1957 Chevy 3100, meet 1994 Dodge Ram 1500

[Purcell69]

Well after taking the winter off (no shop complete yet), I am slowly starting back at it again. I am about to level the frame and square it up, then make a plywood template of the 1957 Chevy cab floor to locate the mounting points and get my mounts set-up on the Dodge frame. There is a little over 7" of drop from the rear section of the frame where the bed mounts, to the step where the cab will mount. At the front, the drop is only a bit over 4 1/2"

I have decided to cut the ears off the Dodge frame and reuse them to mount the Chevy cab, since they are the right size for the Dodge cab isolators. The isolators that go between the cab and the ear on the frame are 1 1/2" thick, which will help take up some of the 7"+ of drop in the frame under the cab. The rest will be 11ga rectangular tube or square tube, as needed. The isolators at the front are only 1" thick, so some 3" 11ga

Once everything is matched to the template, I will pull the cab from the Chevy frame, weld in replacement panels for the passenger floor between the seat riser and toe board, both steps with rockers (why is it the rockers always got crushed by some clown with a jack?!), and the rear cab corners.

My goal this year is to get the cab mated to the Dodge frame, and the engine in and running before winter sets in again. If I can get all of that done, I can finish up the body work next spring and prep for paint.

-Joe

[Purcell69]

I spent this morning comparing and measuring between the 57 Chevy chassis and the Dodge frame. I have the Dodge frame sitting level now, so things are going to be a lot easier to work with. From my front axle centerline to the center of my core support mounts, the measurement is roughly 19". I will pin this one down as soon as I remove the front clip on the 57, but it is close enough to get an idea of what part of the Dodge frame I will be working with for the core support.

From the front axle centerline to the center of the front cab mount, the distance is 28 3/4", and from the front cab mount center to the rear cab mount center, it is 44". This means that the front mount will be in the 7" drop area on the Dodge frame and the rear mount will be in the 3" drop, ahead of the front wall of the bed (speaking of the Dodge bed.). Neither of these presents a problem.

My future son-in-law pointed out something I had not considered though, the engine position. Small block Dodge and small block Chevrolet are essentially 32" long from the bellhousing flange to the front of the belt driven fan. The area of concern is where Dodge mounted the engine. Knowing I have pretty close to 19" to the center of the core support mounts, I looked at where my fan currently resides in relation to the radiator. There is a 2" gap. From my bellhousing in the Dodge chassis to the centerline of the core support, the distance is, you guessed it, 32". If I lose the belt driven fan in favor of an electric, I can get back 3" and as long as the electric fan is less than 3" thick, I can use a puller style fan and all will still be happy.

I can move the engine, transmission and transfer case back, however, moving too much will affect the space left between the back of the transfer case on the drivers side and the rear axle, where the fuel tank resides. I already have the shortbed fuel tank, so if I have to give up too, much, I will need a custom tank. I am trying to avoid this.

What is the thickness of the Ford Taurus e-fan that the Jeep guys like, (95-ish) model as I recall?

-Joe

[Purcell69]

Ok, here are a few pictures from today. I have a couple of pieces of 2" square tube laying on top of the Dodge frame rails to help me see where things will be, more or less. The 1957 Chevy frame is pretty much two flat rails, so the 2" box tube helps to simulate that with the Dodge's stepped frame.



Since I don't have a shop floor to work off of yet, I am doing most of this on my driveway slab, which is far from level. I used cinder blocks and screw jacks to level the frame this morning, taking the weight off the suspension.



Here is another place where the box tube came in handy with the stepped frame. The rear of the frame where the bed mounts and the arch for the front suspension are the same height, so the box tube just spans the gaps.



Everything level, front to back and left to right.







Disregard all the mess around my work area. A friend bought some property down the road that came with a bunch of tools, assorted fluids, etc. He dropped off all that he didn't want. Until the shop is done, storage is almost none right now. And being spring time, the trees are shedding everywhere. Everything is coated with a yellow haze of pollen.

-Joe

[Kim57]

Looks like you have it planned out pretty well.
Kim

[Purcell69]

Originally Posted by Kim57

Looks like you have it planned out pretty well.
Kim

Thanks Kim. I'm trying to think ahead as much as possible. This isn't my first frame mod or engine swap, but this is the most challenging so far. On the surface, keeping the Dodge drivetrain seemed like a good idea as a way to keep it simple. Really, it isn't a bad idea, I just forgot about the drivetrain location and took it for granted that it was all good, (it's been a while since I did my Camaro front clip, so...)

