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02-28-2020, 10:38 AM | #1 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
What I would do is first I would select all the cells in the histogram. Then I would copy all of them, like so. Last edited by Gregski; 03-07-2020 at 01:26 PM. |
02-28-2020, 10:42 AM | #2 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
Then go to the VCM Editor and pull up the High Octane table. Next right click anywhere in it and select Paste Special - Subtract. Last edited by Gregski; 02-28-2020 at 10:53 AM. |
02-28-2020, 10:48 AM | #3 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Timing
Timing
This will remove the right amount of timing advance in the precise cells where the knocking is occurring. Or you can change the values manually. Either way, eye ball the results and make sure there are no huge jumps, 2 to 4 degree differences between cells are acceptable, anything more than that and I would interpolate, meaning adjust the neighboring cells a little so the changes are more gradual For example, if we changed what ever number to 16 below 9 - 11 - 16 - 21 - 23 I would make the end result look something like this 9 - 12 - 16 - 20 - 23 to make the transitions be more gradual Keep in mind we are pasting values that are averages so there is some gentleness already built in to what we are doing, however it still may take some time to get this dialed in. TOP TIP: Before making any timing adjustments, top off your fuel tank with some fresh high octane 91+ as it does make a difference, and retest ie repeat the test drive and collect another set of data, the knocking may have subsided on it's own. |
02-28-2020, 10:55 AM | #4 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials
and that's that for Timing, we will cover Idle Tuning next
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03-07-2020, 12:28 PM | #5 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning
Idle tuning can be the most challenging, let's see if it has to be that way. We will begin with a few assumptions: 1. Your engine starts, so this is not about getting it to fire up after a cam swap.As we dive in deeper you will see that this reduces our complexity from 4 conditions to only two, where we idle either: 1. In Park Last edited by Gregski; 03-07-2020 at 03:56 PM. |
03-07-2020, 12:31 PM | #6 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning
So to tune the idle phase of your engines operation we will focus on the Holy Trinity: 1. RPMAs always we start off with a clean canvas in the VCM Scaner, and begin by adding the channels we will need. |
03-07-2020, 12:37 PM | #7 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials
Idle Tuning
Hopefully by this time I don't need to convince you why we always start with the Engine Coolant Temp channel regardless of what we are doing. This channel is just something we have accepted we will always need to guide us with the meat and potatoes of what ever our mission is. Last edited by Gregski; 03-08-2020 at 11:27 AM. |
03-07-2020, 12:45 PM | #8 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning - RPM
We start tuning idle by expecting or dictating at what Engine RPM (Revolutions Per Minute) our engine will sit there in our garage or driveway and purr like a kitten. So what should that be? A wise old timer once told me, "let her idle at the lowest RPM she will stay running at." that advice has stayed with me for over 20 years, cause otherwise you are just sending dollar bills out your tailpipe sort of speak. Now there's more to it then that, she needs to stay running at all conditions so in Drive aka in gear as well as in Park/Neutral. So just cause we can get our engines to idle at 450 RPM in Park doesn't mean they will like that when we are stopped at a red light in gear. So let's add our first channel for idle tuning, Engine RPM and see where she idles at. A nice analog Tach is highly recommended for idle tuning, anyone who calls themselves a Hot Rodder ought to have a tachometer installed in their rig. Please Note: we also assume your build is complete, in other words the Air Filter housing is on, the air intake is on, you have complete exhaust system bolted up, etc. Last edited by Gregski; 03-08-2020 at 11:27 AM. |
03-07-2020, 12:58 PM | #9 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning
Now things have gotten a bit more advanced, since that old man's advice. GM engineers have already predetermined at what Engine RPM our LS engines ought to idle at, so lets take a peak at those settings in the VCM Editor. Engine \ Idle \ RPM tab \ Base Setpoint section \ Base table |
03-07-2020, 01:05 PM | #10 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning - Base table
In the Base table we see the four conditions our engine can be operating at while idling. We agreed to only focus on the two without the AC to make things a bit easier. 1. In Gear AC offOnce warmed up we should be in the green zone so our RPM should be 550 in Park and 525 in Gear. Note: My numbers are based on a 2001 GMC Sierra 4.8L 4L60e 2WD, your numbers may vary. Last edited by Gregski; 03-07-2020 at 03:07 PM. |
03-07-2020, 01:12 PM | #11 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning - Idle Desired RPM
