If you like destruction -

[jeh]

I feel your pain, I'm in the same boat!!! Fresh BB427, bored, Kieth Black Pistons, Trick Flow alum heads, roller cam, Air Gap intake, etc, etc. Long story short, 515 miles metallic sheen in oil and 9 pounds oil pressure at idle

[cableguy0]

Originally Posted by jeh

I feel your pain, I'm in the same boat!!! Fresh BB427, bored, Kieth Black Pistons, Trick Flow alum heads, roller cam, Air Gap intake, etc, etc. Long story short, 515 miles metallic sheen in oil and 9 pounds oil pressure at idle

OUCH. That sounds a lot like a cam going flat but I see you have a roller. Whatever happened is due to the way it was put together to happen that quickly. If its bearings I would suspect clearances were badly off.

[jeh]

Originally Posted by cableguy0

OUCH. That sounds a lot like a cam going flat but I see you have a roller. Whatever happened is due to the way it was put together to happen that quickly. If its bearings I would suspect clearances were badly off.

I took it to a more "reputable" machine shop after we tore it down, let me back up here a minute, during tear down we noticed the main bearings were scuffed some on the top side some on the bottom side. Then took it to the machine shop to check the line bore, now we found the problem, apparently the "other" shop was having some in house personal issues and the quality of work wasn't up to standards. After a phone call to them to discuss the line bore issue it still ended up being "my" problem. In the mean time they got the block corrected just waiting on the results of the crank, still may have to put a new crank in it.

[cableguy0]

Originally Posted by jeh

I took it to a more "reputable" machine shop after we tore it down, let me back up here a minute, during tear down we noticed the main bearings were scuffed some on the top side some on the bottom side. Then took it to the machine shop to check the line bore, now we found the problem, apparently the "other" shop was having some in house personal issues and the quality of work wasn't up to standards. After a phone call to them to discuss the line bore issue it still ended up being "my" problem. In the mean time they got the block corrected just waiting on the results of the crank, still may have to put a new crank in it.

I have been the person delivering the bad news more times than I ever wanted to. Its amazing how many shops do garbage work. It also reminds me why so many people don't trust shops or mechanics. I hate people that do sh!t work and I hate it even more when they just dismiss it as no big deal. If you take someones money in exchange for your work. Your work should be at least worth the money if not worth more. Often the places that shouldn't even be able to charge for their junk are the ones that overcharge and the guys that go above and beyond don't get compensated for everything they do. I guess it doesn't actually pay to be honest. I sleep ok at night though.

[BossHogg69]

Well, I got the heads off, and I'm actually pretty surprised. The #1 intake snapped off and holed the piston, and slaughtered the cylinder. I can't believe the shortblock held together. I was wrong, and kinda happy about it. Cam, lifters, rockers, springs, retainers, etc are all cherry. Thank goodness, since I had quite a few $ tied up in it. Crank & rods and 7 pistons may be salvageable, but its no big deal either way. The cylinder head on the drivers (odd) side is toast. Some metal from #1 made it to #7 and cracked the head.

I'm open to any ideas or experiences with a valve breaking off like this. Enjoy the pics of carnage. I'll also include the pics from my earlier post that I couldn't get the upload last night.

First up the Derale junk... And no, nothing ever hit the fans. They cracked right on the parting line in the plastic where the braces make a twist to meet the hub. Looks like a design issue.

[BossHogg69]

When I saw this, I really thought it was the piston that came unhooked and smoked the valve.

Latched on to her, (pucker!!!), and she's out.

[BossHogg69]

Now for the destruction!

#1 chamber and cylinder

[BossHogg69]

#7 chamber and cylinder. Was full of bits from #1.

Impression on the cylinder head and piston match that big chunk of valve laying in the bore.

[BossHogg69]

Shop looks like a bomb went off. I guess it kinda did...

Truck looks pretty sad with no 'motor'vation.

Me next to my fresh 'kill' with my weapon of choice - Matco 3/8" drive mini impact gun - the lil dude has been with me for over 16 years and still works like new. If he can't get it, my Ingersoll Rand 'Titanium' 1/2" drive will definitely do it.

[GRX]

Originally Posted by BossHogg69

I'm open to any ideas or experiences with a valve breaking off like this. Enjoy the pics of carnage.

Ouch. Seeing things like this is never enjoyable. Far as ideas and experiences go ... that type of break is not that uncommon really. Have seen this more times than I can remember.

May have missed it somewhere - perhaps another thread. Are these stock valves?

Stock valves are two piece. The head is force welded to the stem. Right about where that gave way. Which is why I have always been a big advocate for quality one piece valves. Especially in a performance build. Relying on stock units with countless cycles on them is asking for trouble.

[BossHogg69]

The heads are Edelbrock RPM Marine oval ports - the valves are 'stock' to them. 2.25" one pc stainless intakes, 1.89" one pc Inconel exhausts.

[GRX]

I see. Do those valve guides have c-clips on top? If so how does it look in the bad cylinder?

[Ta12sec]

Same failure I had in my story d**t was kind enough to replace one head when the m****y valve did that.

[storm9c1]

Oh man. What a mess. Such a small part causing so much carnage. I'm worried your crank/bearings might be damaged from being beat up by the stresses of that event or even the metal bits. Check it for scuffing. I definitely wouldn't trust the connecting rod or pin in that cylinder. But the more you can salvage the better I guess.

