The Official John Lee Jr Thread

[Sharps40]

I'm headin to Andrews SC in mid Sept with Dad to hunt deer in the buggy hot humidity with rifles in hand and bugs in my eyes!!! We'll be down that way again in late Oct/early Nov to hunt deer in the slightly cooler somewhat less humid and same amount of buggy SC winter!

[Sharps40]

So far the Turtle Wax Ice seems to be a decent product. I'd washed and Iced John Lee several weeks prior to the trip to SC last month. It looked great and the Ice is easy on and off. Beads nice and the windshield wipers don't squeak and the windshield is easier to clean later.

John Lee got pretty dirty and plenty of small spots from tree sap and bugs. Went out for a ride in yesterday evenings gully washer....John Lee is pretty spankey clean now! I think I'll try another bottle of this stuff on Momma's Jeep. Might just have found a $7 Labor Saver.

[Sharps40]

I recently pulled out an old school accessory, syphon blocker....it rattled in the filler pipe. Hard to track down and eliminate that noise. But in the process, was able to replace the fuel filler hose and put on new clamps, so no fuel smell/leaks. Last tank or two, I was noticing a fuel smell even after getting past the halfway point. Unusual. I usually have a fuel smell for a short time after fill up but its always gone after 30 miles....nosin around the tank, I wiped my fingers on the sender unit and sniffed em...gasoline on my fingers....just a touch where there was no gas smell on my hands before. So, remembering a strong fuel smell in my old 37 Dodge Sedan I checked the sender screws...yep, they all pulled up about 1/4 to 3/8 turn tighter. Musta been installed gently when the new tank was put in there last year for the first start up since 1994. And now, several hours later, no fuel smell! Fixed....

[Sharps40]

Next to removing the single pot master and splitting front brakes from rear then adding a dual pot master, I think one of the best and likely cheapest ($30 or under) safety upgrades you can make on these old trucks....(Lasttombstone, listen up - that one of yours probably needs this mod!) is to replace the 7/16" lower control arm u-bolts with the more modern and less prone to breakage 9/16" u-bolts. If everything goes well, its about a 3 hour or less job and you won't loose the lower half of the suspension when one of them old and just a whisker larger than muffler clamp u-bolts lets go. Typically, on these old trucks the stock 7/16" bolts break when turning, especially backing up. Over the years GM upgraded to 1/2" u-bolts, which also break. Then finally to 9/16". Haven't heard of these breaking. They are a close fit, very close but follow along and we'll get em in and just enough room for a socket on the big prevailing torque nuts at the front inners with a bit of dimpling of the cross member.

If your rebuilding the front end, pefect time to do this mod when the lowers are off. If you just want piece of mind and safety, jack stands and jacks and don't get under the control arm any longer than you have to, always do one at a time so you at least have some extra margin of safety. i.e. I only removed one shackle at a time...installed the new one, torqued it and then removed the second shackle....!!!

When you have the jacks and stands right, loosening the stock u-bolt will see it become floppy but the control arm stays firmly against the cross member. If the control arm is moveing down, retighten, reposition jacks and stands and then loosen again. You want all that energy in the spring contained by the stands and the jacks, not torquin the control arm shaft against the other shackle while yer under it all.



On Ol John Lee, the 64 C10 I used the LMC u-bolts. At $15 each and w/o prevailing torque nuts, they were highly expensive but worked just fine. If there is an advange to the LMC u-bolts, its that they have taller nuts allowing standard sockets to be used. I almost had to go to a deep well socket to get these Dormans in place. By the way, these are available from Oreillys and Auto Zone for $8.99 a pair. Considering there was no shipping, about 1/3 the cost of four bolts from LMC. And, I like the prevailing torque nuts better, no lock washers required.



The old and the new side by side. A huge difference in brute strength. I'll be more comfortable with my lowers riding in these new beefy u-bolts. Got a lotta miles to cover starting in Sept, its hunting season all over again!



