Classic Muscle or Modern Power?

[special-K]

I have nothing against LS engines. If I felt any of my trucks needed one I would put one in. I look back over the last 45 years combined with my experiences today and just don't see the need. Most guys with the "Gotta have an LS syndrome" are just following the herd. It seems some bought one of these trucks just to have something to put an LS in. They have never experienced these trucks any other way. If I drove mine daily then gas mileage would become a concern. With the little most drive these trucks the effort to modernize seems a waste and a good way to kill a good old truck. I might do a swap, I might modify a frame, I might do a lot of things to a truck. But I won't buy any that someone else did.

For me, classic truck = classic power. Trucks that come with the LS engines are nice. If I want that modern stuff I'll get modern stuff.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by Malo83

Here in Cali with my 83 the only legal upgrade is the E-Rod LS3 6.2, so for me LS Power is in my future.

Any engine dated newer than the truck is legal if you use all the emission parts that , that engine had.. an 8.1 bbc swap is legal

[cericd]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

I like the plain ole 350 it came with paired with Quadrajet like it came with, both rebuilt to work with modern gas. Minor upgrades such as HEI and electric choke.

Just curious, what does one do to rebuild an old 350 to make it compatible with modern gas? I know that carbs get rebuilt with modern gaskets but I would like to know what changes are made to an engine.

[DBK81]

Some great input an opinions, like someone said we aren't all going to like or want the same things, and that's what makes this world such a great and interesting place. I love seeing what people can do, from a old school BBC with a stacked up supercharger to a modern V6 with twin turbo's and expert fuel mapping, it's amazing to see how diverse this platform that is the C10 can be. I'm happy I am part of the crew and get to enjoy my truck with my sons.

[Z10]

Make mine old school with a twist. ZZ4, 700r4, and F.I.R.S.T. TPI fuel injection. Throw in a modern cruise control and a retrosound bluetooth radio and some A/C and you've got a great dailey driver.

[72blu]

Ive had experience with both LS and carb setups. I had an all original 2bbl 305 in a 78 C10 that ran like a watch. Never ticked, leaked, or gave me any memorable issues. In the case of that truck it would pain me to pull that motor because of just how well it ran without any modifications. On the other hand the 250 CUI engine in my 72 c10 developed a lifter tick and rather then spend money to fix it I went LS. Probably one of the best decisions I could have made as it runs/starts/cruises like a modern day truck. There are arguments for both sides but I believe that you are far better off, should a problem arise, investing in LS rather then repairing a carb setup.

[DBK81]

Originally Posted by Z10

Make mine old school with a twist. ZZ4, 700r4, and F.I.R.S.T. TPI fuel injection. Throw in a modern cruise control and a retrosound bluetooth radio and some A/C and you've got a great dailey driver.

Very nice setup, I think I would just have a hard time coughing up the money for the FIRST system, when I could probably get a full LS system, sell my ZZ4 and have less money into it than the EFI system would cost.

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by cericd

Just curious, what does one do to rebuild an old 350 to make it compatible with modern gas? I know that carbs get rebuilt with modern gaskets but I would like to know what changes are made to an engine.

mostly just hardened valveseats in the heads for unleaded gas. Ethanol is another story but it can generally be avoided.

[cericd]

Originally Posted by NC_John

mostly just hardened valveseats in the heads for unleaded gas. Ethanol is another story but it can generally be avoided.

Thanks for the response NC_John. Unfortunately, here in the Houston area Ethanol is a mandatory thing. Not sure what to do about that.

[yuccales]

I'm so old school. When my dwell meter breaks, I might go to HEI.

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by cericd

Thanks for the response NC_John. Unfortunately, here in the Houston area Ethanol is a mandatory thing. Not sure what to do about that.

Check here- http://www.pure-gas.org/

If you have to buy ethanol fuel just use a stabilizer. Don't keep it in the tank too long (longer term storage messes it up).

Fuel lines and carb seals/gaskets are all I would be concerned about as far as material compatibility.

I avoided it like the plague with my Harley (big motor) and the SBC I just pulled from the truck. With the new LS going it, it'll be less of a concern (of course still adding stabilizer when it will sit).

[pdawg]

Hey Sweet67. I've got a FITech on a ZZ383 crate engine, but still haven't been able to get it set right. Are you running the evap. canister on yours? Would you be willing to share some screen shots of your tuning screens to help me out? I'm just waiting for them to sweep the streets here & the weather to warm up a bit before I put her back on the street for the season.Many thanks!

[Alex V.]

I don't knock the merits of the LS engines, but I don't think the old Gen I and Gen IV's are nearly as inferior as a lot of people would like to think and the number of space-ship LS's finding their way under the hoods of our trucks is depressing to me. Flat-tappet, smog-headed engines have their negatives, but the Vortec 350/454 was a darned fine engine IMHO. If I didn't want to keep it basically 100% original I'd consider building a Vortec 327 (Vortec top end and roller cam on a 3.25" stroke and a good small 4 bbl. carb.) for my Suburban - which I may do yet. All the refined bits (sans induction system) of a 90's truck engine with the slightly lighter appetite and authenticity of still being a 327.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by yuccales

I'm so old school. When my dwell meter breaks, I might go to HEI.

You know the cardboard from a pack of matches is very close to the ideal dwell angle, so don't toss those points yet even if the meter breaks! :-)

I actually have both setups. I have a completely bone-stock 402 Q-jet in my truck and an LS3 eRod in my 69 Camaro.

