C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis

[1971_c10]

Hey guys, after the C10 Nationals and during post-race inspections, I found the bottom rod ends on my front anti-rollbar links were bent.




Usually bent rod ends are caused by a mis-alignment situation. No different in my case. So after some playing with the suspension I found the cause of the mis-alignment. I walk through the whole process here. If you've got the flat bent bar arms that look like this:




Then you might want to watch this:

Bent Rod Ends Root Cause - YouTube

[crakarjax]

Nice vid, I would not have though about the arm curvature changing the mounting surface angle through suspension travel! Check out "high misalignment spacer" for that upper rod end, should be all that you need to get enough travel.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by crakarjax

Nice vid, I would not have though about the arm curvature changing the mounting surface angle through suspension travel! Check out "high misalignment spacer" for that upper rod end, should be all that you need to get enough travel.

Thanks man! I didn't think about the arc either (even though I should have). When I dug into the suspension I was like doh! dumba$#! I looked at the high misalignment spacers but they insert into the ball and reduce the bore diameter plus I needed 2 new rod ends anyhow so I found some QA1 (shh, don't tell Rob) high misalignment rod ends I'm going to give a try.

[Ramjet51]

Originally Posted by 1971_c10

Thanks Boss! I haven't gotten in to the rear end yet but interesting enough the ARP kit includes flat washers where the current studs use lock(split) washers. Hmm. I think I swap out all the studs and do the RTV trick. I'm sick of this thing leaking! lol

Welll.....little blush here...more than a week later and mine started leaking again, spoke to the hogsheads builder and he suggested that the bolts in the housing weren’t torqued properly...I’ll have to call back. My bolts had the flat bronze(?) washer plus the split....I’ll update after I call

[hotrod1]

Perhaps heat the sway arm and clock (bend) the end a little to reduce the angle between it and the upper A-arm. High misalignment spacers would work but I would think the other option would be better.

[aggie91]

Have you spoken to Rob since it is his frame/suspension design about the problem? it might be something he has not seen yet or may even have a fix for it...

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by hotrod1

Perhaps heat the sway arm and clock (bend) the end a little to reduce the angle between it and the upper A-arm. High misalignment spacers would work but I would think the other option would be better.

That bar arm is aluminum. I don't have enough experience hot working aluminum to even want to try. I got the high misalignment rod ends in this week. I'm a little behind on getting stuff done as I've got the rear end torn apart at the moment, but I plan to pull a coil over and cycle the suspension with the new rod end in a see how it looks.

Originally Posted by aggie91

Have you spoken to Rob since it is his frame/suspension design about the problem? it might be something he has not seen yet or may even have a fix for it...

Not yet ... he is very hard to get ahold of during the summer as he goes to many events on the weekends (and starts on Thursday/Friday). For example, I think he's in Missouri at the NSRA event there this weekend. The easiest way in fact is to find him at an event. I talked with him a bunch at the C10 Nationals. Once I give this slightly mod'd setup a try I'll at least shoot him an email with what I found and what I did since a recent photo from the shop shows some of the chassis setups still use the same bar arm on the 3 piece front bars so it would seemingly have the same problem.

[crakarjax]

I'm sure that at no limit's scale each chassis is different and they are always evolving, so letting him know is pretty likely to result in some positive changes to their builds.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by crakarjax

I'm sure that at no limit's scale each chassis is different and they are always evolving, so letting him know is pretty likely to result in some positive changes to their builds.

Yep, for sure. I got the rod ends in and things look a bit better. Time and beating on it will tell, but no binding rod ands anymore.

A follow up video I tossed together today:

Bent Rod End Follow Up - YouTube

[1971_c10]

Oh, and another follow up... leaky 3rd member.

So I tore the rear end apart (this time I decided to go way down and pulled the brakes off to re-align the calipers a little better) and went to town. I decided while I had the 3rd member out I'd throw some paint on, so I did that first.

On to the leak. Turns out is was leaking from the gasket for sure and I wasn't quite sure if it was also leaking from the stud. So on re-assembly, I decided to just do RTV on the gasket first. So I applied some black RTV in a very thin layer to both sides of the gasket. Installed the 3rd member, but did not reseat the axles and left the driveshaft disconnected and just hand tightened all the nuts to where they were snug. I then let the housing sit one hour before torquing everything to the 35 ft-lb spec. After torquing, I let the housing sit for a good 14 hours before I filled with fluid.

