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#1 |
Post Whore
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Re: Restoring Rusty
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#2 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Bloomington Indiana
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Re: Restoring Rusty
The setup that worked best for me is 16 base, 20 centrifugal, giving 36 total, and 15 vacuum.
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Rich Weyand 1978 K10 RCSB DD. |
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#3 | |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
Quote:
I ask because before I messed with anything I had a similar setup 16 + 23 centrifugal, giving me 32 total somehow (maybe reading error on my part) But my All In Timing was 55*, which I never understood since there should be little to no Vacuum advance at 3500 RPM so how could 10 Initial plus 23 Mechanical add up to 55, that leaves me with 15 vacuum at WOT, made no sense, so I started messing with it I think for starters I need to get a timing tape put on my harmonic balancer so I don't rely on my digital Snap On timing light to get the Total Timing numbers, as that's tricky to do with one light |
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#4 |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
a buddy of mine gave me this CRANE CAMS Adjustable Vacuum Advance Kit part number 99600-1 it comes with a set of springs
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#5 |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
so what did I do? I went out and bought my own, ha ha, what do you do after you buy a cheap distributor and one cheap kit for it? well naturally you go out and buy another cheap kit for it, a Financial Wizard I'm not!
Yup, another Made in Taiwan Proform kit part number 66952C. Now hear me out, I really couldn't tell if the canister on my distributor was adjustable or not, who ever said well just look inside that tinny vacuum hole and you will be able to tell, has never done it themselves or has Superman vision, cause I couldn't tell even with the distributor off the truck outside with the sun shinning and me using a flashlight to see whats in there, so I have no idea how they can see in there with the unit still in the truck, IMPOSSIBLE I tell ya anyway plus I wanted to have a Proform unit to go with the Proform distributor, I am just built that way is all I am sayin', possibly some of you may relate Last edited by Gregski; 05-31-2016 at 08:54 AM. |
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#6 |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
using the provided little alan wrench I was able to confirm that indeed my old vacuum canister is NOT adjustable
so then I decided to see how much adjustability is in that new canister first Pic is where we started turning from we'll say 1:00 o'clock second Pic is where we ended up after 4 counter clockwise turns (to the left) we ended up somewhere around 8:00 o'clock so it has about 4 1/2 turns of adjustability |
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#7 |
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Re: Restoring Rusty - Distributor Vacuum Canister Removal
then it was time to remove my non adjustable vacuum canister
it is only held on with two philip head bolts made out of very soft metal I found out (surprise) I don't think you have to remove the springs and weights first but I did to improve visibility plus as I said before, I wanted those cheap(er) parts off anyway |
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#8 |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
I am not sure if one can tell a non adjustable canister (left) from an adjustable unit (right) simply by their outside physical appearance, but here they are side by side, the adjustable one does have that hex section on the canister where the other one doesn't
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#9 |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
and soon enuff we had the new canister in place on the distributor
this is an easy job, especially with the unit off the truck and on a workbench |
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#10 |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
and the original weights and springs back on the distributor
it is a task I would recommend everyone attempt at least once, yes even if you don't need an adjustable vacuum canister or different weights and springs, I say that to make you appreciate the newer distributor less systems, ha ha its sort of like learning long hand math first before the teacher allows you to use the calculator, (well shoot I know what you is thinking, you want that than "treat" yourself to a points distributor, I get it - but lets be reasonable here, we are not Barbarians, LOL) ... well I would love to test this thing, but we got a gaping hole in our transmission where the speedo drive used to be, remember we is still waiting on the new 43T driven gear and some seals to stop that fluid leak |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 1,181
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Re: Restoring Rusty
Just as refresher for the Gregski ..
16* is your base timing You will have mechanical timing which is the weights and springs which you need to add up to 32*. So your distributor weights/spring combo should yield 32* at 2500-3000rpm After that you then have your vacuum advance timing which should yield around 55* of timing when your driving. If you are within these realms the truck should run pretty good. Last note how much up and down play does that distributor have? If you buy a shim kit you can reduce this for a more stable distributor. |
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#12 | |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
Quote:
It appears that Initial Timing (what you call Base Timing) always includes some Mechanical Timining aka advance. In my case my original Mechanical Advance Curve starts at around 800 RPM, so if my idle RPM is 850 I am already relying on mechanical advance in the initial 16*. This could explain why in my original configuration 16 Initial plus 24 Mechanical = 32* instead of 40* (that's because the initial 16 already has some of the 24 mechanical in it) hope I didn't just confuse the hiebie jibies out of somebody If you look at the curve for the new weights, (pic above in the thread) it starts even earlier at 600 RPM, so for sure at 850 RPM idle we are using the mechanical advance. Now what muddies the waters a bit is crappy aftermarket inaccurate parts. Which I blame for 10 initial plus 8 mechanical = 18 (which really shows that their curve does not start at 600 RPM, lol) Now looking at the GM HEI distributor part number 93440806 which I will be purchasing tomorrow (aka Pay Day) it's Mechanical Advance curve don't start till 1600 RPM - so we shall see how that all adds up Last edited by Gregski; 05-31-2016 at 12:02 PM. |
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#13 | |
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Location: Calgary, AB
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Re: Restoring Rusty
Quote:
Depending on your cam shaft you may want your advance to start early or a bit later so find out your cam profile and where the lowest point of torque is made. |
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#14 |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
Advance can be adversely affected by one more setting that's usually ignored...
