Insurance woes after hit and run

[Tork?]

Originally Posted by Boog

Well i obviously have the form wrong. Many years ago my truck was hit by an old man who claimed he had no insurance or anything. I found out later he told two others involved in the accident he would take care of them. Our family attorney friend filled out some form to send the state whereas that mans license would be pulled until debt was paid. In 10 days he paid my damage estimate and attorney fees. The old man thought my old truck was worthless. He was wrong. He was going to cheat this kid but my dad saw to it that didnt happen.
I'm glad you came into this topic. Thanks

Thank you. And I see what you're getting at you're right in your scenario you leveraged the other driver with the threat of taking away his license. This is different because there's really nothing between mrtoni and the driver, only mrtoni and the driver's insurance company.

Originally Posted by mrtoni

Yep, preparing to get screwed. Adjuster report says comp sales are 7700 in Iowa and 7900 Missouri. Her estimate for repairs is 2400. If it hits about 4500 which it will it will be a total loss. They will pay 8200 for total loss minus salvage price est $200 by her and I can retain it.
She said in litigation there 3rd party neutral computer estimate cannot be challenged i.e. Value is un arguable.

To the op, that's complete BS their computer generated estimate is likely disputed in every case against them. Again another tactic to get you to settle early. What she means is "our internal policy is to not pay anything over what the computer model that is rigged against you tell us to." I did a little research for you and I think I found why they pulled those rust belt comps. Below is a section from the Nevada Administrative Code governing Insurance companies. I highlighted the passages that jump out at me.

Nevada Administrative Code 686A.680 
1.  When an insurance policy provides for the adjustment and settlement of first-party automobile total losses [B]on the basis of actual cash value or replacement with another of like kind and quality, one of the following methods must be applied:
(a)  The insurer (aka insurance company) MAY elect to offer a replacement automobile which is a specific comparison automobile available to the insured, with all applicable taxes, license fees and other fees incident to transfer of evidence of ownership of the automobile paid, at no cost other than any deductible provided in the policy. The insurer may prorate license fees and limit payment to the unused period of the fees. The offer and any rejection of the offer must be documented in the claim file. Translation: IC decides to get you a replacement Blazer plus all fees assoc with transferring into your name + license plate sticker the whole shebang of fees
(b)  The insurer MAY elect to make a cash settlement based upon the actual cost, less any deductible provided in the policy, to purchase a comparable automobile including all applicable taxes, license fees and other fees incident to transfer of evidence of ownership of a comparable automobile. Translation: IC decides to give you money based on how much it will cost you to go buy an equal replacement + all fees. The cost MUST be determined by an evaluation of:
(1) The cost of two or more comparable automobiles in the local market area which are currently available or were available within the most previous 90 days to consumers in the local market area; Replacement cost is determined by at least two Blazers for sale in your area in the last 3 months.
(2) If the cost cannot be determined pursuant to subparagraph (1), the cost of two or more comparable automobiles that are currently available or were available in the most previous 90 days to consumers in areas, both within and without this State, which are geographically proximate to the local market area; or If two Blazers weren't for sale in your are w/in the last 3 months they will look at the crappiest comparable Blazers they can find in the rust belt and use that to determine cost.
(3) If the cost cannot be determined pursuant to subparagraph (1) or (2), two or more quotations OBTAINED BY THE INSURER from two or more licensed dealers located within the local market area. If they can't find 2 comparables anywhere, they check dealer lots.
(c) When a first-party automobile total loss is settled on a basis which deviates from the methods described in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this subsection, the deviation must be supported by documents giving particulars of the condition of the automobile. Any deductions from the cost, including a deduction for salvage, must be measurable, discernible, itemized and specified as to the amount and must be appropriate in amount. The basis for the settlement must be fully explained to the first-party claimant. If the 2-car comparison method doesn't work they have to provide documentary proof laying out specifics as to how they calculated your $8k or $10.5 offer

Soooo it sounds like they have you in limbo with them at (b) and you at (c). They're attempting to use (b)(2) by comparing Blazers that are over 1200 miles away and conveniently in areas that lack inventories of clean pricier examples and avoiding comparables in California, Arizona, Colorado etc. which are arguably much more "geographically proximate to the local market area." With your third party appraiser you are square in the realm of (c) and your appraiser likely gave you documentation that led to and supports his determination.

