TA_C10: Stage 1

[siggyfreud]

Ah okay, diagram looks good!

Have you decided what you're doing yet for air intake?

[TA_C10]

Originally Posted by siggyfreud

Ah okay, diagram looks good!

Have you decided what you're doing yet for air intake?

I haven't decided on manufacturer, but I know I'm getting a kit to build. Thoughts right now are I will aim it towards the passenger side as far as I can. And I purposely left the MAF wires loose with no plug because I will extend it all the way to the filter end of tubing. I learned that the MAF readings should be true out at the filter rather than at the intake. I also learned it should be placed on a straightaway in the tube so I'm hoping to design the intake tubing around that theory as well (no bends at filter).

What are your thoughts? Do you think it necessary/better to build a cold air box instead of leaving the filter open?

[siggyfreud]

I'm always a fan of having a box just to avoid the extra ambient heat. The problem with our bays is that to move an open filter away from radiator air you have to have a decently long run of a tube, and then somehow support it, or have the end-filter rest. I have seen people just do a 90* off the throttle body and run a cone filter a few feet away. It works I'm sure, I've just always felt like there are better solutions.

I was asking because I'm actually going to start prototyping a cold air box for our engine bays sometime in December. I've got my large format 3d printer on pre-order now, and am going to start modeling it in Fusion360.

I don't have a fuel injector motor yet, so just keeping my eye open for people who do who might want to test something. Certainly, don't wait on me, but if the timing worked out and you were interested I'd love to have a tester or two.

The idea is to build a box that fits nicely, in this case, in the passenger location, and utilizes an easy-to-find off-the-shelf filter, whether it's a cone style or drop-in-rectangle. It could be designed such that coming right off the box your MAF could attach I imagine.

But curious to hear what your wants and needs would be if you were building the ideal box.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by TA_C10

I haven't decided on manufacturer, but I know I'm getting a kit to build. Thoughts right now are I will aim it towards the passenger side as far as I can. And I purposely left the MAF wires loose with no plug because I will extend it all the way to the filter end of tubing. I learned that the MAF readings should be true out at the filter rather than at the intake. I also learned it should be placed on a straightaway in the tube so I'm hoping to design the intake tubing around that theory as well (no bends at filter).

What are your thoughts? Do you think it necessary/better to build a cold air box instead of leaving the filter open?

Where did you find this info (1st statement highlighted)?

Isolation of under-hood temps vs. intake charge would seem 'better'. Cooler/denser air should be better but it's all about the law of diminishing returms as far as "how much".

[TA_C10]

Siggy I'm definitely down for testing a new box man. I'm not going to be that far before December so timing should work out for me.

Scoti let me find that info, pretty sure it was on this site in the LSx board so that statement may not be fully legit. I have not completed my research on the intake tube yet so those statements of mine above are pre-planning phase

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by TA_C10

Siggy I'm definitely down for testing a new box man. I'm not going to be that far before December so timing should work out for me.

Scoti let me find that info, pretty sure it was on this site in the LSx board so that statement may not be fully legit. I have not completed my research on the intake tube yet so those statements of mine above are pre-planning phase

No worries..... Curiosity mainly. I've often wondered if there were benefits to be had when considering the sensor placement when it comes to 'custom' set-ups. I know OE tuning can be disrupted when doing LS swaps & not keeping things consistent.

[TA_C10]

Found it, this was where I started: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...&highlight=maf

And this is a couple other threads I have saved to go read again before i make my final decision on MAF/Intake tube:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...t=maf+location

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...t=maf+location

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...t=maf+location

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...t=maf+location

[siggyfreud]

Most of what I've read on MAF location suggests that including it in a straight piece of section, preferably about 12" after any major bend, is best to avoid errant readings due to air turbulence.

Sounds good TA_C10. What MAF are you using? I can start doing some prelim designs and see if I can just build in a 12" straight section coming off the box that will hold the MAF, and then you could run whatever piping/ducting you want from there. I could always print up additional bends/angles too if needed.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by siggyfreud

Most of what I've read on MAF location suggests that including it in a straight piece of section, preferably about 12" after any major bend, is best to avoid errant readings due to air turbulence.