Still, moving the drivetrain is well witin my abilities.

-Joe

[Purcell69]

After checking measurements and looking everything over closely, moving the drivetrain back 5" is well within safe on either end of the fuel tank. I dummied up the tank mounting and found I have much more room than anticipated. Before the move, I have 12" between the back of the transfer case and the front of the gas tank, and math says 7" after. The rear of the tank is referenced by the crossmember ahead of the rear axle, there the tank is notch to fit the crossmember. There is more than a few inches there between the tank and axle, as fit checked when the frame was shortend and the crossmember was removed and remounted, so all is good.

While checking everything, I discovered that the 2" box tube that I had laid on top of the frame between the rear section and the front arch was not quite parallel with the frame and I needed to raise the front at the arch about 1". I picked up some 1"x2" 11 ga. tube to rest on top of the arch and extend forward for the core support and front bumper mounts. From the front axle centerline to the center of the core support is 19". the frame needs to extend another 10" to accomodate mounting the front bumper, so this morning I began making my mounts.



In the pic, you can see the rectangle stock under the box tube. The end of the rectangle stock is 29" from the center of the front axle. I will drop a leg down to the Dodge frame at the end to start fixing my bumper mounts. Once everything is located and good, the extension of the Dodge frame forward of the mount will be trimmed off.



One of my favorite tools ^^^^. This was a replacement for my first welder, a simple Campbell Hausfeld flux core welder, (Flux 80 I think). After 10 years of building barns and fence and fixing this and that, the little CH needed more cool down time than could weld. The Lincoln 3200HD can run gas or gasless and welds single pass up to 1/4". It also has a built in cooling fan, so no long periods of down time in the middle of a project. I don't recall how many years I've had it now, maybe 8 or 9, but I love this heavy bastard.

I had to notch out the legs that will be welded to the Dodge frame. After marking, I used the DeWalt and a metal cutting blade to trim things up.





And now its all ready to tack together before final welding.









With the extensions all welded up, I set them aside for the time being, until I finish disassembling the front clip on the Chevy and check final fit on the core support. The other day I started cutting the welds on the motor mounts to remove them from the frame, as they will need to move back one full thickness (5"). The top weld was cut with an angle grinder, but there is a weld along one side as well as two small arms that act as gussets on the bottom. I cut the gussets with the sawzall with the intent of replacing them with my own, and then set about cutting the side weld.





With the sawzall and a good metal cutting blade, I was able to cut the side weld pretty easily and remove the mount intact, ready to be relocated and welded in place again. My first inclination is to tack them in to place and check for fit, then final weld if all is good. Hanging them on the motor, then using the motor as the guide for placement could also work, but leave little room to tack weld.



With the top weld and the gussets cut, I was able to make a little room with the hammer and chisel.



Engine mount removed, just some welds to clean up now. One down, one to go.



And the right side is out for future reference.

-Joe

[Kim57]

Nice progress.
Kim

[_Ogre]

i hate to point out the obvious (too me)
the way you have the blocks under your frame is how people in this hobby get killed.
look around at any home with a block basement or any mobile home sitting up on blocks
while i don't recommend them for any truck use, blocks have no strength the way you have them under your truck
when, not if, they crack they will fail catastrophically. where yo had two 8'' tall blocks will now be 1 inch tall

if you insist on using blocks at least turn them like a mason would use them
(hint) stack them like the 2 blocks behind your frame, not like all the blocks under your frame

[Purcell69]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

i hate to point out the obvious (too me)
the way you have the blocks under your frame is how people in this hobby get killed.
look around at any home with a block basement or any mobile home sitting up on blocks
while i don't recommend them for any truck use, blocks have no strength the way you have them under your truck
when, not if, they crack they will fail catastrophically. where yo had two 8'' tall blocks will now be 1 inch tall

if you insist on using blocks at least turn them like a mason would use them
(hint) stack them like the 2 blocks behind your frame, not like all the blocks under your frame

No worries Ogre. This was pointed out on another forum as well and your point is valid and important. I was careful to center the jacks on the rib, but you are correct. The good news is this is an old picture and the bricks have been flipped, also, I was not adding the body while it was jacked, the jacking was only to get my references right for the body mounts and I was not getting under the frame. Still, no need to perpetuate a bad and unsafe exaple.