What's the end play on the distributor gear. http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/1257140/Measuring HEI gear end play. It should be 0.010" +0.004" - 0.000" but most are set up way too loose. Every 0.0128" is 1° of advance as the gear lifts so the closer you can get to 0.010" the better. It's cheap and easy to fix...
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. |
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#15 | |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
Quote:
I also checked my old original OEM points distributor and it has about the same at .062 keep in mind a gasket will take up some of that space, I think at least half Last edited by Gregski; 06-01-2016 at 02:46 AM. |
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#16 | |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
Quote:
There's no gasket there just shims and an odd spacer. At .062 you'll need three of the five shims in the Moroso kit... 2x .020 & 1x .010 should get you .012 clearance or even .011... 1° timing float isn't bad at all. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mo...FYomhgodmgEDkQ The gasket or spacers between the intake manifold and the distributor housing will fix the distributor bottoming on the oil pump drive or block if that's an issue.
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. Last edited by hatzie; 06-01-2016 at 11:39 AM. |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Bloomington Indiana
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Re: Restoring Rusty
To answer some earlier questions. I am running 16-17 base timing. That is, timing without the vacuum advance hooked up and with the idle slowed to about 600 rpm.
The GM HEI adds 20* mechanical advance, so I am running 36-37 degrees total timing. The AR23 vacuum advance adds another 15* (spec is 7.5*, which is camshaft degrees), to make 51* all in. 51* is what the advance is at cruise, 2500+ rpm, with the throttle plate mostly closed (not accelerating), so the mechanical and vacuum advance are both in. I have seen 52* given as an absolute maximum for cruise "all in" timing. Check this: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=689321
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Rich Weyand 1978 K10 RCSB DD. |
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#18 | |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
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#19 |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
Not sure. I know it was messed with a bit before I got it. I know it is 20* all in, and I also know it doesn't come in below 800 and is all in by about 2500. They had the correct (AR23) vacuum advance can on it, which is not stock, so I assumed they played with the mechanical as well and I just left it alone.
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Rich Weyand 1978 K10 RCSB DD. |
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#20 |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
picked up some MasterPro RAMCOA rubber bushings for my anti sway bar from O'Reillys. They were only $8.00 bucks a pair, and I must say I am rather impressed and excited to give them a go, they are made in the USA and seem pretty nice
not sure why one pair came in a bigger box (dated 2012) than the other pair (dated 2016), they are identical I have not favored the eurothane bushings everyone seems to talk about in the past, in my opinion rubber bushings are designed to cushion the situation and those polyeurothane things are essentially spacers and just make things rigid, sorta defeats the purpose in my mind I looked at the MOOG ones but for some odd reason their 1-1/16 ones only came in BLUE green truck and blue bushings, come on man! that would totally cramp my style, how was we going to go fishin' lookin' like that |
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#21 |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
a little stare and compare of the old ones and the new
I can't wait to try these, I don't think I ever had an anti sway bar before, it must be good for at least 20 horse power, ha ha |
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#22 |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
i gotta tell ya, I paid less ($3.61) for all the 3/8ths Grade 8 nuts and bolts on the left at Blue Collar Supply than I did for the twelve locking washers on the right at ACE Hardware
this is for the anti sway bar, I usually don't like using the gold stuff on my vehicles but since this aint going to live in the engine bay I think it beats cleaning those old bolts by the way do any of youz know if the cad plated "gold" bolts are better than stainless in terms of rust resistance? |
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#23 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Bloomington Indiana
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Re: Restoring Rusty
Quote:
Grade 8 hardware has 50% more tensile strength than stainless steel hardware. Grade 5 hardware has 20% more tensile strength than stainless steel hardware. No comparison. Stainless steel hardware sounds good at first blush, but you probably don't want to go there.
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Rich Weyand 1978 K10 RCSB DD. |
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#24 | |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
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#25 | |
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Re: Restoring Rusty
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