A quick look at the Hickey worm gear winch

[dazza]

looks like it will be close, but super cool and clean looking option.

[jeffahart]

Anyone know for positive if the winch brackets mount inside or under the frame rails?

I thought it was going to mount inside the frame and the brackets would set on the frame rail and then I could jockey it around to where it fits with the bumper. No go. I got it up in there but it seems getting both brackets up in there is not going to happen. Plus, I studied the brackets and it looks like I see the frame lines on top of the front bracket and some washer/bolt marring on the bottom. Which would indicate a bottom of the frame mount. If it mounts on the bottom, I need to make a cradle for my jack and get the winch jacked tight to the frame and clamp it up there somehow to figure where to drill mounting holes. The winch is heavy but I got it in there by myself with a jack.

Anyhow, any help appreciated!


Rear bracket on inside of frame, not possible to get the front bracket inside as well. When attached to the winch anyway.

[jeffahart]

Once I got the winch pegged against the frame it was clear it could only be mounted under the frame. I mounted it, here's some pics.

I had to make a cradle to get the winch held up against the frame tightly to evaluate the mounting position. Here's the cradle


Once the winch is held up to the frame tight, it is clear there is only one location it can be mounted. And that is under the frame and with the angle of the rear and front of bracket mounting locations sitting up flush against the frame.


Plus there is only about 3/8 inch between winch motor and core support, so no room to mount any higher.


Mounted with grade 8 bolts.


Here's a pic with the bumper in place. The red line on the bumper is the top of clutch case. The top of cable on drum is 1" below red line. Just to give some perspective where the fairlead will be.

[jeffahart]

Now that I have the winch mounted, I will clean it up and service it. I'm happy with the mounting results.

[dazza]

Hey Jeff, I didn't see your post asking about the mounting until yesterday, I would have said inside the rails but because I still haven't been home to my other computer, I only have one unclear pic of the mounts at the rails. I've decided for now to mount the worm gear in lieu of the sindwinder and just finished.

At first, I mounted it underneath as you did because of the clearance you showed, but I just didn't feel right about not having it rest in the rails. Couldn't get everything to line up with both brackets in the rails although I did get the front in and the rear underneath and it feels solid. The bolts from my hooks are close but it will work.

[dazza]

Also, the manual shows 1/2 pint of oil for both the gearbox and the transfer case. The gear box filled perfectly to the correct level, but the transfer case not. I can barely see the oil which would make it about an inch low, but because I used a half pint like it said, I'm thinking it's because ours are upside down like they mentioned with the gear box. You have the same thing?

Are you planning on replacing bearings/seals?

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by dazza

Also, the manual shows 1/2 pint of oil for both the gearbox and the transfer case. The gear box filled perfectly to the correct level, but the transfer case not. I can barely see the oil which would make it about an inch low, but because I used a half pint like it said, I'm thinking it's because ours are upside down like they mentioned with the gear box. You have the same thing?

Are you planning on replacing bearings/seals?

I pulled the winch apart thinking I was going to clean it up, grease it up, and replace seals(NOT). I had a hell of a time getting the gears out. The rear bearing were blown. A lot of muck and sludge in the transfer case. Lots of rust on clutch side. But the biggest problem was the gear on the motor. That little sucker would not come off. It is in a tight space so I grinded a puller to fit. But still no luck. I soaked it, and tried over the course of a couple days to pull that little gear, with no luck. So, I finally took the pneumatic pickle fork to the back of it. OK, now it's off and the splines on the motor shaft look OK, and the 20 spline motor gear survived. But... since I soaked it and beat the hell out of it, I tested the motor again. It ran two seconds and quit. OK, no big deal I see these motors for sale all over. Well, no, not one with a 10 spline shaft. So now I think I need to figure how to use a smooth shaft motor with the same mating flange configuration and fit a gear with a key on there.

Unless you know where to get a 10 spline motor?

I ordered the bearings off amazon. those are coming today. But I need the motor before I can move forward.