Once I filled it with fluid I figured it would be about 2 hours before a leak started if one where to start (based on the last time I did this). Sure enough, it was leaking. Although this time I got lucky and as I crawled under the truck I got to witness a drop of fluid seeping out through the threads at the end of the nut. Not even through the split in the lock washer, but through the threads. Grrr.

So mod to this round, I pulled the nut, lock washer and copper washer on just that stud. I then put black RTV on both sides of the copper washer. Since this isn't inside the housing, I was very liberal with the RTV. I put the copper washer back on then put a gob of ARP thread sealant on the stud and put the lock washer/nut back on and re-torqued. I did this whole procedure very fast as the drip was at a rate of about one every 5 min, so I had limited time before more oil started to mix with my uncured RTV.

Well, so far so good. No leaks and I've gotten 2 thermal cycles on the rear end (get it hot by driving then let it cool). I'm still not 100% on this solution but it's working for now. If it start leaking again I'm going to need to take a real close look at the interface between the stud head and axle housing to see why it is leaking. We run metal to metal joints all over the jet engines I design and we don't have leaks on joints with upwards of 800 psi on them. Hmmm.

Ok, now rant, there are 4 studs below the fluid line, why this one leaks and the other 3 do not is beyond me. Frustrating for sure as it is a PIA to be pulling the 3rd member every couple weeks. But it's just ammo against my Ford buddies. Only leak I have on the entire truck is from the dang Ford part (of course none of it is Ford parts, but it's still a good jab).

[Advanced Design]

Hopefully that will get it...a good diagnostic approach and a logical repair. Admiring your tenacity. Good quality for a jet engine designer!

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

Hopefully that will get it...a good diagnostic approach and a logical repair. Admiring your tenacity. Good quality for a jet engine designer!

Thanks Doug!

An update ... after a few weeks, about 100 miles or so, no leaks! Still dry under the reared. I'll be honest though, C10CJ has been sitting now for about a week and a half. Had a family reunion this past weekend and just plain been busy with work and getting myself back in shape. But should be getting the truck out some this weekend.

The other reason the truck is sitting is I've been mulling over what to tackle next. Here's the short list:
-Add power steering cooler
-Change trans cooler over to plate style for better efficiency
-Bed Floor / mini-tubs

Also, I did toss together a video a bit back on painting the 3rd member. Nothing special but I show you how I made a very simple paint mask to protect the gears during paint and the process I used to paint, which tends to work well for me.

Third Member Painting - YouTube

[crakarjax]

Hey Chris, QQ -- how much suspension travel do you have at ride height with the no limit chassis? TIA!

[HellaciousA]

Question for you Chris, how much clearance do you have on the front coil springs to the shock plates? I have a no limit frame like you only i got viking double adjustables instead of ride techs. I have only about a 16th of an inch clearance and im worried it will make contact while driving.

Im no where near your progress but i really appreciate how thorough you are with what you post.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by crakarjax

Hey Chris, QQ -- how much suspension travel do you have at ride height with the no limit chassis? TIA!

Hey man, so sorry for the late reply. July was a very busy work month for me. Trying to get caught back up on things. On the front's I've got a little over 2" and the back closer to 3" travel in the compression direction. Both using 5.2" stroke shocks. I've got the setup so the shocks are close to the sweet spot on stroke (i.e. the center).

Originally Posted by HellaciousA

Question for you Chris, how much clearance do you have on the front coil springs to the shock plates? I have a no limit frame like you only i got viking double adjustables instead of ride techs. I have only about a 16th of an inch clearance and im worried it will make contact while driving.

Im no where near your progress but i really appreciate how thorough you are with what you post.

Hey man, I think I know which clearance you are talking about, but wanted to post a pic to be sure. See the area where the red arrow is pointed in the pic below. Is that the clearance you are talking about? What I found is the coil-overs must be installed in the position I've got them in, i.e. the rod end on the shock shaft must be down and on the A-arm. Otherwise the coil sits too high and hits the shock tower when the suspension is loaded up. The other thing is spring length. If you have too long of a spring the spring could be sitting up really high on the shock body. That would cause the same clearance issue.

[1971_c10]

Hey guys, a little video I tossed together from last weekend's cars and coffee here in CO. This one is getting huge. It's hosted by Adam's Polishes and is starting to draw cars/trucks in from the entire Denver metro area. I met the new owner of the truck SS01 (built by squarebody syndicate, the one that sold on auction for >100k) a couple months ago. Also met another board member who also lives here on the north side of Denver.