Sounds good TA_C10. What MAF are you using? I can start doing some prelim designs and see if I can just build in a 12" straight section coming off the box that will hold the MAF, and then you could run whatever piping/ducting you want from there. I could always print up additional bends/angles too if needed.

I know little on late model FI set-ups & this is what I understood as well. Always figured it would be best to keep it as close to the TB inlet as possible within the constraints of the inlet tubing bends.

[TA_C10]

Originally Posted by siggyfreud

Sounds good TA_C10. What MAF are you using? I can start doing some prelim designs and see if I can just build in a 12" straight section coming off the box that will hold the MAF, and then you could run whatever piping/ducting you want from there. I could always print up additional bends/angles too if needed.

I bought a new Delphi OEM MAF to use since my LS is stock for this stage of my build. Sounds good on the box. I will send any details you need from me. I only plan to have my jumper terminals up high on the core support, other than that nothing there I guess but lines coming from a/c condenser. I'm excited dude!

Originally Posted by SCOTI

I know little on late model FI set-ups & this is what I understood as well. Always figured it would be best to keep it as close to the TB inlet as possible within the constraints of the inlet tubing bends.

So far what I'm reading is OE had specs on where they place the MAF but with a tune it won't matter. But what you don't want is turbulence off a bend or heat soak from being too close to engine. I know my 89 mustang from factory has the MAF sensor out close to air filter, and when I installed a vortec s/c kit made for the car it took the MAF sensor and put it right outside the air box and the bend was just AFTER the MAF heading towards TB. That's old school tech in this fox bodies and that thing had no tune and ran like a beast with no issues. This makes me think this info I'm reading makes sense. The cold air is out by box. Gets warmer the closer to TB the air travels. And having less turbulence also makes sense to me because those sensors are very sensitive. I had to clean my MAF with spray all the time because the oil maintenance on my K&N would eventually coat the wires and I would have poor idle issues after maybe couple months or so. Food for thought...

[siggyfreud]

Sweet. A few questions for you:

1. Would you be open to having bolts through the core support for mounting?
2. Would you be open to having an inlet hole in the core support to draw in fresh air?
3. If not, where would you prefer the fresh air come from?
4. Is this the mass airflow? https://www.amazon.com/Delphi-AF1004.../dp/B000CGFHBY


I'm going to take some initial measurements this weekend. I'd like to see if a ZL1 filter will work. It has the general shape I think would work well, and obviously supports some HP, and would be nice to have an off-the-shelf filter someone could readily get both OEM and aftermarket.

An aftermarket cone filer would be easy too, but I like the idea of being able to remove a lid and just slide in a new filter too.

[TA_C10]

I'm open to all that, I figured if I made a box I would either put a hole in core support or build a pipe in bottom of box and grabbed air from below core support. And that is the exact same MAF yes.


This is the only universal box I liked that I could find, mainly because it wasn't some huge square box. I still wanted a little style if possible. I will be interested to see what you come up with.

[siggyfreud]

Understandable on style. I'll have to try a few things out and see what I can do. Looks like that K&N unit only flows 250hp NA . It's not bad lookin otherwise.

[TA_C10]

Originally Posted by siggyfreud

Understandable on style. I'll have to try a few things out and see what I can do. Looks like that K&N unit only flows 250hp NA . It's not bad lookin otherwise.

Yeah it wouldn't work and a box is probably only thing that will. Let's just make it cool

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by siggyfreud

I was asking because I'm actually going to start prototyping a cold air box for our engine bays sometime in December. I've got my large format 3d printer on pre-order now, and am going to start modeling it in Fusion360.
Certainly, don't wait on me, but if the timing worked out and you were interested I'd love to have a tester or two.

The idea is to build a box that fits nicely, in this case, in the passenger location, and utilizes an easy-to-find off-the-shelf filter, whether it's a cone style or drop-in-rectangle. It could be designed such that coming right off the box your MAF could attach I imagine.

