The Official John Lee Jr Thread

[Sharps40]

Not yet...nothing moveing in the heat yet. Sat and Sun I saw one squirrell moveing, a cicada and a monsterous cloud of mosquitoes hanging out at the perimeter of my thermocell.

Spent the heat of midday hotrodding GoodWife's Jeep Wrangler and tweaked the timeing on John Lee from 18+ degrees advance to 16 degrees as we were getting a bit of pinging on heavy pulls/dots on the plug insulators confirmed the pinging. I figured I'd have to adjust timing as the carb leaned up...first noticed the ping at the top of the main/bottom of the secondary as I got down to the 125 jet on the main.

But, Dad will be here Sat and Sun we are off to the Deer Woods with rifles in hand!

Didja get any boar yet?

[K98AL]

No, I haven't been hunting any more. We have the Pecos RunNGun next weekend, then I'll be about ready for deer. It was 96 or so all weekend here, too hot for hunting. Going to try to get '62 in paint shop before I leave for Pecos - I can hardly wait!

[Sharps40]

Got the mail from "The Man"....applicable S10 T5 should be in his shop soon...I'll be reserving it tonight.....3.50 first gear and .76 fith and we'll know shortly whether it's a Non World Class or World Class version....but behind a Buzzin Half Dozen a NWC would prolly be just fine.

Woo Hoo!!!

[Old Bleu]

All right! I'll bet you have yours installed before mine is. I'll be interested to see how you go about the installation. Extending the splines and cutting down the bearing retainer, or grinding the back of the clutch disk. Did you speak to Tom about that?

[Old Bleu]

Om another topic, when you upgraded your alternator, did you have to swap pulleys? The new SI that I got from OReilly has a pulley that is wider than what I have on the truck now. The belt would ride too low in the sheave. I tried just swapping on the pulley from the old alternator, but the hub of that pulley is too thick and leaves no threads showing to bolt it on.

I'm going to have the same alignment problem that you did too. I wonder though, if I can add a washers behind the pulley to move it forward... Guess it will depend on whether that will leave enough threads for the bolt to get a good grip. As I recall, there was nothing extra sticking through the nut, so I'm afraid that is not oing to work.

[Sharps40]

I didn't even check the width of the pulley....I'll go look now...back in a minute.

[Sharps40]

Without havein em side by side, the belt on mine sits about the same amount proud of the pully rim on the water pump and the alternator pulley. So, I'd say they are close enough to the same size. Although, I do admit, the 12SI alternator pulley appears to have a wider groove in it///at least it seems wider than the water pump pulley when you look at them...however, the stock belt rides in mine just fine, ain't had no troubles with slippin and I'm not even close to pullen it up to the end of the adjustment arm.

I managed to get my alignment close enough for long wear, it ain't perfect but that belt is now approaching 5000 miles with no glaze or noise. I straightened the alternator arm, ground off the lug on the alternator case and put some washers behind the alternator arm. If I ever get the alternator off I plan to mill back that area around the lower bolt hole 1/16" to 1/8" more and my alignment will be perfect pulley to pulley I believe.

Course I could also pick up that additional 1/16 to 1/8 by milling out the forward arm of the lower pulley bracket and thereby not have to file on the alternator case any more.

Lastly, if ya feel like fabricatin.... Its also possible that you could bend up a new lower bracket from flat stock, position it where ya want on the block and bolt that alternator into alignment without grinding the tit of the alternator case????

Luck to ya.

[Sharps40]

Good chat with Mr. Langdon at Stovebolt Engine Company tonight. We talked about T5s for Chevy C10s and hear's what I learned from the expert.

By the way, I chose #2, the Chevy Astro Van T5, 3.5 first, .76 fifth, short throw shifter mod, S10 tail housing with mech speedo........being rebuilt and tweaked as we speak and about a month out so it should be here in time for my 50th birthday!!!!

1. S10 T5 is the weakest, but most popular cause its the cheapest. Made for a 170ish inch engine with some margin for abuse. Only suitable in our C10s if driven gently, but not recommended for even the 230/250 and not good for a V8.....First gear is 3.7ish feelin a bit like granny and second won't work as first in our heavy trucks....

2. Astro Van T5 is stronger, plenty good for our 250s with some margin for abuse as they were made for a 262" engine with wide margin for abuse. Much more suitable for my C10 and its 250 Olds engine. First gear is 3.5, about 18% faster than what I have now so first to second shift will be in the 18 mph or so area instead of all the way out to 25+ as it is now with the peanut. Fifth gear will be .76 OD, a 24% reduction in highway rpm likely putting me in the 70 mph class and being able to converse with the passenger at that speed.

3. World Class T5s are the best but cost too much, getting hard as hens teeth to find and parts are hard to find too.....don't even have a line on one and couldn't say when....

Clutch is simple....if you are driving a dump truck and hauling heavy loads and loaning the truck to someone who is gonna abuse the shift, use an 11" clutch...otherwise for a daily driver with a rotating mass that will match the sincronizers, run the 9 1/8 to 9 3/8 S10 clutch. Its more than enough. Make sure to use Valeo or Luke (OEM clutch) for a clutch that WILL NEVER CHATTER.