I would think you could pay a lawyer $100 to send a letter to insurance company explaining your rights, their obligations under the law, and include your appraisers estimate. While you could write this letter yourself, imo it would carry more weight from an attorney because it gives the illusion that if they do not agree you are prepared to sue them and here's your evidence. Basically hiring a lawyer so that you dont have to hire a lawyer.

Got me all worked up!

[busterwivell]

I think Tork made it plain and simple (?) for us to understand.
So, my daughter was driving to work one morning in her 78 Malibu (around 1988 or so) and was hit head-on. She wasn't hurt, other than bruises from her seat belt, but the paramedics transported her to the hospital. The other driver was found at fault, ticketed, and the fun began. They paid the medical stuff right away. They told us they would pay for a rental car for her. Sure, she was 19. The rental companies wouldn't rent to her. I called the insurance company and they said she should drive my car (86 Monte CarloSS) and I should drive a rental. I told them that's why she had a car of her own to drive in the first place. My wife wound up driving her to work and back. Ins co said they would find a couple of comps for sale and determine a settlement amount. It was obvious her car was totalled. Weeks went by. I called and complained, told them wife is transporting her to work.......their response was, are you looking for gas money. Now they have me really mad. They said they couldn't find any comps, so they had no basis for a settlement. I told them my daughter and her boyfriend had found one on a dealer's lot that she liked (a 79 Malibu), and I told them the price. They objected, saying it was too much. I asked how they knew that when they couldn't find any? It became a shouting match. It ended with me giving them my attorney's name and number and I told them if the car wasn't paid for by 5 o'clock, they could deal with him from then on. The dealer called my daughter a couple of hours later and told her to come pick up her car.

[PanelDeland]

Originally Posted by mrtoni

Yep, preparing to get screwed. Adjuster report says comp sales are 7700 in Iowa and 7900 Missouri. Her estimate for repairs is 2400. If it hits about 4500 which it will it will be a total loss. They will pay 8200 for total loss minus salvage price est $200 by her and I can retain it.
She said in litigation there 3rd party neutral computer estimate cannot be challenged i.e. Value is un arguable.

And I have a bridge for sale..... never believe what the ins company that is liable tells you. They are not in the business to make things right, they are in the business to make money and the more they keep the more they make.

[mrtoni]

Or I can have estimate written for just below total threshold. I can then get about 5000 for repairs and not have a salvage title. Waiting to hear from my agent for advice.

[67ChevyRedneck]

$2400??? I just paid 4K for hail damage on my 2015 Z71 and $3200 for a deer hit a few years ago that just caught the back of the cab and the bedside (2000 Silverado.)

There's possibly frame/suspension damage, bumper, bedside, and a lot of labor hours.

Given you were just in Primer, I think I would be OK with the 5K, that should get you back to where it is now?

Those values are crap. You can't find anything less than garbage for under 8-10K here anymore. One as clean as yours would bring 12-15K in this area.

[special-K]

The world puts too much stock in computers. Value is non-arguable? Can't argue with a computer with an inaccurate program that couldn't possibly know actual values of something with so many variables? We know way more than the computer ever could, yet we can't debate it's cast-in-stone incorrectness?

The thing with some of these comments on liability on old vehicles, you realize the insurance industry puts us in a box here. They won't, or most won't, put a full policy on a vehicle beyond a certain age. The only way to get full coverage is with a historic policy. Then you get the best coverage, but you are restricted to only uses they approve. They also require the vehicle to be garaged, so wouldn't be covered out on the street.