As for the fan, yeah, welcome to the world of plastic junk these days. Even GM factory fans have been bitten by this. The Pontiac G8 and Chevy Caprice PPV fans have a tendency to fail like that, eventually shattering the blade and throwing bits into the radiator, poking a hole in it! People talk about it on the forums (and I can't remember if there is a TSB for it). I'll take the old fashioned bulletproof metal factory fans any day for the few HP the electric fans save. I've had too many failures like yours and burned up wiring harnesses, failed relays, etc. Factory clutch fan goes back on my builds. Then again, I don't have any high-rev applications either.

[jeh]

Hey Adam, your probably not going to need that serpentine front runner system now are you!!!! LOL It sucks to have all the time and $$$$ invested in a motor and have this happen, I'm still back and forth with my BB or go Ls

[cg285]

btw you took the engine out incorrectly. do a search on this site and you will see that you have to take all the sheet metal off first :-)

[BossHogg69]

Originally Posted by cg285

btw you took the engine out incorrectly. do a search on this site and you will see that you have to take all the sheet metal off first :-)

I was terrified that I was going to scratch it all to , but I took my time and didn't drink any beer during this operation! The front sheetmetal was such a bear to get lined up right that I knew I'd beat it up more trying to take it off and put it back on, so I just pulled her heart our as she sat.

Now it's just a waiting game until my 532 is finished, probably 8-10 weeks. I'll be back to burning rubber and banging gears this summer.

I did call Derale about the fan issue and as expected, they 'have never heard of or seen this before', so I offered to send the guy the pics, of course he declined my offer, but was happy to give me the part number so I could buy a $130 replacement fan...

[cg285]

i don't pull the hood and i don't scratch anything :-)
i would if i pulled the sheet metal

[BossHogg69]

Originally Posted by cg285

i don't pull the hood and i don't scratch anything :-)
i would if i pulled the sheet metal

I've seen a couple pics on the site of guys pulling small blocks with the hood on. Pulling a BB with a scattershield bolted on the back might have been a little 'snug' with the hood on, but I'm sure stranger things have happened.

[jeh]

Originally Posted by BossHogg69

I've seen a couple pics on the site of guys pulling small blocks with the hood on. Pulling a BB with a scattershield bolted on the back might have been a little 'snug' with the hood on, but I'm sure stranger things have happened.

I had the same thoughts as you with taking sheetmetal off, I was afraid of more damage plus the whole thought of lining it back up. I pulled my BB out a month or so ago with just taking the hood off. Good luck on your next build.

[BossHogg69]

Originally Posted by jeh

I had the same thoughts as you with taking sheetmetal off, I was afraid of more damage plus the whole thought of lining it back up. I pulled my BB out a month or so ago with just taking the hood off. Good luck on your next build.

I'm subscribed to your build thread, so I'll be following along as you get yours back on the road.

As soon as the ball really starts rolling on the 532 that I'm having built, I'll post up pics and detailed info. All the short block stuff has been ordered, so I'll start a new thread with the engine/powertrain changes - I'll be using a RAM 'Force' 10.5" dual disc clutch with a modified TKO-600.

Also, I don't know if there is any chance the driver's side head from the 468" can be repaired? Does anyone have any experience with an aluminum head getting clobbered like that and having it fixed?

[jeh]

Originally Posted by BossHogg69

I'm subscribed to your build thread, so I'll be following along as you get yours back on the road.

As soon as the ball really starts rolling on the 532 that I'm having built, I'll post up pics and detailed info. All the short block stuff has been ordered, so I'll start a new thread with the engine/powertrain changes - I'll be using a RAM 'Force' 10.5" dual disc clutch with a modified TKO-600.

Also, I don't know if there is any chance the driver's side head from the 468" can be repaired? Does anyone have any experience with an aluminum head getting clobbered like that and having it fixed?

I don't know about fixing the head, there are a lot of skilled individuals out there that can do some amazing work. As far as me getting back on the road, I've been bouncing back and forth between Ls swap and building mine back. I don't know if it's a sign but the machine shop called today and said my block and crank was done, so I should probably just take my rods and pistons up to them to get balanced

[chevybuldr]

The head can be fixed. A good machine shop that knows how to weld can fix it. The heads are Edelbrock? Did you bolt them on right out of the box? They are notorious for having tight guides, valves assembled with no oil on them, and installed spring heights way off. Looking at your picture of the valve stem stuck in the guide, it looks like the stem is blue from heat. Again that is just from the picture. If that is true then that would tell me that the valve was starting to gall from that above reasons. If this is true I think it hung a valve open and smacked a piston. the 2 piece valve snapped off and left you with the mess you have there. Thats what I see from the pictures.

[BossHogg69]

Yes, they are Edelbrock RPM oval port Marine heads, but not quite bolted on out of the box though. The marine heads don't come with valve springs. They had been ported, put on a flowbench (so I could get the cam spec'd to the heads) reassembled with Crower hardware (spings, retainers, locks) but re used the valves that came with the heads. The work on the heads was done at a shop, so I did not personally check the valves/guides. Once I get some more time, I'll disassemble the heads and try get a better look at the valve and the guide.

[chevybuldr]

Well that is a good thing then. That means that they were looked at and assembled with care (we hope). You made a good choice going that route.