Drill bit is 9/16" diameter, rebated shank to use in a 3/8 reversible drill and available at Lowes under $10 per bit. Plenty good for this job, it'll go thru 8 holes lickety split, the crossmember is not hardened steel.



Working with a steel rod, held in vice grips, use the medium SmashWacker (or an air hammer) to dimple in the cross member where the front inner prevailing torque nuts will spin on. This clearance is needed to get a 7/8" socket onto the nut and spin it down to torque spec. The PS front inner will need a deeper dimple than the DS front inner. This was the same situation on Ol John Lee the 64. So, it seems that consistently in 64 and 65 the cross members had a shape that was slightly different from side to side. But in any event, its good news that there is just enough room to install these later model and much stronger u-bolts on the lower control arm cross shafts.



These dorman u-bolts are a bit finer finished than the LMCs. The LMCs are not coated with a gold rust proofing. In addition, the LMCs were too "open", I had to install nuts and smack em with a large SmasherWacker to close em up to go into the holes. These Dormans are just fine, drill the holes to 9/16 and tap them right on into place. Here I'm drawing up the prevailing torque nuts evenly, alternating back and forth until its time to put on the torque wrench and finish them up at about 80 foot pounds. (My spec, the 7/16 factory nuts backed off easy with 8" long 3/8 drive wrench!



Just to be sure, I compared the old and the new for thread depth....there is sufficient extra thread on the Dorman replacments that I will not need spacers or washers under the prevailing torque nuts...just run em on and torque em down.

[Sharps40]

The divers side front shackle completed and torqued.



A bit of cleaning to do before the winter suspension rebuild, but the dirt out of the way here so nuts and bolts can bottom on steel not on grit.



A shot of the Drivers side front and rear completed. Lather and repeat for the passenger side. Also, if you are running brake lines before doing this job, hump them up about 3" above the u-bolts on the rear of the crossmember. It'll give ya enough room to drill the holes from the bottom and wrench on the new ubolts from the top w/o pinchin a spanky new line.



That's it. Suspension safer and confident for the long drives to/from Hunting Camps starting in Sept. Time to clean up, smoke a cigar and go for a ride to validate the suspension mods and to see if I got the fuel stink fixed.

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by Sharps40

I recently pulled out an old school accessory, syphon blocker....it rattled in the filler pipe. Hard to track down and eliminate that noise. But in the process, was able to replace the fuel filler hose and put on new clamps, so no fuel smell/leaks. Last tank or two, I was noticing a fuel smell even after getting past the halfway point. Unusual. I usually have a fuel smell for a short time after fill up but its always gone after 30 miles....nosin around the tank, I wiped my fingers on the sender unit and sniffed em...gasoline on my fingers....just a touch where there was no gas smell on my hands before. So, remembering a strong fuel smell in my old 37 Dodge Sedan I checked the sender screws...yep, they all pulled up about 1/4 to 3/8 turn tighter. Musta been installed gently when the new tank was put in there last year for the first start up since 1994. And now, several hours later, no fuel smell! Fixed....

Originally Posted by Sharps40

Update on this fix....woops, Nope!!!! Snuggin up the screws stopped the vapors below 3/4 tank but I filled John Lee up this morning (17.3 mpg combined Hwy/City on the Weber this tank!) and wet, wet, wet. Not runnin out the gasket but weepin pretty hard. Naturally, nothing available locally so I syphoned off 2.5 gallons of gas. That got the level just below the lower edge of the sending unit and pulled the sender. Naturally, the rubber gasket had cracked at the junction of the two lowest screw holes, fuel was weepin up from under the screw heads and slowly creeping down the outside of the tank. Just enough to wet the floor.