Now we could commit those numbers to memory, or write them on a post it note, or take a pic of that table with our iPhones, but we don't need to. You see HP Tuners makes our lives so much easier, by providing us with a channel called Idle Desired RPM. The nice thing about this parameter / channel is that the value will change in real time based on whether we are in Park or in Gear so it will always show us what the PCM expects the idle RPM to be dynamically, very cool. So let's add it to our Channels. Last edited by Gregski; 03-07-2020 at 04:01 PM. |
03-07-2020, 01:16 PM | #12 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning - Engine RPM vs Idle Desired RPM
So now our Channels look like this: Engine Coolant Tempand that is the first part of the Holy Trinity, that's all we need to discuss the engine RPM aspect of the idle tuning process Last edited by Gregski; 03-07-2020 at 03:06 PM. |
03-07-2020, 02:09 PM | #13 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning
So let's go out there and get some data in this NorCal early March treacherous weather (pronounced: sprinkling) Last edited by Gregski; 03-07-2020 at 02:19 PM. |
03-07-2020, 02:18 PM | #14 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials
Idle Tuning
Having logged over 20 minutes of data lets take a look at the numbers. We have learned that my in Park Idle Desired RPM should be 550, so why is it 700 in the screen shot below? |
03-07-2020, 02:38 PM | #15 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning
lets troubleshoot / explain what is going on here together we start by looking at our ever important Engine Coolant Temp channel and it clearly only reads 90° F this has got to be a red flag, seems kinda low for a fully warmed up engine |
03-07-2020, 02:44 PM | #16 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning
lets go back and consult our idle Base table to see what should be happening at 90° F and sure enough, the Desired Idle RPM is 700 at 90° F in Park, the engine hasn't fully warmed up yet, I just jumped the gun, this happens to more people than you know now I wasn't trying to trick you, or be a smart alleck, you must fully warm up your engine for it to settle in the specs it needs to settle in at Last edited by Gregski; 03-07-2020 at 03:43 PM. |
03-07-2020, 02:50 PM | #17 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning - Engine RPM vs Idle Desired RPM
It may have taken me 20 minutes for my truck to fully warm up to about 194° F where she likes to settle in, and that's ok, it would have happened faster if I was to drive her around the block, but I wanted just to log some pure data in Park So here's what the numbers look like in Park when the engine is warmed up: Engine RPM = 552pretty darn perfect Last edited by Gregski; 03-07-2020 at 03:06 PM. |
03-07-2020, 02:53 PM | #18 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning - Engine RPM vs Idle Desired RPM
now watch what happens when I shift her into Gear Engine RPM = 525the Idle Desired RPM changed from 550 to 525 and the actual Engine RPM followed, as it should per the Base table, see how that works Last edited by Gregski; 03-07-2020 at 03:06 PM. |
03-07-2020, 03:05 PM | #19 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning - Chart vs Time
In order to further our RPM discussion it is time to get acquainted with a new feature of HP Tuners called Chart vs Time. |
03-07-2020, 03:09 PM | #20 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning - Chart vs Time Layout
We add a Chart to our Layout in a similar fashion we have been adding the Histograms from the main Menu above Layout \ Add to Layout \ Chart vs time Last edited by Gregski; 03-07-2020 at 04:04 PM. |
03-07-2020, 03:12 PM | #21 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning - Chart vs Time: Group
I start by nuking all the default Charts and start with a clean canvas. Then I first add something called Group this is just a break or a section to keep all the squigly lines (aka Series) separated and not stepping all over each other |
03-07-2020, 03:14 PM | #22 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning - Chart vs Time: Series
once we have the Group we populate it with something called Series. Series are just visual line representations of the Channels we added already on the left hand side |
03-07-2020, 03:19 PM | #23 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Tuning
Idle Tuning
here are the Properties of the three Series I have added Engine Coolant TempUnlike the channels which are frozen once you log, you can make changes to the Series after the fact, so don't sweat it if you missed a check box or chose the wrong color or something like that. |
03-07-2020, 03:27 PM | #24 |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Timing
Idle Timing
Time to take the kids for a haircut. But I leave you with this real Chart showing what my Idle Desired RPM is ie 550 and how my actual Engine RPM dances around it. Why do you think that is? Is this normal? These questions are not rhetorical please chime in if you are following in real time. |
03-07-2020, 05:25 PM | #25 | |
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Re: HP Tuners Tutorials - Idle Timing
Quote:
BTW, I cant thank you enough for this thread. I have stumbled around for years without making any progress on my HP tuners (other than able to get stock engine to run stand alone). Suddenly with this thread I am starting to understand how it all works, and spending more time in the chevelle than I have in a long time. |
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