Project' 69 c10 aka sin.

[Palf70Step]

You don't have a timing chain on the 230 ( I forgot) It is direct gear on cam & crank. www.RockAuto.com has them. Didn't look anywhere else for the 230. You may just have jumped a tooth on the gears, but in any case you'll probably need both gears.


You may find a 230/250 available cheap from someone wanting to go V8.

[threeonthetree]

so there is no way the timing could be off that much.
or do these gears go bad?

[Palf70Step]

Yes the gears go bad. It could have easily slipped a couple teeth.

You sure the distributor is in the right spot?

[threeonthetree]

yeah.
we've checked numerous times
here is how we were setting our timing.


line up the harmonic balancer to 0, TDC on the compression stroke of number one

then lining the cap up where the rotor landed with the number one wire.

so that would be where number one should be firing.
then put the cap back turn it over

engine runs rough.
checked it with the timing light and its about 2 inches off.
retarded about 2 inches.

[threeonthetree]

but could the motor timed wrong..
like when we line up the marks and the rotor is pointing to number 4 plug wire exhaust stroke for number 1.. and in the book it says to turn it over a full 360 to get the rotor to line up with number 1 compression stroke.

could that number 4 place be the right spot for number 1 compression stroke

like could the compression stroke and exhaust stroke be mixed up..

might try turning number 1 to 4 and see..

thanks for your help palf70step

[threeonthetree]

well we may have over looked somthing.
the way the plug wires are set up may be wrong not matching the correct firing order.
were gonna double check that and make sure it is right
and if things changed re tighten each valve according to spec.

hopefully this is the problem

[oldblue1968chevy]

why dontcha build the 350 and put your 250 in the car

i know how ya feel, put a new pushrod in our old car, started it up and it bent the new pushrod, so it got rolled back in the shop LOL keep at it you'll have it someday

[threeonthetree]

idk i dont have the funds for a rebuild.

still having lots of problems with the damn timing.

[threeonthetree]

i mean i never heard this motor run before buying the car
i have no idea the year besides 68-84
and i have no idea how it got in the car
plus i dont know who was effing with it before
this is getting frustrating .. where working in the dark

if anybody can tell me if im setting my timing correct. please do

or if anybody can tell me how to set the initial timing that would be great!!!

[292farmer]

hope this helps, 1st pic from haynes manual, 2nd & 3rd go together from chevy service manual i banged my hands up working so not typing much sorry.

[threeonthetree]

thanks 292 ill try and read all that. and understand it.


firing order for a six is
153624

Correct?

and when the distributor goes around it sparks each wire in the same order right?

[292farmer]

yes that is the firing order my manual shows, and yes that's how the distributor fires each one in a row. if u get confused just ask ill do my best to answer, were u looking for the #1 step to the haynes manual? all it says is if distributor has been removed or repaired or octane changed then u need to check/retime the motor, then goes to num 2

[292farmer]

btw, maybe u already thought of this, if so sorry, but did u drain old fuel out yet and/or add new? if your just using old fuel to set timimg, the fuel may not be burning right (bad fuel?) making it seem like its bad timing? idk if thats possible but thought id throw it out their. i'll be away from a computer in a bit im going to work on my baja bug so sorry if i miss any questions. good luck!!

[threeonthetree]

alright thanks.

well i think I'm just gonna pull the distributor off and start over to make sure i have all my wires going to the right plugs and then find TDC on the compression stroke for number one.
then set my dizzy in there nice so that number one, is contacting the rotor.

i mean ive set the timing on a v8 before idk why this is being so difficult. haha. oh well ill get it.

edit if you look in some of our pics. we have small gas tank that is in the engine compartment with clean fresh gas!

[threeonthetree]

thanks for the good info on tuning the valves


Ive been screwing with this thing all day. and where still not gettting it to fire.
it will back fire out the carb.. and the exhaust but not everytime just every so offend. really loud to! like a gun shot.

we've se the timing a few diffrent ways and evey time it comes close to the last spot for number one. with in a few deggrees. but the engine doesnt seem to fire.

we know we have fuel and spark..

how noticable should the compression stroke be when you put your finger over the plug whole. cause i cant feel much... nor was i able to set it as described.

but the motor was running the other day..
idk what is wrong
i honestly dont know what to do.....
i need some help

[samwise68]

Alright man, settle on down. It's just a machine.

These motors have been through a lot, especially when you consider the car is almost 50 years old. There's gonna be some hiccups and bumps along the way - thats no reason to start bummin' about it and lose faith. If we wanted dead reliable cars that didn't need any work, we'd buy new ones! Yeah, riiiiggghhhtttt.

The 230 has a timing gear, no chaim. If it's stock, it probably has a fiber gear. This makes it alot quieter when it runs, but can shear off at any time as it get's older and voila - it doesn't want to run. Check that out. Just pull the front cover, and see if the gears are still there, and verify if the marks line up.

After that, verify your timing. Remember the marks on the harmonic balancer might not be right - that rubber ring can let the outside slip as time goes on.