Both run well. The LS has slightly better cold-start manners, but I've got the 402 pretty well dialed in and it has all the proper equipment. I think a lot of the reason people lean towrards the LS is because they run them as intended, whereas the old school motors wind up with misadjusted chokes, open filter air cleaners, no heat riser, and so on... then the driveability suffers and people crave that "new engine" reliability and driveability.

Set up properly, both are good. The LS is a better platform, but let's be realistic... they had 40 years to think about it! No shame in progress.

[Spullar]

Originally Posted by 72blu

Ive had experience with both LS and carb setups. I had an all original 2bbl 305 in a 78 C10 that ran like a watch. Never ticked, leaked, or gave me any memorable issues. In the case of that truck it would pain me to pull that motor because of just how well it ran without any modifications. On the other hand the 250 CUI engine in my 72 c10 developed a lifter tick and rather then spend money to fix it I went LS. Probably one of the best decisions I could have made as it runs/starts/cruises like a modern day truck. There are arguments for both sides but I believe that you are far better off, should a problem arise, investing in LS rather then repairing a carb setup.

Exactly this!

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by DBK81

I'm not sure where my stance is on the above question, currently in my '72 I have a ZZ4 350 fueled by a Edelbrock double pumper 750, backed by a TH400, it's great combo and allot of fun for Sunday cruising and around the City. But there is something to be said about the modern fuel injected LS power plants and 5 speed transmissions.

So where do you stand? Classic Carb'd muscle, or Modern LS Power? Or are you somewhere different all together?

I'm just curious when Edelbrock made a double pumper carb?



Gary

[NC_John]

1.5 hp/cubic inch on an easily streetable LS motor with crazy reliability and decent gas mileage is hard to beat. Try doing that with a gen 1 small block!

[StoningtonQB]

Originally Posted by Z10

Make mine old school with a twist. ZZ4, 700r4, and F.I.R.S.T. TPI fuel injection. Throw in a modern cruise control and a retrosound bluetooth radio and some A/C and you've got a great dailey driver.

I've learned the hard way that HEI and Retrosound bluetooth radios are not exactly a match made in heaven. Maybe better luck with a ZZ4 and distributorless ignition?

[DBK81]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

I'm just curious when Edelbrock made a double pumper carb?



Gary

I have no idea what you're talking about, I never wrote such jibberish

[custom10nut]

Lately I've been on a nostalgia kick.
I'm seriously looking into building another old Skool Small Block, like I did about 35 years ago.
327 or 350, 2.02/1.60 HP heads, 350 hp/327 cam, 10:1 flat top Pistons, 4x2 intake with four Strombergs, and a Muncie 4 speed to back it up.
I haven't decided what to put it in, but it'll look cool being trailered to the strip to play.
Dreamin

[Jrainman]

Almost one year ago , I bought a 68 swb for a daily driver being my 69 project has been going on to long .

The 68 came with a gen 1 350 pulled from a 81 chevy van , milege was unknown , I drive it almost 200 miles every single day , and at most times I am driving at 70 mph and above . I know have put on 49,200 hard driving miles in less then one Year, and this little under powered 180 hp 350 is still going strong.


When the engine finaly gives in I will be updating to a new generation 350 but Not the LS I just cant justify the insane amount of money just to make the install happen after buying a LS engine. So I have opted to go with a vortec 350 engine (L31) with a few upgrades ,I have seen vortecs with well over 250k on them and with out the thousands and thousands of dollars involved in Ls conversion cost. I could buy another truck for what it cost to buy a LS engine and install cost

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by custom10nut

Lately I've been on a nostalgia kick.
I'm seriously looking into building another old Skool Small Block, like I did about 35 years ago.
327 or 350, 2.02/1.60 HP heads, 350 hp/327 cam, 10:1 flat top Pistons, 4x2 intake with four Strombergs, and a Muncie 4 speed to back it up.
I haven't decided what to put it in, but it'll look cool being trailered to the strip to play.
Dreamin

Another cool induction system would be an old tri-power manifold with the holes hogged out to fit 3 truck 2-bbl carbs on it. I've only ever seen one (maybe there is a reason?).

[i82much]

Originally Posted by NC_John

1.5 hp/cubic inch on an easily streetable LS motor with crazy reliability and decent gas mileage is hard to beat. Try doing that with a gen 1 small block!

I can only assume you are comparing a fuel injected LS engine to a carbureted gen 1.

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by i82much

I can only assume you are comparing a fuel injected LS engine to a carbureted gen 1.

Absolutely- GM spent millions of dollars developing the pcm and control strategies. That is part of the beauty of the engine.

I EFI'd my small block and it was worlds better than the carb but still.....

[garyd1961]

Originally Posted by Alex V.

I don't knock the merits of the LS engines, but I don't think the old Gen I and Gen IV's are nearly as inferior as a lot of people would like to think and the number of space-ship LS's finding their way under the hoods of our trucks is depressing to me. Flat-tappet, smog-headed engines have their negatives, but the Vortec 350/454 was a darned fine engine IMHO. If I didn't want to keep it basically 100% original I'd consider building a Vortec 327 (Vortec top end and roller cam on a 3.25" stroke and a good small 4 bbl. carb.) for my Suburban - which I may do yet. All the refined bits (sans induction system) of a 90's truck engine with the slightly lighter appetite and authenticity of still being a 327.

The vortec 350 is a nice match for these trucks. You get to keep the old school look but with a more modern engine that out performs the original motors in power, fuel mileage, and longevity.