Project "My Happy Mess"

[litew8]

Now that's what I'm talking about. If you're going to post, post good info. CAN and DO is not wrong, they are used in conjunction.

But to suggest NEVER is.
Sorry, but The Fixer was a body man who worked for a 5 star outfit and I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing.
My point was to debunk the NEVER statement and to not misinform others. Simple as that.

And thanks for the compliments.

[bundeber]

Like I said read your tech sheets. I know for a fact that sikkens epoxy primer CANNOT be applied over their metal wash (etch primer) or it will fail to bond. I'm not saying all products are like this, I just know Sikkens is. I don't have a clue what products you're using so it may be ok, I just want to make sure everyone here knows that all paints and primers may have different chemical properties.

I'm sure the Fixer knows the products that he's using, and I'm sure he knows it's compatible, if it weren't they wouldn't be 5 star! I can understand the NEVER part. But like they say there's more than one way to skin a cat! Just out of curiosity, what brands of primers/paints are you going to be using?

[litew8]

^ Very Fair

[litew8]

Originally Posted by bundeber

Just out of curiosity, what brands of primers/paints are you going to be using?

I'll ask him.

[budmoore]

OnLooks I stumbled into a heck of a conversation .if you guys dont mind may I share some info on painting and bodywork?
Posted via Mobile Device

[litew8]

Originally Posted by bundeber

Just out of curiosity, what brands of primers/paints are you going to be using?

He says it's all Dupont.

Originally Posted by budmoore

OnLooks I stumbled into a heck of a conversation .if you guys dont mind may I share some info on painting and bodywork?
Posted via Mobile Device

Welcome bud. Sure, but please if you're going to make suggestions do it in the form of "May I suggest," or "You may want to consider..." or "An alternative is..." - based upon our build direction.

This is a "build thread" and not an opinion piece for opinion squatting. Thanks.
Just noticed from Des Moines. Wondering if Mark referred you here, I haven't heard from him since his last post.

[tsnow678]

HG stated "from my experience, which is limited" and you blasted on him! What a spoiled little kid you are! Good luck with the truck, unsubscribed.

[litew8]

Didn't ask for it, can't spend all day replying. Guess people don't like to learn. I never said he should leave. You guys give up too easily. Don't cry to me.

[Redhouse]

Originally Posted by tsnow678

HG stated "from my experience, which is limited" and you blasted on him! What a spoiled little kid you are! Good luck with the truck, unsubscribed.

I agree. unsubscribed.

[litew8]

Me three. Unsubscribed.
The whole state of NC can 'unsubscribe' as far as I'm concerned.

[litew8]

Originally Posted by bundeber

Bare metal requires either an etch primer, or an epoxy to stick to bare metal. Although, some 2k high build primers and some polyester primers are now also ok to put direct to bare metal.

I'd like to ask, does the above product/comments reflect/address the fact that Etching primer's composition is to Prevent rust from worsening? There's a reason for using it which I think isn't being understood. We're not simply talking about whether or not a product "sticks" to bare metal.

[budmoore]

wow! I'm not sure I would like to suggest or comment on the subject anymore since the whole audience has unsubscribed there is no one to educate and explain about certain products and their purpose
Posted via Mobile Device

[litew8]

That's it! Any more wise cracks and I'll be forced call the Pit Boss!
It isn't true everyone has unsubscribed, but I am on the verge of losing the entire state of NC

[litew8]

Originally Posted by bundeber

Frankly, I agree with him, use either or the other, but not both. There's really no point in using epoxy if you're etching first.

bundeber, being polite here - you are wrong.

[litew8]

Originally Posted by red69ss

cool can't wait to hear the results. Mine is a infa-blast, I bought it used from a machine shop. It is built almost identical to yours. The glass is close to 1'x2' I can't remember the exact size.

red69ss, we've got the "solution" and it looks like it is going to work!
I'll post pics when I have time.

[litew8]

Ok, lets get back to work!
Pictures of the driver's side door cleaned up more, and passenger's side door.
I've done more since these pictures were taken.
Also, pictures of the "Solution"!








Passenger's door - a little worse than driver's.






SOUTHSIDE! Trust me, we know what we're doing!






Below, trying to show that I replaced (right side) one of the bulbs with a huge
45w Day Light florescent. Will get another one to put on the left side.

[litew8]

Got the other bulb put into the blast cabinet.
Here's a shot of it and product placement.




400w equivalent (both) using only 84w!




Who can guess what this is?

[Dads79GMC]

Looks good!!!! Keep up the good work. Mike
Posted via Mobile Device

[litew8]

Thanks Mike
I used the blast cabinet for while the other day and it looks like the "Solution" is going to work GREAT!

Genius I say, sheer genius!
We'll save $$$ and maintain great visibility!
Eliminating the need to replace the mylar protective sheets!

[bundeber]

Oh I understand the reason for etch primer, if that's what you want to use. But, politely, I am not wrong, I just have a different method than you, I said I didn't see a reason, not that there wasn't a reason. This is basically the difference between old school painters, and new school painters. Etch bonds to the surface via a zink catalyzation. Much like cold galvinizing. I get the chemical reason. But you're basically doing that because the primer is NOT waterproof and the metal needs to be protected in case the paint gets chipped or scratched. However with a waterproof primer, the protection is the same. But let's just drop this conversation as you're not going to change your mind, and I'll not agree with you. I'm willing to accept that there are many ways to do this. From here on out, I'm not going to be a part of the paint discussion, I'll leave that to the paint and bodywork forum. Good luck on your build.