[mrtoni]

Back from the body shop. Happy I picked Jackson Farmer (shameless plug). The owner says it's going to be totaled even at 100% of the $8200 value. He assured me of several things. He knows the value is much higher and will reflect that in his estimate/report. The insurance co cannot take possession of it unless I accept their offer. I was concerned because I had a set of original seats and a sandblasted in the back and the hatch is jammed shut. Third, there will be an appeal process with the next in the Allstate food chain. Probably over the phone but he says do my homework with values.
As it sat before the accident, I would value it at 12-15000k. No real rust but non-professional paint job. 3/4 ton axels, rebuilt 402, good top. Ran perfectly and straight down the road.
I will buy it back and either fix it or part it depending on frame damage. He says he cannot get it on the frame wrack without a wrecker.

Thanks to everyone. Any advice is still appreciated.
Matt in Reno

[Blue GMC]

Any updates?

[mrtoni]

So it's at the shop. They estimate damage close to $7000 as axle is damaged. He cannot get it on the lift to measure the frame as he needed to replace both spring packs and get axel in place to even roll it. I estimate it as a 12-15000 blazer so I think it will be under 65% and won't be totaled. The shop owner will also make the case that this is worth more that 8200. I don't get why they spend money on it before it's been approved for repairs.

[PAWS 72]

Even with liability insurance, if you have another vehicle with full coverage, same agent, talk to him about this

[mrtoni]

Update. Allstate, his insurance, has declared my mine totaled. Body shop wanted $5700 for new bedside, axel, spring pack, wheel etc. this exceeded the 65% of the $8200 value. The body guy says do not retain lawyer as it will be "tied up for two years." I've hired an independent appraiser, they won't even look at my comp sales from eBay. Will let you all know soon.

[tsetsaf]

You do not have to accept their "totaled" finding. Their job is to protect their insured from a lawsuit. Figure out your total repair cost versus real market value. Small claims is up to $10k dollars no lawyer needed. Sue the insured.

Judges in small claims are fact based not policy based. Show the pics, show the values, provide the repair cost, and provide full readout of your interactions with the ins company. You will win.

[mrtoni]

Allstate sucks. The total loss officer called today. They value my blazer at $8350. Buy back is $1800. They say it is totaled due to panel replacement. I hired an appraiser who valued it at $13000. This was the adjusters advice and it cost $300. Now they say since I'm the claimant, 3rd party and not the insured, I cannot appeal or arbitrate and my appraisal is no good. They do not look at auctions to establish value so the two comps they found are it. I'm lawyering up I want to avoid the salvage title. In Nevada salvage vehicles cannot be registered unless rebuilt and inspected by dmv shop. Cannot be sold except to dmv approved salvage yards. There are hundreds of salvage vehicles for sale on Craigslist so I don't get the " felony to sell salvage vehicle to private party." There's value even if I buy it for 1800, I'm sure I could sell it for 4000ish or pull 402/t400 axels, sell seats, top, wheels etc to recoup money.

[B Myers]

Originally Posted by mrtoni

Allstate sucks. The total loss officer called today. They value my blazer at $8350. Buy back is $1800. They say it is totaled due to panel replacement. I hired an appraiser who valued it at $13000. This was the adjusters advice and it cost $300. Now they say since I'm the claimant, 3rd party and not the insured, I cannot appeal or arbitrate and my appraisal is no good. They do not look at auctions to establish value so the two comps they found are it. I'm lawyering up I want to avoid the salvage title. In Nevada salvage vehicles cannot be registered unless rebuilt and inspected by dmv shop. Cannot be sold except to dmv approved salvage yards. There are hundreds of salvage vehicles for sale on Craigslist so I don't get the " felony to sell salvage vehicle to private party." There's value even if I buy it for 1800, I'm sure I could sell it for 4000ish or pull 402/t400 axels, sell seats, top, wheels etc to recoup money.