And following all of that, take the valve cover off and crank it over, checking for a flat lop on the camshaft. If you've got air, fuel, and spark, you just need to get them in the right order.

Keep at it. If things don't work out, walk (or hobble) away, do some research and come back to it later. Get yourself a Haynes, Chilton, or Motor manual with this series motor in it. It'll help loads with verifying the specs on the motor.

Best of luck mate, and keep us posted.

-Sam.

[292farmer]

believe compression is supposed to be around 130 psi so id imagine u could feel it, if u lived closer id love to help, what type of choke is it? is it heat coil off the exhaust manifold? if so is it binding after u put the head back on?
did u put new points in? if so how did u gap them and how much gap? i did gap mine wrong once hated to idle, also is the carb primed? i had a 350 that i had to poor gas down the carb to fire it up, then hold the throttle to the floor, had to do that 2-3 times before it ran. might be trying to prime itself..maybe you've thought of that and done it idk i'm just trying to help

[threeonthetree]

yeah buy that new stuff right...
hah yeah but i mean we had her running and now we've gotten further away... haha

ill give the timing gear a check before the sun goes down..

the covers off and all the valves seem to me moving and doing what they should when they should.
idk what you mean by checking the flat lope... like when both valves are up?

ill hobble my way out there.. we have several manuals and have been reading chapters all day(Haynes and a chilton truck manuals but still good info) .. my old man.. . he's older than the car has run out of options... ha

i really dont know what to do. ill pull that font timing cover off and see.

now when and if those marks line up on the timing gear that should be TDC on the number one piston right?
then align everything based on that.

[threeonthetree]

292 im not sure about the choke
but the carb is primed,... engine will flood.

points seem in check .. my old man knows more about it then i do.

[threeonthetree]

well im sure my timing is dead on.
i spent another day working on the land yacht. still wont even pop. i got a few back fires but nothing really
i took all the plugs out and i'm letting the engine air out. and cleaning all of the plugs up.
i got a compression test kit and a harmonic balancer puller so i can check the timing gear. am i gonna have to drop the oil pan like on a 350?

also got new points.

well i hope i can get it to fire tomorrow

idk any help is appreciated im gonna go back and read my post on this car from the start and see if that helps at all.

[oldblue1968chevy]

dude your working your butt off! especially for having a cast on your leg!!

take some time and watch tv and heal up! I know the trucks are fun, I meant cars. Pat on the back buddy. lol'd at the land yacht

[threeonthetree]

haha i know man
i need to take some time off of this thing.. its not even my car. but theirs not much else i can do... well the gf might come over one of these days. I wish there was someone in town who was a gear head and could give me a hand..

thanks man.
you cant keep me down,, for long.

[292farmer]

ok i read back a couple pages to see if i could find anything to help, the only thing i noticed on page 16 u said u got it running then next post said that u installed the rocker studs, did u install the studs before or after getting it running the first time? im assuming before, if after maybe a rocker worked loose and isnt working causing a cylinder or two to not work? not enough to run? or something happened during that? (i dont know what and doubt it) idk that seems very far fetched but im trying to come up with something to help. also what octane are u using? i doubt it matters but maybe a higher or lower octane? im guessing your using 87? idk what else to suggest, maybe check if wires on points and wires on coil are tight? maybe coil went bad since last u checked spark? see if idle mixture screws are good try tuning them? maybe idle is too low(bumped when head pulled off?) so wont start and giving it gas floods it? or too high and flooding, maybe when the intake was tilted to do head the float stuck either up or down? just trying to throw ideas out their not trying to send u on a goose chase sorry...

[threeonthetree]

all great suggestions. i guess i could look at the carb.
i have set and reset the rockers idk how many times. there all in check tho.
87 octane higher might help idk. i think im gonna give the carb a look. it seems like the engine floods pretty east.


well we had it running then where trying to set the timing better. so i got the book out and went off the TDC to set the timing and it all went down hill from there.
i wish i wouldn't have screwed with the thing well it was going

i pulled the distrubtor and the gears are all good.

another thing. the motor doesnt want to turn very easy.. like the starter is working pretty hard. and it wasn't always like that till it backfired pretty bad. something sounds like its gnawing idk ifs just the starter or what.

people keep saying the choke but theres no choke on the manifold and just taht weird set up someone welded up in some of the pics.

spark seems good. i even put a diffent coil on and all the wires on the cap are good. cap has been pulled and cleaned. all wires where checked. has new plugs. and now new points.

Could it be the points. my old man has always been setting them. how is it done?

idk how much more time i wanna put into this thing. im about ready to park it and say good as done. and get something done on my chevy.

Like a rock was on the radio and i thought maybe that would be just the luck i needed but still nothing... ive been reading up and found some more cases like this.

so tomorrow im gonna do a compression test.. if i don't have any or very little that means pistons are bad.. or the valves aren't sealing proper. but idk how the lower end could be junk it was running....

[292farmer]

motor maybe not cranking fast enough to start? starter going bad or discharged battery?