Starting 1966 Factory Short Bed Build, Bagged, 383 Stroker and Muncie M20 4-Speed

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by roll_the_dice

You and me both brother! In fact when I installed my OEM steering wheel with OEM bench seat, my stomach was touching the wheel (about 6 months ago)...I was annoyed...so in the last 6 months, I have lost 30+ pounds now my "gut" is 2" or more away from the wheel. I have gone from 255 to 221 (this morning). So I lost weight for my truck more than me or my family. LOL Oh the things we do for our trucks!

LOL well i currently have only me at home... not by choice, but ...anyways.. lol I will be honest, when i started the project was weighed in at 398lbs, most i have ever been! 6'1", two vertebrae in neck fused, one year later back surgery. This is where weight gain started.... not an excuse, just one reason, i was restricted and then just pure laziness by me. So currently i am at 325lbs and working it down. I want to be about 240 to 250lbs...

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by roll_the_dice

I saw someone build a roll cage for their truck recently...I will see if I can find it. I know they were going to race the truck, so not sure if it was removable like you want or stationary.

On a side note,I agree with your above post. It is your truck; enjoy it and build it to make you happy. I have said when I take my truck to shows, I know some people won't like it..and I am fine with that...I am thinking of having a suggestion bucket...that cost the person a minimum of $5 for the suggestion! I have built mine not as a show truck, but a truck to enjoy, drive, and use as a truck. My wife and I love our truck and that is the only ones that matter or gets a vote.

I appreciate any help you have.
I will be leaning on Scoti for some advice also.

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by WunTon

What an awful idea why would you ever put a roll cage in your truck it's going to look terrible! You're going to ruin your truck how could you do that!

Haha just playing! Coming from the off road world and putting more than one vehicle on it's roof I appreciate the desire for a cage and I think when done properly they add a nice touch to the overall look especially when in your case you will have power and no doubt a nice mean sounding exhaust to bring a bit of muscle truck character to your truck. I say screw the snowflakes that don't have anything nice to say and build your truck the way you want it just don't forget to post lots of pics and remember triangulation is the key to a good strong cage!

LOL I get you and thanks for the key ideas to remember. I will try to show you all my ideas. I am looking at a company that builds the cages professionally and are NHRA Approved.

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Is said partial roll-cage (roll bar technically) planned to be taller than the seat but under the rear window or full height/above rear window?

When you describe the 'down' bars from cab to bed, is your plan to keep them below the top of the front bed panel (out of sight) or in plain sight above the bed sides?

You mentioned using tubing couplers for the pass-through construction. What is your chassis anchoring plan for the tubes?

You are correct, roll bar, with angled down bars to the bed area. Please bare with me as i try to explain my idea. lol
So inside the cab behind the seats and tucked as close as possible to the rear corners of the cab down bars that will connect to the Frame, going through the cab floor. Somewhere near the floor, install heavy duty tubing connectors, they are like solid steel cut in half and then connect together by bolted connection, then the bar will go as high as possible to the roof then bend to connect to the other side, above the windshield if possible. Then in-between the two down tubes in the corner of cab, just below the ledge that is along the back of the cab have a cross bar that the harness could mount to and then look at cross bracing that bar down to the lower parts of the side bars, then if needed another crossbar above the back of the seats for bracing as needed to make the roll bar functional. Then up top on top cross bar, have another bar exist each side of the cab to the outside - Straight - then angle down to the bed area to a place that makes sense and connect to the frame. Some point in the these bars have those tubbing connectors so that i can remove the cab if needed in the future. Also have some cross bracing in these two angled bars to the bed.

Not sure if that helps or not, but please give me your feedback, anyone.

[88Stanger]

please excuse my drawing.... sad too i am a drafter by trade and i produce this... lol but it is quick and easy.... rough idea please give input though

[SCOTI]

Is your goal/desire to have this as a track 'legal' set-up or other?

I know you did standard cab mounting parts (isolators/bushings) & location mounts. For an effective bar/cage set-up, it will require rigid mounting @ all points.

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Is your goal/desire to have this as a track 'legal' set-up or other?

I know you did standard cab mounting parts (isolators/bushings) & location mounts. For an effective bar/cage set-up, it will require rigid mounting @ all points.

