1947 Panel Truck Frame swap with ’88 k2500

[Purcell69]

Originally Posted by Second Series

I like how the front tires don’t stick out of the fenders, they are just inside. I may be able to run wheels with a greater positive offset to suck the tires in. The fan and fan clutch are being greedy in the core support area. We’ll get the grill and support panel mocked up and see how a radiator will fit.

I think you'll find you're at the limit of what you'll find for wheel offset. I ran in to the same issue with Ethyl. The 1994 Dodge 4wd front axle was wider than i had considered and with stock Dodge rims and 235/85R16 tires, they are just past the fender openings on my 1957. After checking with various vendors, the only way to get anymore offset would be custom made wheels, which would cost a small fortune and only net an additional 5/8" of inward tuck. Not worth it in my book.

I think yours fit quite well, definitely better than mine. I say go with it.

-Joe

[joedoh]

I hope you find some wheels that are higher offset, those stockers are already pretty high offset!

looking great !

[nvrdone]

how about trying front fenders from one of the "big" AD"s like a 3500(?). I hear they are about 3" wider each side over a 3100 fender.

[Second Series]

Thanks for the comments and feedback. I had the radiator mounted in front of the core support with the ’54 235, It should fit there with this 5.7. I may have a new radiator modified or built. There are a few issues with the radiator that I will look at. 3 core vs. 4 core. Vertical flow vs. crossflow. Location of the upper and lower ports. Copper vs. Aluminum regarding Galvanic reaction with the engine.

I would like to keep everything stock, or as much as possible on the body, and the drivetrain. There is already a lot of headscratching going on to figure things out. Moving the engine, or moving the steering gear would cause dominoe effects. That adds to the cost of the project, and this work is being done in a shop so I need to keep the focus on the big picture.

I found a couple vendors that offer wheels with vintage looking hub caps, I may go that route, of get the clips and use my original hubcaps, but I will be driving this before that happens.

I saw that Chevrolet did a frame swap a couple years ago. They widened the front fenders. I have considered it. The bigger truck fenders is another option too, I believe the hood would also be part of that swap since the rear lower corners of the hood are different on those. I am real happy with where the wheels sit now, so I’ll leave it at that.

Things are moving along. The shop owner has his son’s working since one is a Barber and can’t work otherwise. I’m glad I can help support the economy during these trying times. The front sheet metal is being fitted. Time to get everything mocked up, so I delivered some parts last week. Awhile ago I picked up a new GM steering column from someone who gave up on a jeep project. While I was looking for similar builds, I saw on Old57’s build that he used Kugel Komponents Brake bracket. I called them and ordered separate Brake and Clutch brackets since they didn’t offer a separate clutch bracket. I need the clearance for the stock brake booster. Ordered on Tuesday, arrived on Thursday, Wow! I also went to the parts yard and cut a fuel filler door panel out of a Nissan, that was fun…

I have been keeping busy figuring out a way to keep the stock speedometer. It just might work. I have a motor mounted to the back of the speedometer, and am developing code to make it work, so far so good.

[Second Series]

The grill is almost fitted. Some creative design for the core support. My idea was to use the stock radiator until I get a custom radiator built. Doesn’t look like it will fit in there now… I got some seats from a Chevy Astro. Mocking up the steering column, pedals, and seat.

[olcarguy]

It's coming along...Be ready before you know it.

[Rickysnickers]

Those brake/clutch pedals look great. Please post some photos when you mount them.

[Second Series]

The steering column is in as well as the Brake and Clutch assemblies. We used a section from the donor steering column to join the GM column to the donor shaft, needed about 4”. We also took the hole from the donor firewall. The pedal assemblies are in place. Still need to put in the donor gas pedal, and the foot starter bracket. The gas tank has been repositioned a little forward and a little down for clearance issues. The fuel filler door is in place. It looks like the battery will sit under the passenger seat. The original location was under the passenger floor, but with the wider frame that won’t work. There is an access cover under the seat, the battery can be lowered in and rotated to sit towards the outside. The exhaust runs through that area, but there’s enough room for a battery. The other option is to have the battery high on the inner fender, under the seat is a cleaner option.

[Second Series]

The fuel filler door, looks like they had a hell of a time with that. It is what it is. We now have a bracket for the brake lever. Still working on the bracket for the foot starter linkage. The foot starter linkage will not include the arm that attached to the starter. It will just be the foot pedal and the curved bracket that it is attached to, and will mount on the body to actuate a momentary button. The plan is to have that done by next week and remove the body from the chassis to finish the welds on the body mount brackets.