If I would not have jacked my motor I would be assembling this weekend. But hey, all the gears wanted to stay on the shafts. What can you do, they need to be forced off. I guess the jarring from the impact hammer or break free fluid got to it.

[jeffahart]

Also, there was two seals stacked on the motor shaft. I guess maybe to keep the rear seal tight to the motor shaft housing. Did you use two seals?

Here's the two seals.

[dazza]

I don't recall if there were two seals but I replaced all, my pics will tell all and hopefully I will get home to get them this weekend.

I forgot all about pulling that gear, mine too was a pita, many types of pullers tried and was very happy when it did finally pop. Just had a look at another motor I have torn apart from a sidewinder to see if it would work for you, but it has a smooth shaft/keyed.

Probably not any farm supply stores in LA unless maybe you're on the outskirts, but I have one about thirty mins from me and these guys have a wall of i/o shaft, pinions, etc., all in sizes/shapes imaginable. Also electric motor rebuild shops may stock something that will work.

[jeffahart]

dazza,

Your cleaned up winch looks great! I'm going to try to lick this motor thing using a newer MBJ 4407 with a smooth shaft and key. They have a 3" flange like the 4301. I figure if I can get a 20 spline gear on that shaft, then if I ever need a motor again I can just get a 4407, they are about $85. I think the price of a 4301 would make it cheaper to have the original rebuilt. So, I'll know next week if I'm going to be able to use the smooth shaft 4407 or rebuild my 10 spline 4301 or buy a new 10 spline 4301.

Hey, do you have a skid plate too. I'm going to make one once I get the winch running. Bruce sent me the layout.

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by dazza

Also, the manual shows 1/2 pint of oil for both the gearbox and the transfer case. The gear box filled perfectly to the correct level, but the transfer case not. I can barely see the oil which would make it about an inch low, but because I used a half pint like it said, I'm thinking it's because ours are upside down like they mentioned with the gear box. You have the same thing?

Are you planning on replacing bearings/seals?

Also, I forgot to add, I just drained my oil for bench test and just dumped some oil in for the test. The transfer leaked while sitting there a few days. It may have leaked from being overfilled. I noticed in the DC200 manual in the trouble shooting section, when I was perusing for parts descriptions, that overfill will cause leaks. You might dig around and verify the fill levels. I will do the same.

[BLT gmc]

Jeff, It looks like you are doing some good work. I feel bad, I wish it had been in better shape. Bruce
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[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by BLT gmc

Jeff, It looks like you are doing some good work. I feel bad, I wish it had been in better shape. Bruce
Posted via Mobile Device

Don't feel bad at all. It was sitting for a long time and that's probably the main problem of stuck gears and sludge. I take responsibility for the motor. Bearings are cheap, about $15 bucks for two and I paid $25 bucks for the gasket and seal kit. By the time I'm done It won't be too much money. I decided to spend extra on the compact solenoid. Plus, I am learning a lot about the old winches of this design. I can see the general quality of the winch is very robust. So, once I get it cleaned up, It will be a workhorse for sure.

But hey, putting old equipment back into service is always a challenge.

I am still very happy about the winch. You made me a great deal on it, I am grateful.

[dazza]

There's one big problem with all this Jeff... you won't get to have it done this weekend!

Bruce, did you have two of these before you sold one to Jeff? And if so... what else you hiding out there?! hehe

[BLT gmc]

Dazza, i did have one. I bought it from Blazerman in Kansas City, Missouri. Winch only, no acessories. Not long ago i found this one on the internet. It had everthing, except the owners manual. The owner agreed to ship, so i paid to have the acessories shipped. I came to this forum asking for help with a Hickey winch in CA, with the intent of selling it to a board member that was in the area or was willing to pay $$ for shipping. Bruce
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[jeffahart]

Posted via Mobile Device

[dazza]

Originally Posted by jeffahart

Posted via Mobile Device

sure, whatever you think... hehe

[dazza]

ok, all up and in there.

Jeff, not until I was looking at mine today did it hit me that you asked about me having a skid plate... yes I do, not installed yet but there is a side view shot of it in my other post mentioned above. If you need measurements let me know.

