'57 Ford Custom 300 Tudor Sedan

[knomadd]

Originally Posted by Vic1947

Man, do I ever hate leaks! I try to achieve a balance between the need to seal up an engine and the possibility I may have to tear it down again in the future. I'm already thinking hydraulic roller cam this winter when I yank it to fix the rear main seal and swap in a lower psi oil pump. Kill all the birds with one stone.

I like how you think. I've been thinking along the same lines for a few months now for my GTO. Two classics that constantly need (or I want) something aren't making that easy. My rear main is leaking, as is my oil pan. It runs great now, so I'm not inclined to pull it. But, I want a more aggressive cam and I'd like to go roller... but if I'm going to do it, I want aluminum heads.... I could keep going, but you get the idea.

The car looks great. I'm sure you'll get the leak fixed... one way or the other.

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by Vic1947

Thanks Duane, good suggestion. I think I'll replace the gasket just to be sure. It's a Fel-Pro with a little RTV smeared on both sides, but you never know. It could also be bleeding thru the threads of the bolt on the one side. I'm using it as a ground and it has a serrated washer. It's amazing how fluids with virtually zero pressure can leak past threads you'd swear are good and tight.

You can't see it very well in the photo, but there's also a 3/8 pipe plug in that same area that I'm pretty sure goes into the oil passage. I took it out this morning, cleaned the threads good, wrapped it with teflon tape and reinstalled it snugly. We'll see if any (or all) of these fixes make a difference. Since the oil is pooling on top of that corner, I'm less inclined to think the pan gasket has anything to do with it. But there's a lot of turbulence in the area and after a long trip, there will be tiny droplets of oil along the side of the pan clear back to the rack. The next day, the floor has several small spots of oil where it has collected above and formed drips.

Man, do I ever hate leaks! I try to achieve a balance between the need to seal up an engine and the possibility I may have to tear it down again in the future. I'm already thinking hydraulic roller cam this winter when I yank it to fix the rear main seal and swap in a lower psi oil pump. Kill all the birds with one stone.

I know kinda silly idea but if you had a Go Pro video camara that you could mount to the body and point it on the area.....................

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

... if you had a Go Pro video camara that you could mount to the body and point it on the area...

Fortunately, no need to setup surveillance, Mike. Replacing the gasket (thanks, Duane!), sealing the bolt threads and the nearby pipe plug fixed the leak. Now all that's left are the two small leaks that I can't get at. Couple of half sheets of Pig Mat will handle them till winter.

As you can see from the photos, I have some other issues to deal with at the moment. Front end has been making some odd noises so I took the car to NKC Brake yesterday morning to have the front end realigned (which I hadn't done since replacing the rack and pinion.) They were unable to turn the wheels by hand on the turntable to do a caster sweep, so they sent me home to fix whatever was binding in the steering. Turns out both upper ball joints had rusted from sitting so long without grease. The lowers were in much better shape and a few pumps of green grease freed them up like new. The uppers, however, couldn't be saved. I ordered two new ones along with a set of upper control arm bushings. They, like the ball joints, were new many years ago, but have deteriorated while in storage. You can see how they have cracked and extruded around the sleeves. With everything apart, I'm greasing all the places I can think of that might be squeaking. Maybe it will help for at least a little while.

We went to one last cruise in last night before the big teardown. On the way, the voltmeter read around 11VDC while idling at the stoplights. The other day, I tightened the V-belt a little bit even though there was no sign it was slipping. Didn't help a bit. So this afternoon, I ordered a new alternator from Quality Power. They have one that puts out 120 amps at idle and 150 at cruise rpm. Should be more than enough for my needs. It looks sorta like a Japanese unit stuffed into a custom billet housing with the same mounting dimensions as a 10si. Hopefully it will put an end to my low voltage blues.

[Low Elco]

Wow, congrats!

[Xeen]

As usual Vic you have everything under control.
#Winning!

[knomadd]

Glad at least one leak was a simple fix. Like Brian said, looks like you've got it all under control.

[Xeen]

Hey Vic it's been almost 3 weeks since your last update, I'm curious how the improvements are progressing.

