gallons of gas, room for rear suspension goodies and a little left over for a muffler. In 40+ years of driving I've only had 1 flat tire and it was within 100 yards of my house so I just drove slowly back to the garage. So I've never needed a spare tire - and now that I have written these words I have jinxed myself. Another option is to "negative tub" the spare tire compartment. It is shaped to hold a regular fully aired Porsche wheel and tire. But my 944 is running Mustang spindles so I can use the more modern, narrow spare. This would allow me to shorten the depth of the spare wheel cavity by 1-3.5" depending on how aggressive I want to be.

OK that's it for now - thanks for reading all this blabber.

[Palf70Step]

Brain at work is a good thing! Especially before the sawzall and welder come into play.

Ideas sound good. Looking forward to seeing what you end up doing.

[Gokart Mozart]

Gas tank
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/5745902126.html

[sparkydog]

Pics 1&2 show the Mustang V6 left header. It does an OK job of missing my steering shaft but it hugs the block too much. It passes too close to the starter and is actually hitting a boss on the block near the top of pic #2. Pic 3 shows the stock 96 Camaro right header dumping into the frame and K member. I didn't take a pic of the Mustang right header but it dumped straight into the firewall.

Yesterday I scored a set of 00-02 Camaro headers at the wrecking yard for $48. Pic #4 is of the left header and #5 of the right. This I can work with! I would prefer that GM took me into consideration and designed the right header to hug the block a little more. Then I could slide the motor some more to the right. But I'm going to probably cut up the firewall a little which will let me move the motor aft some more and this will help both the left and right sides.

[sparkydog]

Originally Posted by Gokart Mozart

Gas tank
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/5745902126.html

Tanks for the suggestion Gokart! That Bronco tank is square but in the wrong direction for the 944. Mine needs to be narrow fore/aft and deep top/bottom. Based on my research I have two tanks in mind. Either a late 60's Corvette tank or a late 80's Toyota Pickup. The Corvette is Pic#1 and the Toyota is Pic#2. Either one will require mods to get the GM fuel injection pump/pickup and adapt to the 944 filler location. I found a Toyota tank in the wrecking yard yesterday but it was all roached out and dented. I think I will buy a new one. I can get either for under $100. The Corvette is about $60.

[sparkydog]

Here's my fully engineered and highly professional design for my transmission cross-member!

[Pop's C-10]

Originally Posted by sparkydog

Awesome Pop's C-10!!! Thanks very much for the help!!

You welcome..love your builds

[Palf70Step]

At least your engineering was on paper, mine normally ends up on the inside of a parts bow or on an old shipping document. :lol

[sparkydog]

Originally Posted by sparkydog

In 40+ years of driving I've only had 1 flat tire and it was within 100 yards of my house so I just drove slowly back to the garage. So I've never needed a spare tire - and now that I have written these words I have jinxed myself.

Yep! Had a flat on my DD this morning!

[Dirt Road Cowboy]

I joined the forum just to follow this build!

I have an '83 944 that I'm doing some kind of conversion to, and saw your posts on the 944 Hybrids forum.

Your car is looking good so far.

[sparkydog]

Welcome to the forum, Dirt!

Well finally some activity. I ordered my gas tank - I ended up picking a 61-64 Chevy Impala tank. It will require some mods - hey I can't just bolt something into the car now can I?!!

And I kept thinking all this week that I was ready to fab up my motor mounts. Pic 2 shows where I'm headed with them - I'm going to convert some lowering shackles into motor mounts. But as I mocked up the mounting plates in cardboard I kept worrying about clearing the A/C compressor. And long story short - I decided that I needed to be able to hang the motor from above so that I can drop the K member down and cut/weld on it as needed while simultaneously designing the motor mounts, the trans tunnel and a big honkin cutout I'm going to make into the left side of the K member to clear the A/C compressor.

So here's some pics of the motor hang bracket - you may recognize it as the former exoskeleton from the rear end fab.

[sparkydog]

The first pic shows where I'm needing to clearance the K member. The little center mark near the 3" note is the center of the A/C compressor and I need at least 3" radius free around that point.

And then a shot of the trans tunnel - just playing around with a remnant from the Camaro tunnel to see if it would help things. You can also spot a couple of quick hacked holes I made in the 944 tunnel and firewall to allow me to slide the V6 motor some more toward the rear of the car. I'm just about ready to admit that I need to cut the entire bell housing area out and start from scratch.

[sparkydog]

I took that crude cardboard template and used it and the actual A/C compressor mounting bracket to fab up an "A/C Compressor cutout jig" - which was basically a thin plate of aluminum and a tight fitting slide-able rod that I could use to swing arcs off of to mark where the cylinder of the compressor would fall onto the K member. It is also helping me to view how much room I have in the motor mount area. In the last pic there are three bolt holes on the block that I want to tie into for the mount bracket.

[sparkydog]

My gas tank arrived today. It's about 1/2" too long but I think the flanging pliers will make short work of folding the flanges.

I assembled the front and rear mounting brackets to the A/C compressor and took my measurements on how much I would need to clearance the K member. I decided on 3" radius down the outboard side and 3.75" radius where the forward bracket sweeps under the front of it.

Then I made my 3 & 3.75 radius arms out of MIG wire, taped off the K member and proceeded to mark the outline of the cuts. The stock K member has a rectangular hole that happens to work out nicely for the clearance of most of the 3.75" section.

[sparkydog]

I also did some upgrades to my motor hanger system. I beefed up the cross bar and re-did my allthread rods so they had more weld area. I really didn't want any broken fingers or worse once I start to work around and under the motor!

[sparkydog]

Made the cuts.
With all the tools.

Kind of surprised that it fit 1st try!!!

Yeah I've got some adjustments to make. And... gotta figure out how to re-enforce the structural metal. But now I can proceed with the design and fab of the motor and trans mounts!!!

(Last pic shows the area behind the A/C compressor where the motor mount will live.)

[Palf70Step]

I will chop up some stuff, but I must say I am definitely lacking the nads to go at it like you do. I love watching you go at it and the reconstruction that goes with it. You sir are my hero..

[sparkydog]

Thanks Palf!

One of the things I looked at for motor location was to provide as much room as possible for the brake booster/master. I now have the option of either fully manual, hydro-boost or conventional vacuum boost. (There is just barely enough room for the larger vacuum boost diaphragm housing.)

So if I have the room to do any of the three types of brake system - which one should I go with?

[Palf70Step]

Hydroboost. More power and allows you to run radical cam.

[AnotherWs6]

Why the decision to go with a v6 car rather than an LS? Just curious. Is it because of emissions somehow? Doing a lot of good work, like the chunk of Mustang grafted in the back.