In Illinois you can buy it back if you own it and the title doesn't change, only if it totals and the insurance company takes possession does it require a salvage title. If you buy it back it's not totalled and considered salvage yet. Check it out, it will cost you money but you'll have a clean title.

[midnightrider78]

I applaud you for being able to keep your cool. I hope everything works out for you.

[Bigdav160]

What Mr Myers says. Accepting their offer and keeping your Blazer shouldn't change the status of the title. (unless Nevada does things differently)

I had something similar happen to my '67 Nova. I got rear ended by a kid in a new Mustang. I eventually parted out the car but I got nowhere with offers from his insurance company.

[mrtoni]

So,this is how it was just explained to me. It is Nevada state law that if an insurance claim is over 65% in repairs excluding paint, the vehicle is totaled. The body shop is legally bound by insurance fraud laws to inform the state and insurer. The title will be salvage unless it is rebuilt and inspected and then can have "rebuilt" on title. I asked for,a,payout just under 65% to repair it and keep title clean. They said no that's fraud. I am giving them my title but pretty sure I don't have to the state will deem it salvage and send me a replacement title.

So now I can take the $8350 buy it back for $1800 and part it out (cannot legally sell a salvage vehicle in Nevada). I would have to recoup the $1800 to make it worth it. Seats, radio not original. Rear axle is damaged. Front d44 has auto hubs, even the top has some repair needed. I might buy it for the 402 and tranny and put it in another project

[mrtoni]

Good news. Dept of Insurance says they are full of it. Told me to file complaint. They must negotiate regardless of their policy and might be required to replace my blazer with comparable one.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by mrtoni

Good news. Dept of Insurance says they are full of it. Told me to file complaint. They must negotiate regardless of their policy and might be required to replace my blazer with comparable one.

Yup. You should be "made whole", whether that's this one repaired or a comparable replacement. If they provide a replacement, have someone go over it with a fine toothed comb, as though he is trying to sell you every repair he can. The more eyes the better.

I'm curious. Did the guilty party get charged with hit and run?

[mrtoni]

Well, not sure if he was charged. I'm sure it was dui but his parents answered his door and said he wasn't home and they weren't sure were his girlfriend lives. He's 36. Typical of small town, three weeks later the police report still was not done. I've been out of town and will try again tomorrow.

[Blue GMC]

Any update? Hopefully its in the shop and on the way home

[mrtoni]

Update

Insurance has offered 10500 up from 8200. My appraisal came back at 13500. I'm gonna try and squeeze an extra 1000 out of them so I can buy it back and still net close to 10k. It will have a salvage title so I may part it or sell it or fix it up and get a rebuilt title just not sure if I can do the work myself and have state approve that it is roadworthy. I could have the shop fix it for like 6000-7000 and they would apply for the rebuilt title.

Not sure if parting is worth the trouble. For 1800 buy back, I'd keep the 402/ turbo 400. Other than that I could sell hood fenders, winch bumper, doors, top etc. seats not original.
I bought it for 7500 so I'm torn as I don't think I could find a replacement for 10500. What do you think I could sell it for outright with salvage title?

[68c10airstream]

Mrtoni, ask for proof that states upon issuance of check that they legally now own your vehicle! You own it, you keep it. Ask for the policy that states this situation. One precaution though, if/when you accept a check, ask in advance if you will be 1099'd for a taxable income as you would then be responsible for the taxes on the amount of the check. Ask lots of questions BEFORE hand.

Ask me how i dodged high insurance costs raising kids turning into drivers! Ask me how my wife and i avoided being liable for what my kids do driving! It's easy and doesn't cost a thing, and saves gobs of money!

[Blue GMC]

If you can get the work done for 6772.00 it should put you at 64% and they can't make it a salvage title even more wiggle room if they go up on value 1k more

[mrtoni]

The title issue varies state by state. I've looked into this and spoken to the state and my body guy. It's my blazer and they won't steal it but once it's declared a total loss a new title is issued that says salvage. The question is whether it exceeds the 65% threshold.