THANK YOU!!!

-Joe

[Purcell69]

After getting the motor mounts cut from the frame, I tacked in my mounts for the core support and rechecked my measurements to locate the core support. I also jacked up the front of the '57 and got it settled in on jack stands so I could start the task of removing the front sheet metal. The easiest way to do this is to pull the front wheels and get up into the fender to get to all the hidden bolts that hold the front fenders, inner fenders, grille and valance together.

Since I am satisfied I have a good reference on the height of the cab mounts now, I took the Dodge frame off the jacks and blocks and set it back on its wheels. I tacked in my 1x2" box tube at the front, over the front arch and with the front of the '57 now disassembled, I was able to place the core support.



I had been concerned about clearance between the bottom of the radiator and the steering box, but after a little sheet metal trimming, there is plenty of room around the steering lines and gearbox. Also, with all of the sheet metal removed from the 1957's front, I found my measurements were close but not 100%, and picked up an extra 3/4" ahead of the front axle, (and away from the steering lines). Additionally, once the transmission was back to level, I found I have 31 1/2" between the bellhousing and the radiator.



My last measurement of the length of the engine, to the front of the fan was pretty close to 32", so I will not need to move the drivetrain back as much as I had anticipated, (5" initially). With any luck at all, I will get the engine back on the crane this coming week for fitment check. It looks like 2"-3" will be more than enough. At the same time, I will tack in the engine mounts to their new homes ahead of final welding.

If the engine only needs to move the 2"-3" that I expect, I will not need to have a new front driveshaft built. I checked it this morrning and found that as it sits static, (no load on the suspension from engine or body), to fully extended, I have at least 3" of expansion at the slip joint. This means that if I move the transmission and transfer case back 3" to make room for the engine, I will use all of the possible expansion, however, the weight of the engine and body will compress the suspension (and the driveline) about 2" roughly. Down the road when it is time to have the front shaft rebuilt, I will have it lengthend to account for the engine movement, but for now it should be fine, since this truck isn't going to be used as a rock crawler or anything like that, just a daily driver when I feel like it.

-Joe
__________________

[Purcell69]

I made some unexpected progress yesterday. I had taken the day off from work to swap out a noisy front axle on the daughter's Jeep. Before I started taking her Jeep apart, I decided it would be a good idea to replace the upper control arm bushings on the Jeep axle that was going to be installed. By the time I got that job done, it was already noon-thirty and I did not want to chance not getting the job done and leaving her without a vehicle.

After taking a break for some lunch, I decided it was time to move the crossmember that supports the front of the gas tank. It is held in place on the top of the Dodge frame with four rivets. I knew from measurements that I would need to move it forward on the frame about 3", but figured it would be best to hang the tank and see just where exactly it would need to be. I cut the heads off the rivets with my angle grinder, then drilled down in to them, just like I did with the subframe when I shortend the truck. Once drilled, the crossmember popped off with a few light hammer taps. The remaining rivets were tapped out of the frame with a hammer and punch.









I ran in to a glitch when it came time to hang the tank. Somehow I misplaced the rear strap that supports the fuel tank. At the time I did not know there was a front and a rear strap, until i went to hang the tank with the front strap at the rear and realized it was too long. As far as the rear strap, I guess it went with the Dodge cab that was hauled off for scrap, because I will be damned if I could find it. $32 buys a new pair, so it is not a huge crisis. In the meantime, I used a tie down strap to hold it in place.



Once I had the gas tank hung and the crossmember relocated, I fabbed up an adapter to relocate the transmission mount. I need to move the engine and transmission back about 2" for there to be adequate room between the fan and radiator. With the transmission sitting level, the fan is about 1/2" into the radiator presently. I also want to raise the engine and transmission about 1.5". Since neither movement is enough to warrant a new transmission crossmember, I made an adapter out of 1/4" plate stock and a piece of 1x2" 11ga box tube.

I drilled the plate steel to match the stud holes in the transmission crossmember and the studs on the transmission mount, one for the top under the mount and one for the bottom at the crossmember. The plates were offset to move the holes back about 2.5" There is also about 1.25" of movement to the rear available at the crossmember.









With this adapter installed, I now have 1 7/8" room between the fan and radiator and can move back an extra 1.25" if need be. I still need to add flat stock to tie the top and bottom plates together on either side of the box tube, to protect the adapter from torque loading the box tube. The beauty of this is it bolts in, so it can be removed if needed.