[Second Series]

I have been working on the radiator issue. The stearing gear interferes now, and I am running the stock ’88 fan and fan clutch. I looked at using the original radiator shifted up or out at the bottom, there just isn’t room to go up much. I looked at using the ’88 radiator, I even tried a ’70 camaro radiator for fit as I read that might work. There are brackets behind the front grill that restrict that area. I drew up some plans and went to the radiator shop for feedback. They suggested I go with a modified downflow, mock it up in cardboard for fit. So that is what I did. My builder changed the core support bracket to accommodate a radiator. I drew up some final plans and am ready to go back to the radiator shop to have a custom radiator made. I will use the stock ‘50’s top tank (20”) and have the bottom tank cut down to just under 18”. There is a band on each side of the core, so the max width will be 18” with the core just under that. 25” tall with the frame and core support being different from stock there is room to go lower. We’ll use 2-row dimpled core, so I’m hoping it will be thin enough to not have to cut into the latch panel much. The top tank will be offset to the rear. I had been running a 235 inline six with the stock radiator mounted to the front of the core support, so there is about a 1 ½” cut out in the latch panel. The radiator should look right when in place. I’ll ask if we can fit in an oil cooler in the 2”x 18” gap.

[joedoh]

s10 swap guys run into the same radiator/steering box clearance issue and buy a 19x22 3 core from speedway. a word of advice, the lower hose connection points INWARD toward the crank pulley, some cut it off and turn it so it points OUTWARD toward the inner fender. in the past I used a 19x21 I found on ebay with a trans cooler in it and a straight lower hose connector.

looking good!

[Second Series]

The body is back off the frame, Body mounts are being welded on. The rear runningboard bracket conflicts with the spring perch. I collected the bed wood. I’ll glue up the cracks, clean it up, and finnish. The wood is in pretty good condition considering the age.
I had created a spreadsheet of parts early on for the build. I started with a Jim Carter catalog. Went page by page, adding to my spreadsheet whatever I thought was needed. The list is in no particular order, so it’s kind of jumbled, but it works. I then went through an LMC catalog since I had one in hand. Classic parts website next. I have a list of each part with the price difference. I found most of the parts from these three suppliers, but there are some things that I had to search for. LMC has some good generic options that I couldn’t find at JC, or CP, like aftermarket seatbelts. I added Ecklers, they have specific parts I couldn’t find elsewhere, such as hood hinge bolts. I’m adding a door lock to the drivers side and since I already have a left hand housing, I just needed the key cylinder. Chevs of the 40s has the left door lock assembly for 1941-1948 cars. I found just the cylinder at autopartsobsolete for $20 less than the whole assembly. I’m adding rear lights from a ’39 sedan. I found about 3 different makes from several vendors. Olddogstreetrods had the ones for me, but they did not include the gasket. I found the gasket at the Filling Station, they had some other interesting parts. I got a hood side emblem from them. At this point I wasn’t going through my entire spreadsheet to compare all the prices, just select pieces. ClassicPartusa has the doorlock gasket, and spring for the rear door lock rod. Simple little things, maybe I’m not looking in the right place, but I couldn’t find those parts elsewhere. I also read about an alternative part for the rear door bumper from 80/20 Inc. I had read about Steele Rubber, so they are on the list. I’m going to really have to want their product since the prices a quite a bit higher. I placed an order from Jim Carter, and Classic Parts awhile ago. Last week I decided to get more stuff, so I placed orders with Ecklers, Chevsofthe40s, and Filling Station. Now that the frame has been worked out it’s on to the bodywork, prep for paint. I may be getting ahead of myself, but I don’t want to wait for some parts that I could have ready to go.

[Second Series]

The frame is painted, next step is put the engine back on and reconnect the exhaust, and set up the parking brake cable. We’ll swap the left and right rear brake cables and locate the ends near the middle on a bracket. They will connect to the lever mounted to the right of the transmission. Painting the firewall and under body so the body can go back for the last time. We’ll jack the body up to reinstall the bedwood at some point after the bedrails have been painted. Meanwhile I have been working on the speedometer drive, and refurbishing the speedometer. The bedwood is in pretty good condition, so I’m reworking that.

[docrock]

Great Project. I fit a 54 to a 93 chassis. Lots of things to think about. Small projects each day and the next thing you know you are driving it around

[Second Series]

Thanks Docrock. I just read through your build, inspiring. I'm curious how you mounted the battery, do you have any pictures of that?