I understand that to have a track safe and ready truck i would need to do alot of changes, so no it is not for track running or racing. If anything maybe for a bit of support if needed in case of rollover, but not track running.

That make sense?

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Is your goal/desire to have this as a track 'legal' set-up or other?

I know you did standard cab mounting parts (isolators/bushings) & location mounts. For an effective bar/cage set-up, it will require rigid mounting @ all points.

This is the company i was looking at buying from.

http://autoweldchassis.com

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 88Stanger

I understand that to have a track safe and ready truck i would need to do alot of changes, so no it is not for track running or racing. If anything maybe for a bit of support if needed in case of rollover, but not track running.

That make sense?

The cab is going to want to flex vs. the frame w/the standard bushings. But you want to tie the rear portion 'fixed/solid' mounted to the frame. I don't see that working well. You're likely going to need to swap to solid cab mounts.

A roll-bar for roll-over protection (cab roof caving in) & harness anchors can be attached to plates welded to the floor & function in that described manor. If you want to pass bars through the cab wall, all anchor points need to match.

How dead-set are you on the 'pass-through' bars to the rear frame section?

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

The cab is going to want to flex vs. the frame w/the standard bushings. But you want to tie the rear portion 'fixed/solid' mounted to the frame. I don't see that working well. You're likely going to need to swap to solid cab mounts.

A roll-bar for roll-over protection (cab roof caving in) & harness anchors can be attached to plates welded to the floor & function in that described manor. If you want to pass bars through the cab wall, all anchor points need to match.

How dead-set are you on the 'pass-through' bars to the rear frame section?

Well i really like the look honestly. Not dead set on it though. I do not like the idea of solid cab mount, makes ride not so nice for casual driving. What if i did as i think you mean, attach the bar to the cab floor and then what about attaching the back arms to the bed frame vs the actual frame?

I think i understand what you are getting at though. Hmmm...

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

The cab is going to want to flex vs. the frame w/the standard bushings. But you want to tie the rear portion 'fixed/solid' mounted to the frame. I don't see that working well. You're likely going to need to swap to solid cab mounts.

A roll-bar for roll-over protection (cab roof caving in) & harness anchors can be attached to plates welded to the floor & function in that described manor. If you want to pass bars through the cab wall, all anchor points need to match.

How dead-set are you on the 'pass-through' bars to the rear frame section?

If i was to bag the rear section, what are you thinking?

[88Stanger]

I think i know what you are getting at Scoti. The bed is on bushings that will allow it to flex and move slightly independent of the frame, so anything attached to the frame will only move with the frame, so counter movements could cause damage. Damn, that could be bad. Even if i was to extend out to the bed, it is separated from the cab and can move independent of the cab also.... I think i am learning here.... So I think your idea is to just install a roll bar inside the cab, only attached to the cab, then the seatbelt shoulder straps could attach to that. I think this is what you are referring to.
Damn, great point.... so... maybe i ditch the whole idea of rollcage. I say this now also because that then interferers with my ideas for a boom box behind the seats in the area.... damn, i am learning all kinds of things today.... lol

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 88Stanger

Well i really like the look honestly. Not dead set on it though. I do not like the idea of solid cab mount, makes ride not so nice for casual driving. What if i did as i think you mean, attach the bar to the cab floor and then what about attaching the back arms to the bed frame vs the actual frame?

I think i understand what you are getting at though. Hmmm...

Originally Posted by 88Stanger

If i was to bag the rear section, what are you thinking?

Mounting to the bed floor means the bars are strictly for appearances. The bed floor is hard mounted to the rails from the factory. You'd be attaching bars to material w/o enough bracing or thickness. Tying those bars through the cab wall w/the cab, bed, & frame all independent of each other I feel will be a major issue (headache) for you.

Rear suspension type won't matter here.

You are correct in that NVH harmonics will transfer on a solid mount set-up. This kind-of 'un-does' some of your efforts/upgrades to make for a better driving experience (interior metal dampening; noise reduction materials). I hate to say it but I think you 'gotta draw a line in the sand & choose between a good all-around driver or an occasional weekend warrior. Build toward that choice.

I would reach out to Level 7 Motorsports (https://www.levelsevenmotorsports.com/). He/they are building some of the best pro-touring classic trucks on the road & tracks. This is no corner-cutting shop either. I would ask for his insight on your cage idea & get his feedback. For reference, here's his Squarebody build w/a similar set-up & the way I would go about it so it's less of a visual thing & more of a legit performance addition. . . .....

