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#26 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Thanks Rob!! No pressure there!!
![]() ![]() I will say that after reading your thread it made me have to start over and relearn Toe. I think I may owe TR65 an apology about his take on toe. I am still trying to figure it out. I am researching info on the topic. I am still convinced you can't go wrong with an average of the Specific Range but I am having to reassess my beliefs in toe out (negative) vs. toe in (positive) vs. 0 toe. Currently I am pacing the floor, trying to visualize how a rear wheel drive vehicle has a tendency to induce 0 or toe out. I'm processing all the info I have gained on my truck and will have it back on the rack soon. I hope to have some good info soon!
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
I think I should have tilted this "One man's attempt at trying to get a decent alignment out of an old truck"
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#28 |
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Oh yeah. It was pointed out to me that all my specs are in degrees and minutes. I will be posting more sheets in straight degrees and in fractional toe. My reason for adding so many printouts and alignment screens is so that you can see them and study them so that when you examine a printout later you will have practice at looking at them and be able to focus. Kinda like sparring before the big fight.
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#29 |
Grandpa in the rustmobile...
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Spokane WA/Viola TN
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Wow man your really putting the time thought into this!!
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John Goose-1968 C10 355,9.32-1CR, Vortec Heads ,262 voodoo, 3.73:1 3OTT (HS ride/beater/farm truck) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=317684 Grams 53-1953 Chevrolet Belair http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post4327784 1969 Chevy C10 Shortbed 4.5/6?" Frame off resto http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=548136 1999 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 |
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#30 | |
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Quote:
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#31 |
At the body shop.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Land of fruits and nuts.
Posts: 5,218
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
My 73 is lowered by cutting two coils. And longer bolts to get the camber decent. 1/2° positive.
and flipped out back. And have found laying 6° and. 6 1/4° of caster. And a 1/16th of toe has made for nice mannered good tire wearing alingment. ill have see if the alingment sheet made it home. im curious to your thoughts on this? Posted via Mobile Device
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#32 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Double check that camber, I'd like to see it -.5º not positive. The caster is fine. 1/16th per side is fine. (1/16th = .12º = 07')
I'd love to see pics of the alignment at the upper bolts and specs on your ride height. Thanks for sharing!
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#33 |
At the body shop.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Land of fruits and nuts.
Posts: 5,218
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Did it positive because of the wild camber gain with out spindles.
Ill dig up a pic of upper A-arm. Posted via Mobile Device
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#34 |
At the body shop.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Land of fruits and nuts.
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
![]() Posted via Mobile Device
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" That didnt make it any newer " " Dont antique the equipment " |
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#35 |
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
KQQL IT,
I'd love to see what the alignment looked like if all the rear washers(?) removed, an equal amount removed from the front and the toe reset to your spec.
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#36 |
At the body shop.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Land of fruits and nuts.
Posts: 5,218
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Major negative camber.
And yeah washers cant fall out. those are 4" bolts Posted via Mobile Device
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#37 |
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Braselton, GA
Posts: 245
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
I am replacing both upper & lower control arm shafts & bushings. I am thinking of turning the shafts to move the lower control foward and the upper control arm rearward. The idea is to get as much caster as possible. Any thoughts on this?
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#38 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
I first saw this modification in Rob McGregor's Make it Handle thread (post 354) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=419251&page=9
I can't argue with it from what I've seen. As long as done correctly and correct clearance is maintained, its good. I was thinking about doing it myself. The upper would only have to be shimmed to correct camber (ok maybe a little to equalize caster). I think it is a good low buck way to dial in a better alignment. My only question, what effect does it have on the tie rod/steering arm arch when the arm is moved? I don't think it would make much difference but I am curious.
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Valley Center KS
Posts: 3,525
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
I have been reading/researching alignment specs and doing alignments yourself at home (tape measure and string style). Any instructions on doing this? If not, when I get to it, I'll post up my "how to".
I also created a handy dandy spreadsheet that will calculate all of the angles for you, if you measure from your string line to the wheel lip (in mm) that I'll cover in my write up as well. |
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#40 |
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Braselton, GA
Posts: 245
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
I like the ball joint mod, but I have 15" wheels right now so it wouldnt work for me. I am just thinking while I have the arms in my hand, I might just try to get a little extra caster.
