Urgent, need opinions on my new crate engine

[EvanSchraub]

I have a 1993 Chevy 350 in mine it is great for me because I can really do a lot of stupid teenager stuff but I understand that more experienced drivers what something faster. My friend has a 400 in his and he bought it from a guy who was hoping toaje a drag truck out of it so it really depends on you. It might be worth the extra to get a 400

[Coley]

That engine is better suited for a lighter vehicle,....particularly a car. The specs say that it is not recommended for anything over a 6000lb GVW...and would definitely include not being suitable for a 3/4 ton.
Your C20 (3/4 ton) definitely exceeds that 6000lb GVW capability. That said, I think you might be surprised to learn that your 3/4 ton is probably over 4500lbs in its weight. I very highly recommend you run it over a scale somewhere to check and confirm this....you might be surprised.
Many people misunderstand the 'base listed weight' as the weight of their truck. The base weight is usually the base engine (6 cylinder?), standard trans, no power steering, etc, etc.
As an example my 72' 1/2 ton is just slightly over 4000 lbs and it doesn't have anything near as heavy as your running gear, 3/4ton frame, bigger tires, springs, etc. It does has ps/pb/350/a-c...and all this adds weight.
You might be better off, as many have recommended, to get the 260hp and do some bolt on upgrades to get an engine better suited for your truck weight.
My two bits.
Coley

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Coley

That engine is better suited for a lighter vehicle,....particularly a car. The specs say that it is not recommended for anything over a 6000lb GVW...and would definitely include not being suitable for a 3/4 ton.
Your C20 (3/4 ton) definitely exceeds that 6000lb GVW capability. That said, I think you might be surprised to learn that your 3/4 ton is probably over 4500lbs in its weight. I very highly recommend you run it over a scale somewhere to check and confirm this....you might be surprised.
Many people misunderstand the 'base listed weight' as the weight of their truck. The base weight is usually the base engine (6 cylinder?), standard trans, no power steering, etc, etc.
As an example my 72' 1/2 ton is just slightly over 4000 lbs and it doesn't have anything near as heavy as your running gear, 3/4ton frame, bigger tires, springs, etc. It does has ps/pb/350/a-c...and all this adds weight.
You might be better off, as many have recommended, to get the 260hp and do some bolt on upgrades to get an engine better suited for your truck weight.
My two bits.
Coley

Well said.

[litew8]

You can't go wrong with more HP. If you're that concerned, I'd reject it and get the larger. Doesn't sound like a big deal to reject it and order another if they ensured you that you won't be charged a restocking fee or whatnot. Stock equivalent would be replacing it with the same engine. I'm sure GM engineered the truck to work as designed for many applications.

[Vintage Windmills]

Originally Posted by litew8

You can't go wrong with more HP. .

Except when lowend torque has been compromised for more high end horsepower.

[djgebert]

I am not sure where people get these massive weight numbers for some of their trucks that I frequently hear, they must have some crazy heavy stuff mounted on them. These trucks are not that big. I have a 2003 Silverado and a 2014 Silverado and they weigh mountains more than my 71'. I had a 1971 Chevelle SS sitting side by side in the garage with my 71' shortbed for several years and the truck was several inches shorter than the car. (They are longer than a Camaro and shorter than a Chevelle). I weighed my truck at a local scale when I was having a stall converter made and it came in at 3312 lbs with a 350/350 turbo without me in the truck. I have no idea what the full size trucks weigh, but I checked mine so I am positive about it. 290 HP should be more than enough for you as a daily driver/cruiser and should have plenty of power for towing and hauling normal loads(if your truck is not retired). Now if you are looking to smoke the tires at 20 mph you probably better keep on shopping. (Oh and just to clarify my truck had a fiberglass rear roll pan and aluminum rims when weighed so I imagine those items alone shaved off at least 100 lbs)

[67ChevyRedneck]

Per a 1977 issue of N.A.D.A Used Car Guide:-

1972 Ship Weight

C10 - Pickup Stepside 6/12' ..........................3560
" " FleetSide 6 1/2' ........................3630
" " Stepside 8' ..............................3640
" " Fleetside 8' ............................. 3720
C20 - " " Stepside 8' ..............................3940
" " Fleetside 8' ..............................4030
" " Longhorn 8 1/2' .........................3950

The ship weight
is defined as the shipping weight less fuel, coolant and lubricants.
weights per gallon ( lbs per gallon) fuel - 6; oil - 7; water 8.
There appears to be an error as to the Longhorn weight; should be heavier than shown...

