46 pickemup in NJ "the Rebuild"

[paintman]

How come you didn't put your "puppy" in the bed of the truck![/QUOTE]

That is not allowed in the socialist republic of New Jersey. In fact there is talk about banning pets in vehicles altogther except for trips to vet.

[joedoh]

youre welcome, forgot to add the truck looks like a lot of fun and your neighborhood reminds me of where I grew up in western pa.

[CURSED GEARS]

Congrats on the first drive! I'm happy for you. You made me remember my first drive out into the world when I first finished mine.

[paintman]

So does anybody have any thoughts on why my brakes are so soft? When the motor is off the pedal seems pretty good and has a firm feeling from the top of the throw all the way to the bottom. As soon as I turn the motor on, I have zero pedal until almost 1/2 -2/3 of the way down, then I have half way decent brakes. The truck is drivable like this but not safe or comfortable at all.

I was thinking first to disconnect the vacuum line to the booster and see how the brakes work like that for awhile.

The other thing I was thinking is perhaps the residual valves are the problem. When I did my brake lines I put the valves in just to be on the safe side but looking at the truck now that it is on the ground, the master cylinder is definately higher then the front calipers. The rear wheel cylinders apear to be at or slightly higher then the master cylinder. I thought I read somwhere that these residual valves could be a problem if installed when not needed.

I have messed with the proportioning valve and that seems to have no effect one way or the other.

The only other thing I am thinking is that the master cylinder is to small????????

Any thoughts? Anybody? Hello? Bueller? Ferris Bueller?

[solidaxel]

We ended up with a 15/16" M/C and now we have good brakes
We started with a 1 1/8, then a 1" and now a 15/16" and that seemed to work the best.
At least now we can stop the tires when on demand!
When we backed it out of the garage the first time it would not stop ,
They said the pads were too hard and needed to be broken in, that did not help
Bled the brakes the brakes at least 10 times !

[joedoh]

nice! I used to have a hard time bleeding brakes then I took Hussey's advice and bought a vacuum bleeder from Cardboard Freight (Harbor Freight) and now even the most stubborn brakes bleed the first time.

[paintman]

While were on the subject of brakes........ does anybody know if having a residual valve on the front disc circuit would cause my problems? I put it in thinking my master cylinder was going to be below the calipers but it looks as if it is slightly above. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm......I was also wondering if having 3/16 line to the rear drums might be my problem.

My other thought was perhaps my MC is not sized matched properly with my wheel cylinders. Anybody know what size wheel cylinders are in a 70's 12 truck rear?

Stay tuned for pics, I have the nose of the truck back on. (WHAT A JOB THAT WAS)! I am just waiting on some gaskets for the headlight buckets.

[solidaxel]

Originally Posted by paintman

While were on the subject of brakes........ does anybody know if having a residual valve on the front disc circuit would cause my problems? I put it in thinking my master cylinder was going to be below the calipers but it looks as if it is slightly above. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm......I was also wondering if having 3/16 line to the rear drums might be my problem.

My other thought was perhaps my MC is not sized matched properly with my wheel cylinders. Anybody know what size wheel cylinders are in a 70's 12 truck rear?

Stay tuned for pics, I have the nose of the truck back on. (WHAT A JOB THAT WAS)! I am just waiting on some gaskets for the headlight buckets.

You should just about be finished with "What a Job that was"

[solidaxel]

Originally Posted by joedoh

nice! I used to have a hard time bleeding brakes then I took Hussey's advice and bought a vacuum bleeder from Cardboard Freight (Harbor Freight) and now even the most stubborn brakes bleed the first time.

Yes, I have one of those and we ran at least a Quart of fluid with a commercial
Vacuum bleeder, with each M/C change

[solidaxel]

How are the brakes.................?

[paintman]

Originally Posted by solidaxel

How are the brakes.................?

Hey Solid! Funny I was just in the process of "Pming" you.
Upon further review of my brakes. As mentioned I have a pretty good leak at my rear residual valve. I have since replace the hole valve with new fittings.

I think my other problem is the clearance between the booster plunger and the MC. I did all the measurements and it seems I have about 3-4mm gap between the plunger and the bullet. Shouldn't the gap be alot closer??????? I think I read somewhere it should be 1/2 a mm? If so that would explain a lot.

I am on my way out to see if I can find a digital mic. At my age those little lines are hard to read much less understand. LOL! Anybody know what the clearance should be?????? I have a buddy of mine comming tomorrow to help re-bleed the system. Stay tuned.

[solidaxel]

Just space it out until you can not get a 1/8" between the M/C and the booster bolts
Move in or out as needed to get a little play, interference,
Can you remove the M/C far enough without distrubing the brake lines (opening the fittings)

[paintman]

[QUOTE=solidaxel;8007656]Just space it out until you can not get a 1/8" between the M/C and the booster bolts

Wouldn't that put the plunger and bullet in full contact all the time???????
No I have solid lines that does not allow me to loosen the cylinder. Stupid me....

[solidaxel]

Yes but at least you know how much MORE adjustment you need !!
You did a real nice job on your hard lines, you only need a few inches!!

[paintman]

Ok , thanks again Solid for all your help. We will be jumping on it first thing tomorrow morning. Hopefully it will be back on the road by the afternoon!

[paintman]

OOOOOOOKKKKKKK, so my buddy (who makes his living as a mechanic), and I spent about 6 hours working on the brakes. Here is what we did.

First I took the booster and MC out of the truck to measure the gap between the booster rod and the bullet inside the MC, and check the bore size. Turns out it looks to be a 1" bore MC as it mics just over 1" but not 1-1/8 for sure.