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#41 | |
A guy with a truck
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Germany, for now
Posts: 5,920
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Quote:
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-Chris Instagram _elgringoloco_ '70 Short-Wide How to: Ruin a perfectly good C10 ‘70 Blazer ConversionHow To: Ruin a Perfectly Good 4wd '72 Highlander How To: Ruin a Perfectly Good K/5 (SOLD) '72 Blazer 2WD How to: Ruin a perfectly good Blazer (SOLD) '05 Yukon Daily Driven (not so stock) Yukon (SOLD) ‘07 Yukon Denali (daily) Members met list: SCOTI, darkhorse970, 67cheby, 67cheby'sGirl, klmore, porterbuilt, n2billet, Fastrucken, classicchev, Col Clank, GSFMECH, HuggerCST, Spray-Bomb, BACKYARD88, 5150, fine69, fatbass, smbrouss70, 65StreetCruiser, GAc10boy |
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#42 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Valley Center KS
Posts: 3,525
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Quote:
This is funny: my Ipod touch has a digital level in it that reads out in degrees. You can calibrate it, so I figure that is going to be acurate enough for measuring the camber. |
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#43 |
A guy with a truck
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Germany, for now
Posts: 5,920
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
That actually sounds like a good idea
Posted via Mobile Device
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-Chris Instagram _elgringoloco_ '70 Short-Wide How to: Ruin a perfectly good C10 ‘70 Blazer ConversionHow To: Ruin a Perfectly Good 4wd '72 Highlander How To: Ruin a Perfectly Good K/5 (SOLD) '72 Blazer 2WD How to: Ruin a perfectly good Blazer (SOLD) '05 Yukon Daily Driven (not so stock) Yukon (SOLD) ‘07 Yukon Denali (daily) Members met list: SCOTI, darkhorse970, 67cheby, 67cheby'sGirl, klmore, porterbuilt, n2billet, Fastrucken, classicchev, Col Clank, GSFMECH, HuggerCST, Spray-Bomb, BACKYARD88, 5150, fine69, fatbass, smbrouss70, 65StreetCruiser, GAc10boy |
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#44 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Valley Center KS
Posts: 3,525
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Quote:
If not, maybe I should develop one and make millions. Not that I know how to make an ipod/iphone apps nor would I make millions.....oh well....free idea for someone. |
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#45 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
Posts: 2,934
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Quote:
As far as tools the toe and caster/camber gauges are good. You can one up that with alignment tables, steering and brake locks and a wheel leveler. When doing a home brewed alignment don't forget to center and lock down the steering wheel so its on-center when the job is complete. Nothins gonna rain on your parade like having your fresh alignment tracking straight and true only to have that pretty steering wheel pointing at 10 or 2! As far as string alignments go the only thing that they have in common that I DO NOT LIKE is that they are two wheel alignments. If it were me I'd find the centerline of the chassis and base my toe settings off that.
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#46 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#47 |
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Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
BMERDOC, hey, can you you explain Thrust angles and rear steer, how about rear camber and toe (I know, this is for IRS cars) I am getting a lot of questions about this, and you are probably better versed to answer. Thanks.
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#48 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Valley Center KS
Posts: 3,525
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Quote:
I am planning on measuring the thrust angle of the rear wheels too, but its gonna kinda be a pain. |
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#49 |
A guy with a truck
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Germany, for now
Posts: 5,920
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Harbor Freight has tables, but you can use a couple of pieces of cheap tile and some bearing grease...
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-Chris Instagram _elgringoloco_ '70 Short-Wide How to: Ruin a perfectly good C10 ‘70 Blazer ConversionHow To: Ruin a Perfectly Good 4wd '72 Highlander How To: Ruin a Perfectly Good K/5 (SOLD) '72 Blazer 2WD How to: Ruin a perfectly good Blazer (SOLD) '05 Yukon Daily Driven (not so stock) Yukon (SOLD) ‘07 Yukon Denali (daily) Members met list: SCOTI, darkhorse970, 67cheby, 67cheby'sGirl, klmore, porterbuilt, n2billet, Fastrucken, classicchev, Col Clank, GSFMECH, HuggerCST, Spray-Bomb, BACKYARD88, 5150, fine69, fatbass, smbrouss70, 65StreetCruiser, GAc10boy |
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#50 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
Posts: 2,934
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Re: 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments
Per Rob's request:
I'll try to make this simple. Thrust angle is the relationship between the rear axle and the centerline of the chassis. As I had stated before, Thrust should be zero. If the centerline of the axle is 90* to the centerline of the chassis it will be zero. Just like the front toe, toe out is negative and toe in is positive. If the thrust angle points to the left of the chassis centerline the thrust angle is negative, to the right, positive. This angle is the average of the two rear toe angles which is not to be confused with total toe which is, well, the sum of the two toe angles. If the thrust angle is negative the truck will want to rear steer to the left causing the truck to want to go right. You would have to add constant left hand input causing the "dog tracking" look. Of course, the opposite would be true if the thrust angle were positive. Camber can have an effect on tracking too. No matter wether its front or rear. Lets stick with rear camber. A vehicle will tend to steer toward the more vertical or positive cambered tire. Lets try a small quiz...if my left rear camber is 0* and my right rear is negative .75* which way would the rear of the car wanna steer?.... .... .... If you said left then you are correct. It would want to rear steer left and you would have to steer left to cancel it out. Both camber angles must closely match so as to not cause a "pull" or "drift". Caster has NO affect on the rear axle...unless, in the off chance, you have a four wheel steer car. If that was the case it would closely follow the rules of front caster. Although I won't go into 4W steer it did remind me of a good point. Rear angles have a greater effect on how a vehicle tracks. Anyone who has driven a forklift knows they can be very twitchy.
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