That's because straight from GM the lightest truck "shipped" was a shortbed stepside at 3,560 lbs. That's with no fuel, coolant, or lubricants. Those numbers were also for base model, 6 cyl, 3spd, no rear bumper, no spare trucks. You starting adding a V8, auto, rear bumper, a/c, etc and the weight creeps up. My 67 stepside rolled across the scales years ago around 3,900 lbs after subtracting my weight. That's with a V8, 700R, A/C, PDB...

[djgebert]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

That's because straight from GM the lightest truck "shipped" was a shortbed stepside at 3,560 lbs. That's with no fuel, coolant, or lubricants. Those numbers were also for base model, 6 cyl, 3spd, no rear bumper, no spare trucks. You starting adding a V8, auto, rear bumper, a/c, etc and the weight creeps up. My 67 stepside rolled across the scales years ago around 3,900 lbs after subtracting my weight. That's with a V8, 700R, A/C, PDB...

You know I am sitting here looking at those weights and what my truck weighed in at and it had me confused why mine would be so much lighter. But when I started to think about it more it all makes sense. When I weighed my truck it had no PS, no PB, no AC, Aluminum heads and intake, headers, aluminum driveshaft, aluminum radiator, no heater core, fiberglass roll pan instead of bumper, aluminum wheels and no spare. If you start adding up all of the weight those items removed I guess it makes sense. One thing for sure I think the vast majority of these trucks weigh well under 4000 lbs even when loaded with factory steel and cast parts.

[EvanSchraub]

Originally Posted by djgebert

You know I am sitting here looking at those weights and what my truck weighed in at and it had me confused why mine would be so much lighter. But when I started to think about it more it all makes sense. When I weighed my truck it had no PS, no PB, no AC, Aluminum heads and intake, headers, aluminum driveshaft, aluminum radiator, no heater core, fiberglass roll pan instead of bumper, aluminum wheels and no spare. If you start adding up all of the weight those items removed I guess it makes sense. One thing for sure I think the vast majority of these trucks weigh well under 4000 lbs even when loaded with factory steel and cast parts.

I recently put a new ac in mine and was Surat how much there was too it as far as the brackets stuff it reall surprised me that it would weigh as much as it did

[ka_jd7and1]

I had the 290hp crate in my '68 longbed with 3 speed manual trans, 3.73 rear gears and a 29" tall tire. Truck ran fine, kept up with highway traffic and had enough power to do what I needed it to.

The only reason I took it out is I was hard up for money and sold it.

I would say, if you're willing to put it in as-is, then keep it.

If you would plan on putting new heads, cam, etc, I would do one of two things. Send it back and order the right complete engine for you the first time, without having to do more work to it, or order a short block and pick the rest of the components you want.

[Lee H]

Just for reference, My 72 C10, short fleet, 350/350, PS, PB, AC, spare, half tank of gas came in at 3,710 on a fresh fame off restoration. My 65 Corvette roadster came in at 3,146. Couple of fat chicks difference.

[RUN GMC]

Originally Posted by Lee H

Just for reference, My 72 C10, short fleet, 350/350, PS, PB, AC, spare, half tank of gas came in at 3,710 on a fresh fame off restoration. My 65 Corvette roadster came in at 3,146. Couple of fat chicks difference.

Nope he just likes them really really fat..................

[Lattimer]

My shortbed fleetside weighed 3940 on the truck scale at work. Scale has a 20 lb resolution and gets calibrated every 6 months.

Thats PS, PB, aftermarket AC, iron head Vortec 350, Tremec TKO 600, steel bumpers, 3/4 tank of gas, 80's factory rallyes, spare in the bed, and a tool kit in the cab...LOL.

[Coley]

Originally Posted by Lattimer

My shortbed fleetside weighed 3940 on the truck scale at work. Scale has a 20 lb resolution and gets calibrated every 6 months.

Thats PS, PB, aftermarket AC, iron head Vortec 350, Tremec TKO 600, steel bumpers, 3/4 tank of gas, 80's factory rallyes, spare in the bed, and a tool kit in the cab...LOL.