-Joe

[Kim57]

Looking good.
Kim

[Purcell69]

Yesterday morning I got after it again once the rain stopped. I removed the radiator and core support from the Dodge frame. Then I rolled the engine out on the stand and pulled the exhaust manifolds off to give me a little extra working room. With the manifolds out of the way, I bolted up the mounts I had cut from the frame and put them on either side of the engine, attached to the motor mounts.







^^^ Helper Kitty here to supervise ^^^

Once this was done, I placed a jack under the transmission and raised the front so I could remove the support I have bolted to the bellhousing. Then came the fun part...I pulled out the engine crane to raise the motor and removed the engine stand adapter. Since there is no sheet metal in the way, it was pretty easy to mate the engine to the transmission. After the engine and transmission were connected, I put the core support back in place and found I have ample clearance between the engine and radiator now.







When I was satisfied that the engine was in position with the transmission sitting level and no longer supported by the jack, I tacked the motor mount brackets to the frame, then removed the radiator and core support, and pulled the engine back out for final welding of the engine mount brackets.





The engine mount brackets were raised about 1" and moved rear 2". This leaves plenty of space between the stock 5.9 fan and the radiator.

-Joe

[Purcell69]

Things here slowed down just a bit. My daughter was getting ready to graduate (Valedictorian!) and we had friends and family coming in for the event.



Things are starting to pick back up again and I did cut the cab mount ears from the Dodge frame for reuse. Once I had them all cut off, I used my 2" square tube and the 1x2 to mock the cab mounts into place.





One of the issues I encountered was a conflict between the rear cab mounts and the front crossmember that supports the fuel tank. In order to repurpose the factory brackets from the Dodge frame, it looked like I would need to modify the crossmember. I took another look after anticipating notching the frame in that spot, and found a better solution.

The factory Dodge insulator is a two piece unit that has steel backs top and bottom. The upper half has a stepped down extension that sits through the frame mount and seats into a rubber donut backed by a large steel washer that cups it all together. The mounting bolt runs through the middle to pull it all together. The problem I ran in to was the position of the mount and insulator in relation to the frame of the truck. The width of the rear mounts on the cab is just about 2" wider than the frame of the Dodge. The insulators need an extra 1/2" spacing in to the frame due to their circumference. Also the thickness of the lower portion would require a notch about 1/2" deep.



All of this puts the bracket for the insulator right over the two rear-most bolts that hold the crossmember for the fuel tank to the frame. Instead of cutting the frame and crossmember to accomodate the cab mount, I trimmed the cab mount back on the front edge to allow the crossmember to slid into place and be bolted up.



This still leaves the issue of the lower washer interfereing with the frame. Instead of notching and boxing the frame in that area, I notched the steel washer. By trimming off 1/2" and making a flat spot on one side, The washer and the lower half of the insulator fit in place.





When everything is torqued down, the washer should have no contact with the frame at all. Normally the washer has the lower part of the bushing glued to it, but I pulled the bushing off to cut and fit, but the bushing will be back in place for assembly.



I tacked in the rear cab mounts on the back side for now. I still need to make gussets to extend down to the frame front and back for structural support, but that won't be until I am sure it is all squared up and I get some more 3/16" plate steel.

The front cab mounts were about the right width off the Dodge frame, but were too far forward and too low to accomodate the Chevy cab. Once cut from the frame and mocked up with the bushings, the lower edge of the mount was now level with the top of the frame rail, though hanging in space. In order to tack things in place, I added some 1/8" plate I had on hand. Again, once everything is finally located, I will make gussets to extend the mounts down to the frame, top and side, for structural support.



This morning I went out to recheck everything and found a 1/2" variation on the right side of the frame, between the cab mounts. It was getting ready to rain and I had to go in to work a few hours later, so for now, I am at a stopping place until I find and fix the error and can finshing welding in the cab mounts. As best as I could tell, the right front cab mount is about 1/2" too far forward. Thank goodness I only tacked them all in place.

-Joe

[Kim57]

Congrats on your daughter.
Nice work on the frame.
Kim

[Baldeagle SR]

What a project you have got going.
Rich
my build
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...64#post6690964

[Purcell69]

Thanks Kim and Rich. Katherine did all the hard work and will continue on this fall in a pre-Med program at East Central. The kid already has 21 college hours completed. She's a hard worker.

