Restoring Rusty

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by buffydores

Just finished reading the whole thing. So glad it's just a gasket. You've done such wonderful work. I can't wait for my kids to get a little older to give me some more time to work on my stuff.

buy them an iPad and you'll have all the time in the world!!!

[Gregski]

so lets get you updated Greggie style

hello old friend

[Gregski]

the goal for today was to replace the headers with manifolds (or at least on the problem side) and although we thought we found the smoking gun (pun?) we did not want to change horses midstream sorta speak

so first we had to knock the ugly off that log

7 minutes with the death wheel and she was naked, and I'll be lying to you all if I didn't tell you that I considered grinding her nice and smooth for a minute, but then I went and got a beer instead

[Gregski]

although I went a lookin' for somethin' fancier than these trusty ol three piece Felpro gaskets I didn't find nothing better, and they've been good to me in the past

[Gregski]

On in 90 Seconds

I kid you not brothers and sisters, manifolds are sooooo easy to work with, but you already know that, so I must admit: headers are a young mens' sport.

[Gregski]

quit drawing this out, did going back to manifolds get rid of your engine ticking sound or not?

Hewk yeah it did, NMFT! No More Frustrating Ticking

[Gregski]

so there was no more ticking sound but the truck sure did sound funny with headers and a Flowmaster on one side and an exhaust manifold and a Turbo muffler on the other, there sure is a difference in sound between the two sides that's fer sure, and I won't tell you I may could have liked the sound on the manifold side, since I must justify my header expenditure, ha ha

so back to the parts house I went looking for some crusher gaskets, only to come away with these beauties that set me back $35 bones

how in the world they is reusable I'll never know

so did I put them on? Um no!

wait what?

I wanted to put them on, but those Felpro manifold gaskets were stuck to the enjin block and I didn't feel like scraping brand new gaskits off, then and there, so I said what the hewk lets give them a go with these them headers, and guess what they worked beautifully, SNMFT - Still No More Frustrating Ticking

so overall it was a good day, I fixed my truck, and my countrymen beat North Ireland in an Euro Cup 2016 match, what? you don't pretend to be a soccer fan every 4 years weather you need to or not?

[Gregski]

Wait a minute...

Houston... we have a problem!

The engine runs so smooth now I can hear the PCV valve ratlin'!!!

ha ha ha, no for real

[79sierra]

Good job, I bet you're exhausted!

[KQQL IT]

Looks like a gasket problem, not a header problem.
Round port gaskets may have corrected that leak.

[rich weyand]

It's amazing how much an exhaust leak sounds like mechanical ticking.

Wonder if there is a way to record the sound with a smartphone, then analyze the sound file to see if it is an exhaust leak or a mechanical ticking.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by 79sierra

Good job, I bet you're exhausted!

lol

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by rich weyand

It's amazing how much an exhaust leak sounds like mechanical ticking.

yep, it had me completely fooled, it literally sounded like someone tapping a flat screwdriver against the oil pan, it was stick on tin in my ears for sure

Originally Posted by rich weyand

Wonder if there is a way to record the sound with a smartphone, then analyze the sound file to see if it is an exhaust leak or a mechanical ticking.

may take a bit more fancier microphone than what's offered in the iPhone, but what they may be able to do is correlate the ticking to the pulse of the exhaust, though that's what had me thinking pistons, I don't know lesson learned is check the zero cost stuff first, I didn't I went after the distributor, I went after the fuel pump, well in my defense I did adjust the valves that was free, I did shim the starter and that was free, but than I offset those smart moves with 2 needless oil changes with the snake oil additives, but in the end Education Costs and I don't mind paying, Bernie aint the president yet, ha ha, I kid, I kid

thank you all for your help and not giving up on Rusty

[enaberif]

FYI... Don't let the PCV valve rattle you. Rich may have a better idea but the second I through my cam into my truck I could always hear a slight rattle from it.

Different vacuum levels make it rattle and there are different valves you could try but I never bothered.

[rusty76]

Finally.

[68Timber]

Originally Posted by KQQL IT

Looks like a gasket problem, not a header problem.
Round port gaskets may have corrected that leak.