That sounds about right.
I've had 2 long bed 1/2 tons that I paid a lot of attention to from a weight/GVW standpoint and I did the same 'weight check' thing over at the commercial scales quite a few times.
One was a leaf spring/Heavy half and the other was a trailing arm regular 1/2 ton (my current blue one in the avatar pic).
The 'H.Duty' leaf spring truck was slightly lighter than the trailing arm truck...which makes sense...less steel there for sure with those trailing arms.
That said both of these 1/2 ton/long bed trucks were very at or slightly above the 4000lb mark....without me in them.
Both of these trucks had the following options: V-8/SBC, ps, pb, auto, a-c, tilt, dual exhaust, deluxe trim and rear bumpers.
Once you add in even the basic options it starts to pile up the weight...eg: V-8, ps, pb, auto, bumper, radio, deluxe trim/gauges, auxiliary gas tank, dual exhaust.....they all chunk it on and it easily turns into several hundred pounds.
That said, its always good to know exactly what your own truck weighs, that way if you decide to carry or pull a load you know what you are up against.
I remember being kind of 'bummed out' that legally my truck couldn't actually take too much load before its GVW rating was exceeded (5000lbs and 5400lbs) until I realized this was due more to the poor tire quality of the era being the weak link in that era's rating system rather than the truck itself.
....anywhooo, a little off topic from the original threads Crate Engine theme but thought I'd throw the info out there anyways.
all Good
Coley

[Lattimer]

Oh, and for comparison my 2012 Tundra Crewmax 4x4 weighed 6400 on the same scale.

Big difference there, but the Tundra is a lot bigger truck and 4x4.

[1972BlueC20]

"Vortec heads also require an external coolant bypass line which was extremely annoying to plumb and keep heater core functional at same timeortec heads also require an external coolant bypass line which was extremely annoying to plumb and keep heater core functional at same time"

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

"Vortec heads also require an external coolant bypass line which was extremely annoying to plumb and keep heater core functional at same timeortec heads also require an external coolant bypass line which was extremely annoying to plumb and keep heater core functional at same time"

No clue what he is talking about. My new engine plumbed in the same as my old one. Hose from manifold to heater core, then hose from heater core to temp valve, then hose from temp valve to water pump.

[1972BlueC20]

Ok cool.

What's the temperature valve for?

Should I have one of these?

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

Ok cool.

What's the temperature valve for?

Should I have one of these?

Thats what controls hot/cold on your heater. You should have one in the heater return hose

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by Lattimer

Thats what controls hot/cold on your heater. You should have one in the heater return hose

I don't have any kind of heater temp valve. The lines are just straight from intake to core, and from core to waterpump.

[geezer#99]

I think you're going in the wrong direction with your motor choice 1972Blue.
You were worried about your choice of the 290 hp motor and now you're jumping deeper into the fire with even more motor.
You've got a big tall tire heavy truck that needs all the torque you can find. Buying more hp moves the hp/torque curve way up the ladder. Right out of your desired driving area.
It'll be a dog until it hits 3000 rpm.
You need a stock motor with some upgrades. Like this one.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/sear...g&autoview=SKU
Add a high flow performer intake, a small 600 cfm carb, a set of small tube (1 5/8") headers and you'll be far happier.
You'll set the tune on your motor and only need to look at it to check the oil.
The high horse motor will need constant attention. You'll be continuously tweaking the carb, checking the timing etc.
Forget the bling bling high horse motors, go stock.
Unless you enjoy tinkering all the time!

[1972BlueC20]

So I'll be happier with a 195 hp 350 tq engine over a 330 hp 380 tq engine?

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

I think you're going in the wrong direction with your motor choice 1972Blue.
You were worried about your choice of the 290 hp motor and now you're jumping deeper into the fire with even more motor.
You've got a big tall tire heavy truck that needs all the torque you can find. Buying more hp moves the hp/torque curve way up the ladder. Right out of your desired driving area.
It'll be a dog until it hits 3000 rpm.
You need a stock motor with some upgrades. Like this one.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/sear...g&autoview=SKU
Add a high flow performer intake, a small 600 cfm carb, a set of small tube (1 5/8") headers and you'll be far happier.
You'll set the tune on your motor and only need to look at it to check the oil.
The high horse motor will need constant attention. You'll be continuously tweaking the carb, checking the timing etc.
Forget the bling bling high horse motors, go stock.
Unless you enjoy tinkering all the time!

Actually, the vortec head engines make begin making torque pretty low, and have a broad flat curve if done correctly.

Stock is NEVER a good answer to anything.....LOL

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by Lattimer

Actually, the vortec head engines make begin making torque pretty low, and have a broad flat curve if done correctly.

Stock is NEVER a good answer to anything.....LOL

That's what my mechanic said. I asked him about just buying the cheap engine and he said why go through all this $$$ and trouble just to get a stock engine.

Keep in mind, he doesn't make any more money on the install regardless of whether I buy the vortec engine or the base engine.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Lattimer

Actually, the vortec head engines make begin making torque pretty low, and have a broad flat curve if done correctly.

Stock is NEVER a good answer to anything.....LOL

X2!