Rich, I'm susbscribed to your thread. I really like what you did with the fuel door and the battery relocate. The headliner has come out very well.

I found out where I deviated that roughly 1/2" on the right side cab mounts. I went back and set everything back in place this morning and rechecked measurements once again on both sides. Somehow I moved the right front cab mount forward 3/16" when I tacked it in. The right rear was also back 1/4". If the weather holds off for a little while tomorrow afternoon, I will cut the tack spots free and move everything in to proper position and reweld. I have the day off with the exception of an honor guard detail at the cemetary at 1100. It is supposed to rain (which we need), but I'm betting it won't be an all-day rain.

-Joe

[Baldeagle SR]

Joe I have learned a lot of ideas from these fourms and if I can pass something along that makes me happy. Rich Hope you had a safe weekend

[Purcell69]

It's been a good weekend. The rain slowed me down a bit, but it held off long enough for the Honor Guard to stay dry during Memorial Day Services at the cemetery.

Once I got home and changed into working clothes, I rechecked my measurements and re-tacked the right side cab mounts. The rain passed through about the time I finished welding. I had enough time to get the tools put up before they got wet. Once the rain was done, I went to grinding on the frame where I had cut off the cab mounts, to clean things up. Since the welds are near the rear of the arch for the front axle, I am leaving them for strength.

Hope everyone has had a safe Memorial Day weekend.

-Joe

[made2drag]

Nice work and I cant wait to see everything mounted.

[Purcell69]

Thanks M2D. I made a little progress the past few days (no pics yet though). I picked up the flare ends I need to shorten the rear brake hardline to match the frame, got the 3/16" plate steel I need to gusset the cab mounts and cut out and welded the gusset plates on the rear cab mounts. I am really itching to test fit the '57 cab to the Dodge frame now that everything is in position. The '57 cab is unbolted with the exception of the steering column and the wire harness.

I'm taking a week off to spend with the wife for our 20th anniversary, so everything truck related at the house will be put on hold for a week. Once we get back, I'm going to put the front wheels back on the '57 chassis and roll it out to where the shop is being built, so I can lift the cab from the frame. After I have the cab hanging, I will roll the Dodge frame underneath and can hopefully bolt the Chevy cab in place (for now).

It seems the other day, while fussing with the front cab mounts, I somehow nicked the Dodge wire harness with the grinder. At first I though a piece of slag from the welder had melted the plastic conduit over the harness, but on closer inspection, I saw exposed copper. I'm lucky that I found it now, rather than having to chase a gremlin. The damaged wires are the rear harness for the taillights, fuel guage, and fuel pump. The harness could stand to be shortend anyway, so in all it will not lead to any additional work. I have the soldering gun and shrink wrap ready.

-Joe

[Baldeagle SR]

Joe hope you have a safe trip out here. Rich

[Purcell69]

Originally Posted by Baldeagle SR

Joe hope you have a safe trip out here. Rich

Thanks Rich! Looks like we are going to change plans up a bit and will most likely be back up in your area later in the week, probably Thursday. We'll give you a call when we get near Pinetop / Lakeside. If all goes well, I may push tomorrow for a straight through drive, but we will see. Mom is going to take a few days off from her work, so I figured we would visit with her, then head back north out of the Valley to the mountains we love.

-Joe

[Purcell69]

As I said above, I really did not get a lot done this past week, but I took a few pics before work today to show what was accomplished.





^^^ Here's the rear cab mounts all welded in. I'm pretty sure this will be the final location for these guys based on all my measurements. If by some chance I screwed up along the way, I can still cut the welds to relocate. The 3/16" plate steel that extends down to the frame has not been trimmed back yet. The bottom will be angled back to the frame when complete. Next week I will set the cab in the mounts for final confirmation.





^^^^ These are the front mounts. I have not yet added the 3/16" plate to tie it all to the frame more securely, just in case I need to move them again. As they sit, they will hold the load of the cab, I just want to be certain before these are finish welded, as any more work on them will make them a pain to remove.

The box tube running across the mounts was only for locating purposes. It will be removed before the cab is set into place.



^^^^ My FUBAR was nicking the wire harness with the angle grinder. I was lucky to spot it early on, and lucky that it only has the wires for the rear lights, fuel guage and fuel pump. I will cut and solder when I get back.



Today, I got things loaded for the roadtrip. All secure and ready to travel. vvvv





-Joe

[Kim57]

Things are looking good.
Kim