So, for the time being and till I can order a couple spare rubber gaskets or locate rubber gasket sheet...off to my stash of bring whatcha got supplies. In this case, Blue FelPro rubberized gasket sheet almost as thick as the damaged gasket. And, naturally, and I know ye'll yell, you guessed it, a smear coat of blugoo on my new hand made Felpro sending unit gasket. But its in, the weeping stopped and after a hard ride to slosh it around, all is dry and the stink fadeing quickly into my memory. I'll retop the tank tomorrow after the blugoo has 24 hrs to set and if all is well I'll be comfortable till the new rubber gaskets can be acquired.

[jayoldschool]

Thanks for the updates, great work as usual!

[Sharps40]

I'm bout to go out and sniff the garage for fuel stink. As of 11 last night, dry and the only smell was fresh mown grass. If its all good I'll top the ol boy off and head off to the gun range to sight in my 1886 for deer season!

[Sharps40]

Sold the daily driver Chrysler Sebring today. That means John Lee Jr is now on duty as the O-Fish-Al Daily Driver. John Lee Jr is running strong and safe and with perfect reliability, it was time to let the Chrysler go to a new home and thereby fix the notch on my man card.

Just a request for all of the unlicensed, uninsured and generally wack-a-doo drivers out there, I'll be in the right lane never goin more than 65 mph. Please stay a safe and respectable distance from John Lee Jr. We'd both appreciate it a whole bunch!

See ya on the roads, daily!

[Sharps40]

Update Number 2 on this Leakey fuel tank sending unit gasket fix....Sealed, dry, not wet, no vapor, no stink. Ran 180 miles today, from full to the brim to just under 1/2 tank.....not a drop of gas leakin out....seems to be a good fix. Oh thank Heavens for FelPro and Blugoo!

[Sharps40]

PS, the 1886 Winchester is Dead Nuts on the money at 100m with 405 grain lead flat nose bullets running about 1550 feet per second. This one is my extra large SmasherWacker. The deer in NC and SC are goin down hard starting at 0600 hours on 16 September!

[Sharps40]

Todays email to Tom Langdon over at Stovebolt Engine Company...

1. On my Weber 32/36, as an update I'm running great on the carb from you at 70 idle mix jet, 125 primary main jet and 165 secondary main jet. Averaging 17 to 18 mpg combined in my 65 C10 with rebuilt stock 250 and 3 speed/3.73 rear.

I think the primary and idle is figured out/dialed in. Pretty good power over the entire range. There was not much improvement changing from 160 secondary to 165 secondary main jet. So, I'm leaving it alone for now.

I note the secondary has a small body #50 idle jet on the outside. Any chance this functions like the primary idle jet, and richening it up a bit could somewhat improve 3rd gear hill climbing power from say 45 MPH/2300 rpm and up to WOT?

2. Also, might be time to change the old peanut 3 speed on the tree to a floor shift T5. Trans I got figured, get one from you. What else do I need between the flywheel and front driveshaft yolk. Is this a simple bolt in or am I looking at changing any or all of the clutch/pressure plate, throwout bearing, shift fork and forward drive shaft yolk? What shifter for bench seat?

Basically, is there an opportunity (if I can afford it) I can one stop shop all the conversion parts from you?

V.R.

Rich

[jayoldschool]

Another good idea for the trans would be the 3 speed OD trans... less work than the 5 speed, and less money, too.

[shok]

What's the 3spd OD trans?
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[Sharps40]

I don't know. I think its the old one with electronic controls that splits gears and so ya have a 6 speed trans? If so, I wouldn't go that route.

[shok]

Yeah I've seen some OD option in the repro owners guide that looks pretty cool, and I think that's what you are talking about, but no way is getting a hold of that setup gonna be cheaper or easier than a t5 swap. Maybe jay is talking about an additional option.
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[PaysonBolter]

This is a fantastic thread Sharps! Thanks you for sharing!

I just picked up a 66 c10 nearly identical to yours, except mine needs a lot more TLC. LOTS of body work and probably a whole new drive train. Currently has what seems to be a '77 nova 250 in it with a lot of, uhh, 'rigging' to make it run. Has the integrated head, crappy old single carb and was most likely a junkyard engine put in to make it run.