But curious to hear what your wants and needs would be if you were building the ideal box.

I've been known to be a test dummy myself! I am at the point of deciding what should go where under the hood of my 72 also, so if I can be a help to you, count me in. TA_C10 and I live within 30 miles of each other so I'd be easy for us to compare 2 systems side by side, take notes and report back.

I've been pondering the idea of running the ducting through the core support and building a "ram air" style filter box between the grille and support, or just have a filter box there and take the fresh air from a custom built scoop hidden down low. I haven't put the pencil to the paper yet, but will very soon. I'd like to have something unique, as opposed to the 90 bend into a straight tube with the cone filter, like the Spectre 9906.

I saw this custom one at the C10 Nationals a few months ago, an incredibly beautiful truck built by 68 short step. My thought was to continue the piping through the core support and have the filter out of the heat.

If I go that route I'll definitely need to add some length to the harness. Can extending the wiring to the MAF cause any issues?

[siggyfreud]

Awesome, good to know. Once I get moving I'll fire up a specific thread, or maybe get your emails and take this outta the build thread .

I've heard of people extending the MAF, but I personally don't know of dos or don'ts with it.

[MDPotter]

I extended my MAF wiring and I have the Spectre kit. I'll let everyone know if I have issues once it's up and running.

[TA_C10]

I'm no expert but when I rebuilt my wire harness I did my research and lots of joker's talking about not extending wires but never gave intelligent reasons. My family is full of electricians and they and other research I did lead me to believe that as long as you use the proper methods to joining 2 wires together and use the proper tools/material there is no issue extending wires that will perform well and last a long time. Cheap wire is a bad idea, and cheap material to connect also bad idea. Anything I extend I get good solder and make sure I don't use too much as that can cause problems too. Shrink tube, proper heat, Etc. Etc.

I've done a couple harnesses over the years and never had any problems. Dyno tuners never noticed, and those vehicles are still driving around, one of them is a weekend racer

But again I'm no expert and won't claim my comments are legit but in my experience your fine. There is a distance variable, but inside an engine bay your normally not gonna reach that limit..

[MDPotter]

I would worry if it was reaching further than the engine bay or if for instance you merged 4 injector or coil pack wires without upping the wire gauge. I just hope mine starts and runs! I literally touched every single wire on my LS harness and extended or shortened almost every one of them. I did do a continuity test on every single wire from the C1/C2 connector to the plug when I was done, so theoretically it should work.

[cornerstone]

Thanks guys!

[TA_C10]

Potter its an awesome feeling when the harness you built fires up and works for years and years. Good feeling man. There is something about building a wire harness that separates itself from all the other work you do on a project, it's something I really enjoyed. However, having this AA classic kit for the rest of the truck I must say I'm happy to have

Cornerstone, I forgot we are that close, next goodguys and/or c10 nationals I would like to roll with man, let's do it.

[MDPotter]

I did enjoy reworking mine. It was something that I had plenty of time for so I could work on it a couple hours a night and take my time and do it right. When we did my dad's Gen 4 swap, we had not idea what we were getting into so we sent the harness to Speartech to rework. I did mine myself and now I have a good understanding of how these sensors work and it's actually really simple. I'll really be happy when it fires up and runs! Fingers crossed.

[cornerstone]

I'm envious of you guys, to have the ability to build your own harness must be nice...

Yes! Its better when you go to the shows with another enthusiast instead of alone or dragging along someone who is ready to go in like an hour. Hopefully we will both be able to drive our classics too!

Brian

[TA_C10]

I've been at it for days.... I want to try and remove all wires from bulkhead I don't need and replace with everything I can like DBW, LS harness, accessories, etc. So I am building a new wiring diagram to make sure I capture it all. I am happy with the progress so far but it doesn't feel good not getting out in the garage much.

But don't worry, I have a couple of weeks worth of updates coming still. I just haven't had the time to get it all together for posting yet. Holidays, you all know.





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[Scurry67]

Sounds like you've been putting in a lot of work. How many hours deep are you into that harness? Looking forward to seeing that clean engine bay