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by Xeen

Hey Vic it's been almost 3 weeks since your last update, I'm curious how the improvements are progressing.

Two steps forward, one back, Brian. Seems like I've had to send nearly everything back for one reason or another. The alternator arrived last week and the rear post would not clear the cylinder head, so I had to exchange it for a side post version. Luckily, the guy mentioned they could clock the side post where it would work best for me, so I sent them a diagram of what I needed and when it arrived today, it was spot on. Got it partially installed but still waiting on brackets to arrive from powder coating. It seems like serpentine belts are taking over and the selection of v-belts gets smaller all the time. I'm using 7/16" belts where 3/8" are the correct size. Causes the belt to ride higher in the groove which can lead to it slipping. But increasing the belt tension overloads the bearings. Summit has a selection of 3/8" belts, but I couldn't find a good quality one in the size I need. May have to settle for their generic brand.

The brake booster arrived from Hydratech and I had to send it back also. The pushrod that fits in the m/c piston cavity was .050" too long, so it preloaded the m/c when you bolted it up. The connecting rod that links the brake pedal to the rear of the booster was 1" too long. And the bolt pattern for the adapter plate that bolts the unit to the firewall was too wide by about .075". I could have fixed it in the mill, however it was held on by a special fastener shaped like a four leaf clover. After discussing it with them, I boxed it up and returned it, including pictures marked with the dimensions I needed. No telling when I'll get it back. It was over four weeks to get it in the first place, so it may take that long again for the repairs.

Meanwhile, I reconfigured the p/s pump can for two -6AN return fittings and capped off the original return tube. I'm also refinishing the valve covers. The stainless trim pieces kept moving around when the engine got hot, so I procured some tiny eyeglass screws to stop all that. Also, I wanted to switch sides to shorten up the PCV valve tubing which meant the designs/lettering were all backwards... resulting in a repaint. Last but not least, here's a shot of the newest addition to the family. Hemi Challenger with the R/T Shaker package. Getting it has helped take my mind off all the Ford screw ups.

[sduckworth13]

Wow! That is a nice car Vic!

[Vic1947]

Thx, Scott. If you ever doubted I was a car 'ho", this is proof positive. We are officially decked out with GM, FoMoCo, and Mopar hardware.

[sduckworth13]

Originally Posted by Vic1947

Thx, Scott. If you ever doubted I was a car 'ho", this is proof positive. We are officially decked out with GM, FoMoCo, and Mopar hardware.

Lol.

[Elliot949]

Originally Posted by Vic1947

Thx, Scott. If you ever doubted I was a car 'ho", this is proof positive. We are officially decked out with GM, FoMoCo, and Mopar hardware.

Hey Vic... I am only partially a car Ho... I have 2 Fords and 2 Chevy's... LOL

[Xeen]

I'm sorry to hear the ford is giving you so much grief.
Nice Challenger Vic, how much horsepower does that Hemi make?

[knomadd]

Sorry to hear about all the trouble with parts Vic, but it sounds like you're getting it all taken care of. Hopefully the guys at Hyrdatech will get you taken care of, and not take forever doing it.

Nice Challenger too! I think I'm a "car ho" too. I have two Pontiac's and a Chevy, plus my wife's Ford. Granted, two of them are daily drivers, from the 2000's, but we still have 4 cars for two people (wife says 3 are mine and one is hers).

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by Xeen

I'm sorry to hear the ford is giving you so much grief.
Nice Challenger Vic, how much horsepower does that Hemi make?

Hey Brian, it's the small Hemi... puts out about 375 I believe. Our very first new car was a '69 R/T Charger with the 375 HP 440. This new one feels about as strong with a lot less cubes and much better manners.

Originally Posted by Elliot949

Hey Vic... I am only partially a car Ho... I have 2 Fords and 2 Chevy's... LOL

Yep, Car Ho's R Us!

Originally Posted by knomadd

Sorry to hear about all the trouble with parts Vic, but it sounds like you're getting it all taken care of. Hopefully the guys at Hyrdatech will get you taken care of, and not take forever doing it.