Turns out I had 4mm of gap. way to big. Only problem was there seemed to be no way to adjust the booster rod. At the very end of the booster rod was a small fitting that looked just like a bleeder valve only with no hole. Even if I could have gotten it cracked loose, there was not enough thread inside the fitting to turn it out enough to make the rod longer. Furthermore, there was no jam nut on the back side of this fitting so it seemed to me that even if I did turn the fitting out, it would eventually just turn back in until it bottomed out on it's own threads.

Soooooo, here is what we did. We pulled the bullet out and set 2 -10/32 flat washers down in the bore behind the bullet. These washers turned out to be the perfect size for the bore. we tried 3 washers but that was to much and did not allow me to tighten the MC back down onto the booster. So we just used 2 washers which left me with a clearance of .83mm between the booster rod and the bullet.

I also found a leak in the brass fitting inside the rear residual valve so I swapped it out for a new #10 just to be on the safe side. Also pulled the check valve out of the booster and checked that and all was well.

After putting everything back together we bled the brakes again and ran about quart of fluid through the lines. All that provided me with a much better pedal with the engine off then what I had previously. Then we went around a triple checked all my fittings for any leaks, and found none. BONE DRY!!!!!!!!

We then pulled the rear wheels off and adjusted up on the rear pads. This is a bit of a pain in the ass because for some reason my backing plates have no access hole to get into the star adjuster. So we just adjusted the pads until we couldn't get the drums on and then backed off 2 clicks and shoved the drums back on. Definately tight enough because we couldn't turn the drums by hand.

So next it was on to starting the engine and seeing what we had. Well.... I can say that I certainly have better braking, but I still get the 2" sloppy drop in the pedal. honestly there is absolutely no pedal for the first 2 inches of travel. As soon as we trun the engine off, I get a good pedal again from the top of the throw to the bottom.

So first thing we did was take the vacumm line off, plug it and went for a test ride. NO GOOD! DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME! DANGER WILL ROBINSON! seriously it was like tring to stop a train. it toook about 100 yards to stop going 20 mph.

So we went back into the garge and reconnected the vacuum and got decent brakes again. I would say about 80% of what I would like to have.

So then we messed around with the prop valve and got the truck to where I think it is safe to drive and definately throws your head forward when you step on the brakes but to me that first 2" of drop just does not feel comfortable. Perhaps it is just a left over from my racing days when I liked a real quick pedal in that O **** situation. But it still isn't even close to my work truck or daily jeep driver with good pedal response.

I am curious to know the inner workings of the booster. That is to say is there an adjust on the front side push rod that connects with the pedal. I know I can turn the heim in and out to raise and lower the pedal but that does not have effect on the drop in the pedal. I'm thinking there has to be some kind of gap between the front pushrod and the rear pushrod.....Hmmmmmm

So that's where I am at I have decent brakes. good enough to drive around town but something is just not right. So maybe a bigger MC or perhaps a smaller MC I have no clue either way big pain in the ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[solidaxel]

Welcome to my world !!

I think the rear drums that came with your rear end , if it was a used item, had a slot in the drum to adj the brakes from the front
Maby 4 1/4" holes in the backing plates at the center of the star wheel would correct that

I agree, I like to have complete control of the tires and pavement when I apply the brakes

Keep us posted on where you find the 2" of slop in the booster/pedal

[paintman]

Ok, so for now I think I am going to call it done and spend the rest of the good weather driving it! I can't even begin to describe how burned out I am!

I think I want to run it without the hood. If I do end up running the hood, it will certainly be without the side panels.

Anyways I finished hanging the nose and headlight buckets. WHAT ALOT OF FRIGGIN WORK THAT WAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Especially when you have a bad back. I think I crawled under the front fenders a 100 times trying to get everything lined up. I still need to put the rear glass in but I have to con a friend because it is a 2 man job for sure.

The brakes are about 90% on the way to being what i like. I'm not sure if I need a bigger MC or smaller one. Hmmmmmm. My next big decision is wheels and tires. After that, over the Winter, the seat will come back out and get re-done with black upholstery and white stitching. Also I still have to throw some black carpet on the cab floor.

I have a buddy of mine who is a sign painter so I have to get him over and throw some white pin stripping on, and perhaps some door art. I have this design in my mind for the doors.......I just have to get it put on paper first so I can see it before i pull the trigger. Trust me it will certainly turn some heads

A poll:
Black wheels with black tires
Black wheels with wide whites
White wheels with black tires

Heres hoping I can upload some pics from imgur.............

[solidaxel]

Have fun and put some miles on the truck, you earned many, many of them !

I have my favorite 46 back for some CEL codes, so I get to drive it to find the problem. Oh darn !
The truck has 5700 miles and I have not been it for awhile, and now the brakes are working great, so maybe when everything gets seated in, yours will work even better
I agree with the hood sides off, at least until next winter. by then you will be done checking everything !!

[joedoh]

looks amazing! congrats!

[paintman]

Soooooo, as I have mentioned in previous posts, Mr. Magoo could care less. But after seeing this in the driveway.


Not to mention hearing that the paintman was looking for another project. He proceeded to show his displeasure with his master. Please no don't do it, don't do it! You swore you would never build another truck! Don't go, Don't go!

[paintman]

What could the Paintman possibly be up to..................................

[gokellurself]

hooo man here we go!

[joedoh]

lucky! they told me I couldnt haul a "full size truck" on the trailer, I tried explaining but it was no use. I bought a trailer instead haha

[solidaxel]

Do I see a 2" chop and a hot rod !