[litew8]

You were wrong, because like the others - you neglected to ask me first what products I intend to use. You came out and made an incorrect blanketing statement, which is factually incorrect. You said it yourself later on to correct yourself, "read your tech sheet".

You can describe it however you'd like, but the simple fact is you were wrong to come out and say what you did. Here's your very first sentence in your very first post:

Originally Posted by bundeber
Frankly, I agree with him, use either or the other, but not both. There's really no point in using epoxy if you're etching first.

I won't drop it because it is a part of my build.
You shouldn't be so quick to make comments if you are unsure.
Here, I'll post mine for everyone to read:

Note: Variprime® 615S™/625S™ should be primed or sealed within 16 hours for best performance.
http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...19303_615S.pdf

If you went into the paint section and made the comments you did here initially, you'd get corrected all the same.

.

[litew8]

I'll admit I don't know enough about the subject to reply to this statement, but it sounds like now you are suggesting that Epoxy primer is similar to Etching primer? I'll let someone more knowledgeable than myself try to decipher what it is you're saying below.

Etch bonds to the surface via a zink catalyzation. Much like cold galvinizing. I get the chemical reason. But you're basically doing that because the primer is NOT waterproof and the metal needs to be protected in case the paint gets chipped or scratched. However with a waterproof primer, the protection is the same.

P.S. Thanks for having this limited conversation, it helps educate those who intend to use DUPONT products differentiate the difference between what is right and what is wrong.

[bundeber]

you're taking a statement OUT of context, I said I agree with him because I wouldn't use epoxy in the manner you're using it. What I was saying is you came down on him pretty hard about it, just because he stated that he, with limited experience, wouldn't do it that way. Ultimately it's YOUR build. Do it YOUR way.

I also stated for everyone to read that the TECH sheets are ultimately what you need to refer to about your paint system. At no point did I say you were wrong to use your paint your way. Just wrong to think your way is the ONLY way to use those products. I never said yours was wrong, just that I don't think it's needed. Furthermore, sanding of epoxy primer is a paper clogging mess. I've only used one brand that didn't clog without a two week wait for it to cure fully. Wet sanding does however yield less clogging, and I imagine in a 5 star body shop that they do wet sanding. But you don't need any coaching there. The FIXER sounds like he knows what he's doing.

I'm not saying epoxy is the same as etching, they go about the process of protecting the metal in two different ways. Etch primer is NOT waterproof. By putting the epoxy over the top of it it will be. Rust is formed by oxidization of the metal, this happens with introduction of water and air. Salt is a catalyst that merely speeds up the process.

Galvinization happens like this.
steel is immersed in a caustic solution to remove organic material such as grease and dirt, followed by dipping in an acid bath (hydrochloric or sulfuric) to remove mill scale and rust, and finally lowered into a bath of flux that promotes zinc & steel reaction and retards further oxidation of the steel… (steel will not react with zinc unless it is perfectly clean).

Etching primers have acid and zinc in them, which essentially cold galvinizes a very thin layer of the steel when they react together.

Epoxy primer bonds well to the metal, thereby creating an airtight, watertight coating which protects the metal from oxidization without the need to create a zinc coating. They don't do the same thing to the metal, but epoxy protects with just a single coat. Like I said, old school versus new school. Both work, epoxy is one less step in the process.

This whole conversation came down because you said HGS you are WRONG WRONG WRONG and then persisted in berating him because he had an opinion. He even started it off by saying in his limited experience. And you ended it by telling him not to post material that was incorrect.

Frankly, none of that makes sense to me, you could have simply told the masses that you were doing it this way because the Fixer did it that way for years in a high quality paint shop and everyone would have been happy. I'd be willing to bet you could go to 3 different paint shops in town and get 3 different answers on how to prime a vehicle. Everyone who paints has a different product they like, a different method they like, etc. My uncle and I disagree on this method as well, not because one works better, but because we each have different styles of working.

I respect your opinion, the Fixer's opinion etc., but I won't agree that it matters what product you're using. I didn't need to ask which products you were using to know that I wouldn't use them. I believe that etching primer is an old school method that is not required anymore. I believe that epoxy makes an EXCELLENT base, sticks like crazy, and lets me topcoat with high build, fillers, etc without every having to worry about moisture getting trapped between filler, or high build and bare steel.

Good luck on your build, I'll continue to watch, but won't continue this dialogue in your build thread, nobody wants to read my opinion on primer techniques anyway. Hell I'm bored just typing it.

[litew8]

Hey man, I never asked for anyones opinion on what product to use, or how to go about using them.
I'm not the one out of line. The way we are doing it IS THE WAY it is suppose to be done, for the products we are going to use.
I didn't "persisted in berating" anyone. Go back and read what I wrong calmly and slowly. It was plain and simple, not angry.
Words don't carry emotion, but some chose to inject some where there isn't.
And I never said he was "wrong, wrong, wrong", The Fixer did - and 1/2 was directed towards the process described.
Like I said before, you might want to ask what products we intend to use FIRST before.

We know what we are doing.
Water under the bridge.

[litew8]

edit: Go back and read what I wrote, calmly and slowly.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Now that the nay-say rambling is over (hopefully ), we'll continue on!

Reconditioned my fresh air vents today.
Drilled out the old rivets and replaced w/new, similar rivets.




After, I used the drill bit to make holes in the new insert for the new rivets.








The tool used to smack the rivets down into place.
Didn't get a picture of them finished, going to touch up with ZR first.




Product placement.






This explains it.