SS01



SS01's posse


The video from this past weekend's Cars and Coffee

Cars and Coffee, Lafayette, CO, Aug 4, 2018 -...

[BigDaddyV]

I didn't realize that was so close to me now. I moved to Grand Island NE last year. I may have to make it to the next one with one or both of my trucks.
Defiantly looks fun!

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyV

I didn't realize that was so close to me now. I moved to Grand Island NE last year. I may have to make it to the next one with one or both of my trucks.
Defiantly looks fun!

That might be a bit of a hike for an informal show ... but, if you want something more formal, then GoodGuys is in Loveland, CO Sep 7-9, and I'll be there! Last year they said they pulled in close to 2500 cars. I have no clue what the numbers will be this year, but over 2000 seems to be consistent for that show.

[1971_c10]

... and sorry for the lack of updates. August was a very busy work month. September is shaping up to be a busy month in general.

The short list of stuff to be done (some of this has been on the list a long time, lol):
-Add a small cooler to the power steering
-Change the trans cooler over to a dedicated unit (man, this is harder than you think, I don't have a good place to put the unit I'm looking at)
-Bed Floor
-Center console

The long list
-Thinking about some nice bucket seats to keep my rear end firmly planted
-Interior cleanup work (dash pad is painted), door panels and visors need repainted. Door panels need new fabric.
-At some point I need new carpet

And don't forget I'll be at GoodGuys Colorado Sep 7-9 if you're in the area.

[crakarjax]

Funny, I just bought a Derale 13215 power steering cooler and a Derale 13403 stacked plate trans cooler before checking my subs here. eBay has a 15% off sale today so I took the opportunity to get some stuff on my list!

The Derale trans coolers are nice, made in USA and sport AN6 fittings.

[1971_c10]

Good stuff man! I was just checking out coolers tonight. Looking at the Earl's coolers and then tossed in the Derale coolers. Man the Earl's are expensive.

I'm actually looking at the Derale 13740 (similar to the EARL's FP820ERL, but half the price) for the trans. I am thinking of moving the trans cooler to either the bed (under the bed floor in the front) or under passenger side of the cab. I want to decouple the trans cooling from the radiator completely, meaning I don't even want the hot air from the trans cooler entering the radiator flow.

Their power steering kit is interesting too. Much more cost effective as well. Thanks for the pointers!

[crakarjax]

I'd love to put the trans cooler under the cab but I'm worried about airflow vs. cooling capacity. Ah, I see the one you're looking at comes with fans -- that crossed my mind but I thought I'd avoid the maintenance associated with small electric fans... but now I'm having second thoughts

That Derale cooler is stacked plate, which is more efficient than plate and fin. Looks like a pretty good deal compared to the Earl's option!

[knomadd]

Just came across a cool mount last night. AZProPerformance just came out with a new line of parts (or so they said on Facebook... It's branded React Suspension) and they happen to have a remote trans cooler mount made for the derale 13740 cooler:
https://reactsuspension.com/collecti...cket-63-87-c10

[crakarjax]

I kinda wish I'd have bought the 13740 now! I like the idea of moving that weight back and saving some space, and using shorter lines. I was thinking about mounting it to the frame and floor with standoffs actually, in about the spot that React mount sits.

[1971_c10]

I'm gonna make you really jealous now crakarjax ... 13740 ordered

I also ordered an Earls temp-a-cure 10 row narrow for the power steering. I went that direction so I can compare the build quality between Derale and Earls.

I'm going to see if I can get the power steering cooler installed before Goodguys. I'll also make an attempt at the trans cooler, but that one requires me to do some mods to the wiring which requires some surgery. So that may get bumped post Goodguys.

And Duane, thanks for the link! I saw that mount in a Pro Perf FB post and wondered what the heck it was! I may have to leverage that if I decide to put it under the cab, but I was actually thinking I'd mount it fans facing the ground. I'm still trying to decide between under the cab and in the bed. Once I get the unit I can then hold it in place and see which location I like better. I looked from the bed forward and it's a straight shot to the cooler lines right along the tunnel. I was pleasantly surprised by that. So I may hard line it from the front of the tunnel all the way to the cooler, then just use some Pro-Lite 350 from the trans to there to allow for trans movement.

Thanks guys for the feedback! This will get interesting for sure!