Finally, getting an S10 yoke with the trans, but a TH350 yoke works too. Either make up a new drive shaft or have the factory one shortened and install the good front yoke.

If you have a late 65 and up C10 Non Syncro first three speed trans (Muncie SM318) there is a good chance you already have a fine spline front yoke and all ya have to do is shorten the drive shaft...ya can bet I'll be yankin my drive shaft this week to see if its course or fine splines!!!!!!!! ($10 says I don't have a fine spline on my peanut!,,,,thats why I ordered the yoke with the trans.)

So, Mr. Langdon will send me an email tomorrow with the details of the order and shippin costs, I call him, get him paid and when the trans is ready, It ships!

Meantime, I gotta find a reputable drive shaft man in Sanford NC....Heaven help me....!!!

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by Sharps40

If you have a late 65 and up C10 Non Syncro first three speed trans (Muncie SM318) there is a good chance you already have a fine spline front yoke and all ya have to do is shorten the drive shaft...ya can bet I'll be yankin my drive shaft this week to see if its course or fine splines!!!!!!!! ($10 says I don't have a fine spline on my peanut!,,,,thats why I ordered the yoke with the trans.)

Meantime, I gotta find a reputable drive shaft man in Sanford NC....Heaven help me....!!!

Ron,
I can feel your excitement. Here's something to think about, but I have NOT verified this, but a little birdie told me that a drive shaft from an Astro van is the correct length for a short bed truck - no cutting needed. There are plenty at the salvage yard. Can't say if the yoke will be correct or not, but I bet it will be easier to swap just the yoke.

[Sharps40]

Well, we'll haveta see bout that. I don't even think we have a decent wrecking yard in the Sanford area to measure em but I can do some digging and firm it up once the trannie is in and I can get a seal to parting line length measurement! Happy almost Birthday to me!!!!

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by Old Bleu

All right! I'll bet you have yours installed before mine is. I'll be interested to see how you go about the installation. Extending the splines and cutting down the bearing retainer, or grinding the back of the clutch disk. Did you speak to Tom about that?

Not yet. We talked a lot, well, mostly Tom educated me and I wound up pickin what he recommends and uses in his 71 truck, the Astro gear set for strength and drivability and the short stroke shifter and the s10 tail shaft.

Weehooo, that man sure is valuable asset to the hobby. Its great that he's in the business and we can still dip into that well of knowledge to our benefit and enjoyment.

I gotta start shoppin the clutch package and find a driveline shop for my DS mods. I think I'll have em replace the rear u-joint at the time its shortened and rebalanced.

I'm thinkin install will be around Christmas when I'm off and home. We'll see. Daily driver now so, if its down I gotta beg GoodWife to lemmie drive her Wrangler!

[Old Bleu]

Yeah, Tom is an encyclopedia on these trucks! I was trying to hold out for the Astro gears, but he just had not come across one before I was going to be in Detroit. Maybe I should have waited and just had it shipped to me, but then I might have gotten the one that you got! Anyway, I've got the WC S10 version. I was not crazy about the low first gear ratio, but it is a truck, and may come in handy when towing or parades or who knows. I too got the short shifter, so maybe it will snick through the gears quickly. My truck came with 255/60 R15 tires, so maybe some taller tires or down the road a rear end change from the 3.73 gears will help. I guess I'll live with it a while and see what I think.

Looks like you will have to move your custom cup holders when the shifter goes in right in front of the seat. Gotta have some kind of cupholder though. This weekend, I left Subway, and with a cigar clenched in my teeth, a 32 oz. cup in my hand, Armstrong steering and three on the tree, I was one busy guy! At least my cell phone didn't ring.

I am going to run back over to OReilly after work. The pulley on the alternator that I got is definitely too wide, the belt drops down to the bottom. Maybe they have a narrower pulley. I will take my belt and the pulley off the original alternator as well. For alignment, I'll probably do some grinding on the alternator boss and the front of the mount as well. It doesn't have to be perfect I guess since the pulley on my new water pump is not in perfect alignment with the crank pulley. Wish I had noticed that before it was all installed!

[Sharps40]

Well, least ya got a world class, carbon fiber syncros, better gears and bearings. It'll be a tougher trans for ya. Besides, 3.73 won't be too bad, ya just get ta snick first and second a bit faster. One thing sure, it won't be a mile between gears for either of us in the near future....and I'm lookin forward to a 750 rpm drop at highway speeds!

Yep, I'm sure the cupholder will have to move....I'm thinkin I need a console on the floor for fire extinguisher, coffee and travel credit account (Smith 60 38 Special) so, another good project and excuse to replace the floor mat and pedals to finish up the inside.

At Orielly, just look at a buncha 12si and the 10SI too cause I found at oreilly the 12sI often comes under the 10SI number as an automatic upgrade from the rebuilder...so, there's bound to be several in there with different pullies. Might just be able to swap products.