I'm doing a near frame off mainly just to fix some of the rust, bed off but cab will only be lifted enough to replace the cab supports and new bushings. Seriously considering just having Mr. Landgon just build me out a fresh street performance 250 + t5 and clutch package, then take it down to a drive line shop to fabricate a new shaft and rebuild the rear end (3.73).

My goals seem to be the same as yours. I want a nice running daily driver that looks good, feels good, runs good, gets decent mileage and I can take on the highway for occasional trips down to the big city without needing to get out and push I don't want nor need a show car, she gets enough attention in her poor shape as it is

As she sits now I get looks and nods whenever I take it down to wally-world or the orange box store for a pile of lumber. She is a just a nice old truck and has such a simple and functional design, how could you not love these things?

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to document your work here, I most certainly will be using some of it for reference as I rebuild my old girl. Still trying to name her...Thinking of something along the lines of 'Patsy'

[Sharps40]

Patsy Kline. Momma used to baby sit for here when she was just startin out in the Hagerstown MD.

Glad ya like/find some use from the thread on both Ol John Lee and John Lee Jr. Every lil bit helps so post up yer details in a build thread or blog too!

Post up some pics of yer ride. It can't be any worse than Ol John Lee (linked in post 1) the 64 that I had to part out after the accident.

If ya swap away from the integral head on the 6, try for 1971 and up head....it'll get ya hardened valve seats for unleaded gas use.

Smart moves, go bottom to top, cosmetics dead last. Glad to see ya tweakin suspension/brakes/drive line first. Follow up with electrics and ye'll have a safe driver that ya can polish the turds off of as ya go! But, them trucks that look like they been in a crapstorm, but run great, are all the rage. Can't tell ya how many times folks walked up to Ol John Lee, checkbook in hand, wantin to buy him straight up and on the spot. They call it patina, I call it bein in his workin cloths.

I'm refreshing my love affair with I6s. They just love to run. That Weber really growls when pullin hills at 55 and up...sounds good. Growlin up front and hummin out the Thrush. Good as it is, hopefully, I can afford the T5 swap here real soon and make it even better. Specially since John Lee Jr is now on line as The Daily Driver!

[Sharps40]

Been monitorin John Lee pretty close here as we've moved toward daily driver status. As ya know, been adjusting a Weber 32/36 a lot and believe we finally got it all in for fine performance and great mileage. I'd noticed a bit of wobble on hot restarts....it was like it was loaded up and often needed a kick in the pedal to clear the intake log and get it back to steady idle.

Gave it a bit of thought, I had tightened up the lectric choke a while back....and lectric chokes cool off quicker than maifold well chokes...could be too rich on the hot restart.

So, I looseed the choke one notch and over the past several days, the hot restarts are plenty smooth and no more kickin the pedal to flush out the log....just smooth idle...nice.

And as I wait for input from Mr. Langdon at Stovebolt Engine Co on a possible T5 swap decided to follow his instructions, just a bit more. I installed his HEI a while back, gapping the plugs .045", he recommended .060". I pulled em all for a color check, and they are all still fine, light brown, no black flecks, no oil/no carbon fluff and decided to open em up to .055". Cold start this morning was just fine. If there are no issues, I spect I'll leave em here since with my shakey hands, they're llikely closer to the recommended 60 thou than 55 anyway.

[Sharps40]

Heres the latest...and I guess if yer workin on a Weber 32/36 on an inline 6 ya oughta keep on a tweakin cause its worth it.

I run thru a full tank since the 18th of august, usein the new settings on the choke and the wider gap on the plugs. Plenty smooth and powerful....easy starts hot or cold.

Decided to top it off today for the ride home from work...after all I was readin just on the E line and 296 miles behind the rear wheels. It took 15.22 gallons of regular to fill up the tank. Wasn't wondering much till I ran the math, twice....19.45 mpg on this tank, mostly rural highways, 60 or so mph!