Nice Challenger too! I think I'm a "car ho" too. I have two Pontiac's and a Chevy, plus my wife's Ford. Granted, two of them are daily drivers, from the 2000's, but we still have 4 cars for two people (wife says 3 are mine and one is hers).

Thanks, Duane, I'm sure the guys at Hydratech will get it sorted out. From talking to them, it sounds like they're very busy so hopefully they can work this re-do into their schedule. Nice folks, though.
I need to stop by next time we're in Houston and check out your hotrods.

[Vic1947]

We had to make a trip outta town today, but when we returned the box from Hydratech was sitting on the front porch. After weeks of delays and excuses I may now be able to move forward. I took some preliminary measurements after removing it from the carton and it should now bolt up correctly. A couple of weeks ago they complained about having to alter the pushrod that activates the m/c, so to remove that from the whine list, I went ahead and purchased one from them. That way if it didn't fit, it would be 100% on them.

For those keeping track, I ordered this unit on July 8th. It took two and a half months to finally get something that will at least bolt to the firewall. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will actually work. Last Tuesday when I called, I probably burned the last bridge between me and them, so if it doesn't work, I've pissed away over $1000. Their stuff may be jam up, but their business model sucks. When we lived in TX, they had a saying... "Don't piss on my boots and tell me it's raining." That about sums up my experience. YMMV

Anyway, I will try to get back on track and post some progress reports. The front steering rebuild is done, the new alternator is on, the valve covers are 95% done with only the counterbores for the eyeglass screws left to do and as soon as the brake unit is in and plumbed, I can get it back to NKC Brake for the alignment. Hope to have it done before the snow flies.

[knomadd]

Well that's very disappointing about their customer service. What a shame. Hopefully it works this time.

[jlsanborn]

Somehow I've missed a few updates here, like my sub got broken? That MC setup looks slick Vic and I'm sure with that much invested you'll get it working. The whole car is super sexy and your thread photos are like a magazine layout. Congrats on the new whip too!

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by jlsanborn

Somehow I've missed a few updates here, like my sub got broken? That MC setup looks slick Vic and I'm sure with that much invested you'll get it working. The whole car is super sexy and your thread photos are like a magazine layout. Congrats on the new whip too!

Thanks, John. I always figure a picture is worth a thousand words.

Saturday afternoon, we went to the KCI Cruise out by the airport. They only have it once a year in the fall. It was a beautiful afternoon and there were a ton of cars there. We took the Challenger and had a great time... even though it attracts a lot less attention than the '57.

Earlier in the day, I finally got the end mill I needed to counter bore the stainless trim for the eyeglass screws. The c/b lets the screw head sit down in the recess so it doesn't snag when you wipe it down with a cloth. I used the same Avery double sided adhesive as before to attach the trim. But with three screws per side, it shouldn't move when the engine gets hot. At least that's what I hope. I used a little dab of JB Weld on the backside of the screws to seal and retain them. You barely notice the screws at all. The valve covers switched sides, so the PCV now sits in the rear, closer to the fitting in the back of the carb. I'll have to reroute the vacuum line but that's easy.

[jlsanborn]

Details!!

[Low Elco]

HOt stuff! Glad it got straightened out.

[Xeen]

I'm pulling for you Vic, hopefully it bolts right up and works as intended.
I will be watching for the update where you claim victory!

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by knomadd

Well that's very disappointing about their customer service. What a shame. Hopefully it works this time.

Originally Posted by Low Elco

HOt stuff! Glad it got straightened out.

Originally Posted by Xeen

I'm pulling for you Vic, hopefully it bolts right up and works as intended.
I will be watching for the update where you claim victory!

Thanks, guys! I spent some time working on routing the lines today when not sweating in the yard. Removed a tree to save myself $100, all the while mumbling... car parts, car parts, car parts!

The new bolt pattern for the machined firewall flange is now correct so I bolted it up to mock up the lines. When I tried to thread in the supplied hose fitting from H-T, I noticed the threads seemed to get tight after a couple of rounds but long before the inverted flare tubing made contact. So I removed the unit and put it on the bench for further investigation. Turns out, they did what you see a lot with metric power steering units. In the early 80's the factory switched from 5/8-18 inverted flare fittings to M16x1.5 o-ring fittings. The two threads are very similar, so crafty car guys came up with the little brass inserts that fit in the o-ring bore and convert the metric back to SAE. Except that the two threads are not an exact match. What happens is that after a couple of rounds, the dissimilar thread pitches start to bind up. Most guys will dial up the grunt and force the two threads to get along, but you know me.