[SCOTI]

His cab is solid mounted (circled red) & you can clearly see where the gusseting effort that went into mounting the rear bars so they solidly tie into the frame rail.

Also note the oversized hole for clearance (also circled red) since the cab & bed are two separate structures. You could possibly not have to worry about that if the bars are attached @ the top of the loop....

[88Stanger]

Yep, I get it now. Damn, Thank you so much for this insight. I would have made a major bobo without your input.
I am making the decision to not install the roll bar connected to the inside of the cab. So now that this is over.... LOL i will start to look at my boom box design now that there will be little to no issues with a roll bar.. lol I still may look at a way to install a bar just to mount a set of shoulder straps to for seatbelts.... maybe.... i do not that there is a truck on here that did just this... i will see if i saved his pic.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 88Stanger

I think i know what you are getting at Scoti. The bed is on bushings that will allow it to flex and move slightly independent of the frame, so anything attached to the frame will only move with the frame, so counter movements could cause damage. Damn, that could be bad. Even if i was to extend out to the bed, it is separated from the cab and can move independent of the cab also.... I think i am learning here.... So I think your idea is to just install a roll bar inside the cab, only attached to the cab, then the seatbelt shoulder straps could attach to that. I think this is what you are referring to.
Damn, great point.... so... maybe i ditch the whole idea of rollcage. I say this now also because that then interferers with my ideas for a boom box behind the seats in the area.... damn, i am learning all kinds of things today.... lol

Or, do a roll-bar so you have anchor points & have your boom-box idea incorporated into the cage structure as part of it's mounting structure. Skip the pass-through idea. Plate & gusset the cab as required for proper roll-bar anchoring.

That combo won't stiffen the chassis (make it better) but it would offer/increase 'roll-over' protection but even then your head can hit the hoop which defeats the purpose. This is why street cars should not have cages.... because you're not wearing an approved helmet on the street like you are @ the track.

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Or, do a roll-bar so you have anchor points & have your boom-box idea incorporated into the cage structure as part of it's mounting structure. Skip the pass-through idea. Plate & gusset the cab as required for proper roll-bar anchoring.

That combo won't stiffen the chassis (make it better) but it would offer/increase 'roll-over' protection but even then your head can hit the hoop which defeats the purpose. This is why street cars should not have cages.... because you're not wearing an approved helmet on the street like you are @ the track.

Great points.
This is exactly what i was talking about earlier in my little rant. This is the best example of how to respond to a crazy idea that i had but in a very constructive way! So I really appreciate you for that. You saved me from a major mistake and did so in a constructive way.

i swear i owe a few of you on here a drink or two some day... LOL

I am going to get the seats mounted and test fitted and see what i have to work with after that. Then go with idea on roll bar or maybe just a Harness bar, or maybe no bar....

[88Stanger]

Update of Seats mounted

[88Stanger]

more:

[88Stanger]

few more with measurements...

[88Stanger]

and yet more... lol

[88Stanger]

last batch.... lol

Sits really nice not to tall, and the steering wheel should have plenty of room. Sit back a good distance also, so all in all should work good.

I am thinking about install just a single loop for the Shoulder Harness attachments, then sub box in between that.... make more measurements this weekend and get an official plan then...
But taking any suggestions and or comments.....

[88Stanger]

Well seems like i may have some additional time at home for about 10 days..... damnit... yes, I tested Positive for Covid. I was helping whom i call my sister and her husband move furniture for new carpet and her brother does not help moving, but is there and well now they all have it, I got tested and poof... Positive... damnit. With that said, so far and it is have been a few days, I am not to bad... a bit tired and beat, somewhat dry cough and that feeling of helplessness because there is nothing you can really do unless you are really bad off but just work through it... So, that is what i am doing. Not sure what or how much i can do on the truck, but i will try to do what i can.

Idea is to get the cab ready for good base high build primer and get main body work done... Then get inside cab ready for POR15 on floor, then sound mat installed, then inside paint done... So God willing, I will get some of that done in the next 7 to 10 days....

[SCOTI]

Bummer deal....

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Bummer deal....

yep... but what can you do... Pray it all goes good... God has it now...

So far, nothing to bad....