Sure wish Mr. Langdon was done with vacation so we could talk T5 trannies....the performance hone on the engine is lookin strongly like a more efficient transmission is worth while.....tap, tap, tap, (toes on the floor countin time...)

[Sharps40]

Off to the garage to see what else can be tweaked.

[jhrusk]

this is a cool thread,really like the truck.

[Sharps40]

Thanks. Spent the day drivin around, fine tweakin the carb and choke. I have a secondary mix jet comein. I found a lean hole at 2300 rpm pulling steep hill in third and with a 70 on the primary and a 50 on the secondary, I think the gap is too wide/secondary is running lean between the main and WOT.

I went back today and tweaked the linkage to get a fuller stroke on both barrels too. I don't think that's where the lean hole stems from though....its well below WOT and only when pulling hard grades in third at 50 mph. I think the secondary mix is lean. We'll see, a new jet is on the way.

But the tweaking today was all in the way of fine tuning the lean best idle. The carb butterflys are damn near closed at idle now. I was able to fine tune the adjustment screw back from just under one turn to only 2/3 turns. Vacuum on the port reads 0 at idle....perfect, all the idle is on the primary idle jet and all the transition to 2500 rpm is on that same jet...nice thing is its not pullin idle fuel from the transition so the performance is much better.

Each time we drive this truck we are a bit amazed at its modern like manners from the motor. I'm still chompin at the bit for Stovebolts to open back up the end of the month so I can see about getting an efficient/modern and hopefully much quieter T5 trans in there.

[Sharps40]

Good news...Deer hauler (Tow Hitch) is installed in time for the first trip to the Low Country. Keeps the ice and weight down low where me and Dad don't have to lift it up and in or out.

The hitch is Reese, multifit, 6000 lb rated and for Jeeps Cherokees, Astro Vans, Dodge Rams and some Chevy Trucks....it fits a 1965 perfectly and retains the Factory spare tire mount in the factory bolt holes (assuming yer runnin a 225/70R15 like John Lee) and its tucked in and under and not visible when the draw bar is not installed. Nice....like it was made for it.

Now, got this one at Wall Mart but if ya order it from Advance Auto, online with code P20 ya get 20% off and free shipping bringing the delivered price for this good hitch to $104...good price by any measure.

Heres the part number and specs....



Tucks in there pretty nicely and not too many holes to drill, 5 total, 4 in the frame, one in the PS side attachment plate and details below.



Here on the driver side frame horn, three of the four factory holes in the attachment plate can be used....I lined up hole two (carriage bolt head) with the rearmost hole in the frame, drilled holes three and four in the frame and bolted it up...



Here on the passenger side I used the same alignment...but modified attachment plate hole two to allow pass over on the tire carrier bolt.....drilled a new hole two in the attachment plate (right of the tire carrier bolt). This new hole lined up with a rivet in a crossbar....blew out the rivet and replaced it with new bolt in new hole number 2. Drilled the frame for holes three and four and snugged this attachment plate up tight.



Some heads up, some heads down, depends on the amount of clearance from the inside rear bumper brackets.....close up of the PS attachment...

Note with these brackets I kicked hole number one just off the frame, gave me another inch to install the tire in its original mounting holes and still clear the PanHard Bar on the axle...neat...



Its all in there, tire looks tight but plenty of wiggle room and I just remembered, gotta go back down and snug it up after typing this!!! The ball sits out just far enough from the bumper to drop on the small trailers I plan to be pulling...I think a big hitch from a uhaul will fit fine too.



Big Sexy has his Draw Bar on....



Big Sexy chillin with his Draw Bar tucked away behind the seat...

[Low Elco]

PM Brad54, I think, on the alternative OD. A-833 3spd w/OD from early 80's trucks. Damn near bolt on and work great if you're not a racer. He knows s lot about em. He's the guy that made the '62 swaybars. Love 'ol Big Sexy!
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