I think you're right, looks like there was almost no seal in two other places, at 2 o'clock on #4 and 5 o'clock on #6. Like maybe the gasket was shifted rearward? IDK but glad you figured it out.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by 68Timber

I think you're right, looks like there was almost no seal in two other places, at 2 o'clock on #4 and 5 o'clock on #6. Like maybe the gasket was shifted rearward? IDK but glad you figured it out.

very interesting observation, this just reminds us to lay the gaskets over the headers before you put them on and take a looksie how well they overlap and fit the holes, also I want to point out how important it be to clean your parts, imagine how hard it would be to see the fresh black smut on my headers if I left them rusty and dirty, I would not be able to tell where the leaks were, just saying my clean freaks, keep it clean

[Gregski]

~ P A R T S ~

whoa, wait what? Seriously, you sure don't waste any time Greg

but whacha gone out and git a new distributor for?

well I got it on the account of the engine ticking noise, I thought it be comin' from that cheap Proform distributor I gone out and got last year

(now in all fairness Proform makes a $100 HEI distributor and a $150 HEI distributor, and you can guess which one I bought, the cheaper one)

now this here is a genuine GM Chevrolet Performance High Fidelity awesome possume High Energy Ignition

part number: nine three four four zero eight zero six

[Gregski]

one thing I is a learned is that cheap parts seldom come with Specs where as good parts come with all sorts of words and numbers, case in point:

Mechanical Advance: - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vacuum Advance:

RPM - - - - - Advance - - - - - - - - - - Vacuum (in. Hg) - - - - - Advance

1100 - - - - - - 00.0º - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 3.00” - - - - - - - - - - 00.0º
1600 - - - - - - 12.0° - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 7.50” - - - - - - - - - - 20.0º
2400 - - - - - - 16.0º
4600 - - - - - - 22.0º

[Gregski]

what do you mean you don't rip apart your brand new parts when you acquire them Lonnie Earl?

note the numbers on the weights, the center plate, and the vacuum advance

I have no idear what they mean, but I'm sure glad they is there, ha ha

[SkinnyG]

Originally Posted by rich weyand

Wonder if there is a way to record the sound with a smartphone, then analyze the sound file to see if it is an exhaust leak or a mechanical ticking.

What if you hooked your timing light to the offending cylinder - would you be able to detect a time difference between combustion and exhaust?

600rpm idle. Rotates 10 times per second. Fires 5 times per second.....

Hmmmmm.....

[rich weyand]

Originally Posted by Gregski

one thing I is a learned is that cheap parts seldom come with Specs where as good parts come with all sorts of words and numbers, case in point:

Mechanical Advance: - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vacuum Advance:

RPM - - - - - Advance - - - - - - - - - - Vacuum (in. Hg) - - - - - Advance

1100 - - - - - - 00.0º - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 3.00” - - - - - - - - - - 00.0º
1600 - - - - - - 12.0° - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 7.50” - - - - - - - - - - 20.0º
2400 - - - - - - 16.0º
4600 - - - - - - 22.0º

Look at that advance can for a minute. "691 20" is GM part number 1973691, off the 81-82 Corvette, 79-82 Camaro, and 79 Firebird. That is, it's a late pollution-era vac advance canister.

20* of vac advance. That's crankshaft degrees. So 10 camshaft degrees at 7.5", starting from 0* at 3". That's a lot of vac advance at pretty low vacuum for what you got there in a non-pollution-equipped engine. What was your idle vacuum again?

My concern is that without a very conservative (pollution-era) base timing in the 4* BTDC range, you are going to ping like crazy, because you will need to get into a LOT of pedal to get out of vacuum advance.

Better fit for what you are running is probably the AR23 can: 7.5 camshaft degrees at 11.5", starting from 0* at 6".

OK, so, timing. You want 36* total, base+mech. With 22* (at 4600!), you want 14* base timing. But 36* total plus 20* vacuum advance gives 56* at cruise with it all in. You want to be around 52* with it all in, not more. So you need to back off to about 10* base timing so as not to go over 52* at cruise. And I am worried with as low a vacuum as that can pulls in, you'll ping even at that.

Switch to an AR23, and 36* total plus 15* vacuum gives 51*, so you're good with a 14* base timing. Which will give you more goose when you get on it. And no pinging.

The AR23 can be hard to find, and so can the Echlin VC1853 equivalent. Here are the other listed equivalents:

AIRTEX 4V1054
CARQUEST 57-7563
WELLS DV1853
GM 19138053
GM 1973482
ACDelco D1321A

[Gregski]

350HO Deluxe Engine (19210008) Specifications

Specifications Part Number 12487544


Set spark timing at 32º before top dead center (BTDC) at 4000 RPM with the vacuum advance line to the distributor disconnected and plugged. This setting will produce 32º of total advance at wide open throttle (WOT). The HEI vacuum advance canister should remain disconnected. This engine is designed to operate using only the internal centrifugal advance to achieve the correct timing curve.

[rusty76]

I'm glad you fellas understand all this. I'm still scratching my head. Lol

[Jake Wade]

You want to use vacuum advance, just not that much. Limit the travel with a stop plate. I trim down old feeler gauges and spot weld them with a mig.

Around .120 pin travel usually equates to about 12º