I'm back to my main computer so will be having a look through my other photos. I think I may have bearing/seal qty & part #'s too if needed.

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by dazza

sure, whatever you think... hehe

Ya, I tried to post some pics from my cell phone earlier today. My phone was being a jerk. I'll post some next week.

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by dazza

ok, all up and in there.

Jeff, not until I was looking at mine today did it hit me that you asked about me having a skid plate... yes I do, not installed yet but there is a side view shot of it in my other post mentioned above. If you need measurements let me know.

I'm back to my main computer so will be having a look through my other photos. I think I may have bearing/seal qty & part #'s too if needed.

That pic that's in the "other post" shows the front bracket mounted under the bumper. Was that pic from one of your trucks or one of someone else's. I had seen that picture before when I was trying to verify mounting position, and I could not figure the under bumper mount. At least that what it looks like.

The front of your truck looks clean with the fairlead on the bumper.

I got the bearings in the mail yesterday. So, it looks like, so far, all I need is seals, gaskets, and bearings. The bushings looked real good. So, as I clean the parts I can make a decision on the motor and motor gear.

Also, my old wire rope looks great. I pulled the whole line, no kinks or fraying. So I may keep it for a while and hunt for some synthetic later on.

[dazza]

That picture is my truck, same truck/winch just not taken apart, cleaned and rebuilt. It's just a skid plate, mounts at bottom of fairlead, rolls under the winch and goes back to the rear winch cross bracket.

Bad picture (currently looking for another I have) but it's the gray plate at the top left...

['63GENIII]

Hey Jeff, cool read on the Hickey worm gear winch? Looks like you're making real good progress. One question though, did you get your motor issue sorted out? If not, look around for a motor rebuilder. They can rewind the motors, install new brushes, bearings and the like. Being in LA, there should be at least a couple of places. Better than trying to make something work?

[dazza]

Jeff, I found this reminder of my issues with that gear! I think that's the puller that was able to finally pull it off!

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by dazza

Jeff, I found this reminder of my issues with that gear! I think that's the puller that was able to finally pull it off!

Nice puller one of the few configuration of pullers I don't have. But check out my next post where I address 68Gen3 and the motor issue.

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

Hey Jeff, cool read on the Hickey worm gear winch? Looks like you're making real good progress. One question though, did you get your motor issue sorted out? If not, look around for a motor rebuilder. They can rewind the motors, install new brushes, bearings and the like. Being in LA, there should be at least a couple of places. Better than trying to make something work?

The motor is expensive to get rebuilt, as far as quotes I'm getting so far. So, If I get a NOS 10 spline its around $300 and a rebuild is around the same, from my quotes so far. But a smooth shaft motor is $85. So if I spend bucks to keep 10 spline and the motor goes out, I'm back to square one on the over priced 10 spline.

Plus check out the 10 spline, a possible design flaw may be why they ditched it for the smooth shaft, from what I'm looking at now anyway.

In the following pics check out the 10 spline. How do you seal the shaft? Exactly, that's why I think they had two seals stacked, one to keep out most oil and one shoved up against the motor housing to get a bead on the small amount of smooth shaft.

So, I think I will get a smooth shaft motor and figure out how to retrofit for a newer gear for a smooth shaft motor and still use a 3/4" seal on the shaft and get a good seal right at the case.

Plus, the new design is to use a smooth bore gear with a key and set screw, there is a collar on the motor side of the gear that sticks through the transfer case; and the new seal is larger and seals at the gear collar. Again, some room for small leakage as the seal is not made at the shaft and some small amounts of oil could make it between the inner gear bore and the shaft and out to the motor when it's spinning.

So my Idea is to maybe use the old style small seal at the shaft, and retool a new style smooth inner bore gear so the collars stops short of the inner side of the transfer.

I will post more pics when I get the new style smooth inner bore gear, and post if it does or does not work and why. Anyhow If it work's I will have a good cheap solution for anyone in the future.