In any case, it usually takes an air wrench to get them pulleys off the shaft.

[Old Bleu]

Oh yeah, I was amazed at how easily the pulley nut came loose. I have an air impact as well as an electric, and just a shot from the electric and it came loose. Same for the original, although I did give that one a shot of PB Blaster a few minutes before.

I wound up with a 10SI, which is probably fine, but I may just see if I can swap it for the 12SI model that you used since I know that one will work.

I'm used to driving a 5 speed diesel, so changing gears at low speeds will not be new to me. I'm just hoping the short shifter is smooth with short throws. Also a bit concerned about melting the plastic bushing in it when welding on a straight shifter. Tom had said something about putting a wet rag around it to keep it cool, so we'll see. I have not found an old shifter stick yet, but am wondering if I could just get a length of steel rod in an appropriate diameter and then thread the top of it to accept a ball.

[Sharps40]

I'm waitin to see on the shifter...once I get a look, might cut it off, if its a hollow shaft.

From there, I'll make up an insert and cross bolt it under the boot, so I can pull and swap in about any shifter that can be cut to length and trimmed to slip into the old shaft stub or onto the mateing bit I add to it.

We got a mig melter at the house but I don't weld and my boy welds like i would...gorillia style, keep layin on beads till beatin it with a medium smashwacker don't break it and yer done.

[Sharps40]

10SI is fine. Its rebuildable too. 12SI has a lil better air flow cause of the more efficient fan in the pully and the larger openings out back but the 10SI will last for years and years. I remember the good ol days when ya could get a 10SI rebuild kit with bearings for $3.50 at NAPA and the only hard part was gettin that damn nut off to replace the front bearing.

[Old Bleu]

I'll have to try posting a picture tonight when I get home. Never done that, but I did get the avatar picture, so that's a first step. The hollow shifter screws on to the stub that comes out of the shifter. But the stub has a pretty good bend in it. It might need to be staightened a bit before welding or bolting on to it. I thought about grinding a flat on the side of it and bolting on to it too and have it all hidden under the boot. But the shifter comes off the top of the tranny with 4 small bolts, so even if you weld it you can still easily remove the shifter.

[K98AL]

10SI/12SI - what the heck are y'all talking about?

[Old Bleu]

Originally Posted by K98AL

10SI/12SI - what the heck are y'all talking about?

They are Delco internally regulated alternators. I'm updating the alternator before installing an HEI distributor in my old 230. Trying to wake it up a little!

[Sharps40]

The 10SI and 12SI are a more modern alternator, eliminates the air gap mechanical extrnal regulator with electronic circuitry. Greater amps, greater amps at lower rpm, stable voltage, no voltage spikes that fry HEIs, less maintenance, more reliable, easier to find on the road if one does break...(i.e. mechanics will actually be familiar with the 10SI and 12SI).

[Sharps40]

Old Bleu, I been diggin into the astro T5....I'll talk to Tom for sure but its lookin like the input shaft and bearing collar is of a length like the Camero T5....direct bolt in on the C10 bell houseings...if thats the case (and I'm hopin I understand it correctly) then my install is 4 bolts and a new clutch and done....no cutting input shafts/bearing collars or extending splines. We'll see. Fingers crossed that I ain't conufused as hell.

[K98AL]

Thanks for the info. Curious as I have a squealing belt I suspect is caused by improper fit of belt/pulley. It's a late-model alternator PO added, but I have no idea what it is.

[Sharps40]

This astro van trannie thingie is looking better...

A link to part numbers for the T5s.....

http://www.partesymas.com/catalogos/estandar/T5.pdf

Which shows overall length of the 14 Spline S10 input shaft (the ones that have to be shortened to fit our trucks) as.....

1352085003R INPUT SHAFT - S-10, 9 -1/4", 21T, 14 SPLINES, 9.296” O.A.

And a couple 14 spliners that are available for the Camero/Astro (with the camero t5 supposedly being the direct bolt in for our trucks (no shortning input shaft/bearing shaft to work)

1352085040R INPUT SHAFT - CAMARO, ASTRO, 22T, 14 SPLINES, 8.75” O.A.
1352085012R 14083542 INPUT SHAFT - CAMARO, ASTRO, 21T, 14 SPLINES, 8.75” O.A.


So, lets hope this Astro T5 Swap is actually this simple (direct bolt in like camaro T5) cause I ain't no steady hand spline grinder thats for sure!!!

[Old Bleu]

From reading those specs, I think that your astro transmission is going to bolt in with little to no modification! The forum may not tolerate you waiting until Christmas to install it; we're going to want pictures and a write up a lot sooner.

[Sharps40]

I gotta find a drive shaft guy and a clutch. Clutch is easy. Drive shaft guy here in Sanford area may be tough!....there is one big tranny shop in town I'll check out and a couple lil fellas but we'll see, if they can't balance the whole assembly they ain't gettin it. Sides, I thinks its about a month till Tom gets it out to me.