As luck would have it, I happened to have a M16x1.5 to -6AN adapter in my spare fittings box, so I removed the brass insert and re-plumbed the end of the Teflon line with a 90 degree -6AN fitting. Then threw the 5/8-18 inverted flare fitting into the spare parts box. I figured something might be up because all the threads on the booster were oddball. Where the m/c bolts to the booster, it appears to have bizarre M11x1.75 LH threads. They might possibly be 7/16-14 LH, but regardless, neither bolt is to be found from any of my sources. The H-T solution was to run a 3/8 socket cap screw thru the threaded hole and use a nut on the backside. Of course, the hole in the booster is larger than the pilot diameter on the flanged end of the m/c, so it slops all around. I'll sleeve it to center the m/c properly, but will probably use the redneck bolt fix since I don't have time to get studs made that will fit. We'd like to take the '57 to a show next weekend and the season is winding down quickly now.

[Elliot949]

Originally Posted by Vic1947

Thanks, guys! I spent some time working on routing the lines today when not sweating in the yard. Removed a tree to save myself $100, all the while mumbling... car parts, car parts, car parts!

The new bolt pattern for the machined firewall flange is now correct so I bolted it up to mock up the lines. When I tried to thread in the supplied hose fitting from H-T, I noticed the threads seemed to get tight after a couple of rounds but long before the inverted flare tubing made contact. So I removed the unit and put it on the bench for further investigation. Turns out, they did what you see a lot with metric power steering units. In the early 80's the factory switched from 5/8-18 inverted flare fittings to M16x1.5 o-ring fittings. The two threads are very similar, so crafty car guys came up with the little brass inserts that fit in the o-ring bore and convert the metric back to SAE. Except that the two threads are not an exact match. What happens is that after a couple of rounds, the dissimilar thread pitches start to bind up. Most guys will dial up the grunt and force the two threads to get along, but you know me.

As luck would have it, I happened to have a M16x1.5 to -6AN adapter in my spare fittings box, so I removed the brass insert and re-plumbed the end of the Teflon line with a 90 degree -6AN fitting. Then threw the 5/8-18 inverted flare fitting into the spare parts box. I figured something might be up because all the threads on the booster were oddball. Where the m/c bolts to the booster, it appears to have bizarre M11x1.75 LH threads. They might possibly be 7/16-14 LH, but regardless, neither bolt is to be found from any of my sources. The H-T solution was to run a 3/8 socket cap screw thru the threaded hole and use a nut on the backside. Of course, the hole in the booster is larger than the pilot diameter on the flanged end of the m/c, so it slops all around. I'll sleeve it to center the m/c properly, but will probably use the redneck bolt fix since I don't have time to get studs made that will fit. We'd like to take the '57 to a show next weekend and the season is winding down quickly now.

What show are you and Kathy looking at going too?...

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by Xeen

Now see I can just hear those guys at the shop when they were remanufacturing it, I am gonna screw this guy by using some obscure thread pattern that no one and I mean no one uses and he can't even get <enter evil machinist revenge laugh here> Mhmm.

Well in this case, I can't really blame Hydratech. This is how the boosters were originally manufactured. H-T just incorporates the adapter plates and pushrods for a specific application and maybe does a little "dress up" before sending them on the way. But whoever designed them with the weird threads in the first place needs to have their head examined.

Originally Posted by Elliot949

What show are you and Kathy looking at going too?...

It's the "Built to Perform" show in Lone Jack, MO on Saturday, October 3rd. We've never been to it, so I have no idea what the turnout will be like. Right now, the weatherman is a bit pessimistic, but we'll know more when it gets closer. Meanwhile, I need to get the plumbing done and the brakes bled so I can do a test drive. Had to order a few fittings from Jegs that won't be here until Wednesday, but if I get motivated I'll make it.