[docrock]

I made a battery box out of sheet metal. Then I cut into the top of the inner fender. Dropped the box in and welded around it. Sorry no pics. Inside the wheel well you see the bottom of the battery box but it doesn't hit. There is a lot of room

[Second Series]

I decided to refurbish my old bed wood. The edge pieces are still black, the middle pieces are worn and cracked.

[Second Series]

I decided to use wood glue to repair the cracks. A small front edge piece came out in Three pieces.

[Old57]

Nice progress, coming along good. Good choice on the pedals, I'm really happy with them in mine.

[Second Series]

Thanks Old57, I saw the pedal in your build and thought it looked beefier than other options, and at a good price.
I brought the Beast home last week, placed in a tent and began checking things out.
I moved the boxes of old parts out and started surveying things. I’ll make a list of what and when to do.
I finally heard back from the Radiator shop with an estimate so I’ll be getting the radiator soon. I’ll be able to test fit it myself. They will tack the brackets on, if it fits well, I’ll have them finish it. I took the driveshaft to get it extended 4 ½ inches. Progress continues.
I had refaced my speedometer, but discovered the high beam indicator lens was deteriorated. I found a refresh kit, so had to wait a week for that. After reassembly, the display would not read above 20MPH. I tore it apart again and discovered the spindle was independent of the speedcup. I glued the spindle and tried again. It took forever to get to top speed, and seemed to hang high before dropping. I tore into it again and found the speedcup binding. I removed the superglue, shimmed the speedcup and glued the spindle again, and again I didn’t get the orientation of the speedcup to stop correct. It didn’t rest firmly at 0. It was also binding again. I found that I could get just enough wiggle room to get clearance. I was able to loosen the screws of the speedcup assembly and spindle bracket and shift it enough to work. Once there was free movement, I looked at the stop tab. The speedcup tab was just past the stop tab, so I rotated it around and past the stop tab. I had to bend the stop tab up and then back to get the tab on the speedcup past. This put one revolution of tension on the spring. Now it didn’t read full scale, couldn’t overcome the spring tension. I tried to put it back and in the process of bending the stop tab, the tab broke off. I let the speedcup in it’s relaxed state, preset the spring by about 20 degrees, and glued a piece of wire as a stop. Upon reassembly, the old needle had a visible fracture, it broke. $8 and a week to wait, I glued the needle, and reassmebled. Now this old speedometer is working smooth and quiet.

[Second Series]

I got a call from the radiator shop. I went to get my custom radiator for a test fit, they helped me load it into my pickup, and I asked if they wanted some money. He said I’d be back to have them attach the brackets and paint it. It is a pleasure doing business with someone who believes in the honor system. Although he was surprised when I returned later that same day with the position of the brackets already figured out. The fab shop left a brace tacked to the front of the core support that needed to go, so I needed to come up with an upper core support. I cut a length of hat channel from a bed cross sill that was removed. Fired up the ol’ Oxy Acetylene rig and had at it. I don’t have much time welding, but it came out o.k. except for one blow through. I’ll finish those welds later, probably remove the core support for that. I did weld the lumber rack that is on my pickup with Oxy Acetylene and it’s holding up so far. The custom radiator fits well, the sheet metal won’t need to be altered. The latch panel had been previously cut to accommodate the old radiator mounted to the forward of the core support. This new radiator does stick up a bit, I may be able to lower it alittle, but I’m happy as it is.

[Second Series]

Progress is slow, but steady. I’m lucky to get 2 hours a week in on this. I noticed the rear shock brackets need to be moved back. The axle bumps and spare tire hanger need to be moved back also. The passenger side shock bracket is mounted to the frame where the frame transitions from wide to narrow. The bracket will need to be narrowed to move it back. I cut a V out of the bracket and welded back together. The driver side shock bracket is rear of the axle, so it won’t need to be modified. I will need to modify a cross brace though. I’ve removed the axle bumps, the other shock bracket, and the spare hanger. Once I got in there and started removing things, it looks fairly straight forward what needs to be done. Fortunately I am able to pull up the bed wood to gain access from above.

[Second Series]

Progess is slow, but continues. I got the drivers side rear shock relocated, and the axle bumps moved back too. I’ll use a piece of the old bed cross sill for the spare tire hanger. I’ve been looking at the Brake and Clutch master cylinders. The rod that connects to the pedals is not right for this application. The stock ’88 units have a long rod with eye on the end. The aftermarket pedal assemblies don’t have enough room for the length of those rods. I wanted to keep as much stock as possible, and keep the 10 ½” Brake booster. I see many use the cpp masters, I may go that route for the clutch. I need units with a short threaded connecting rod. I did find that the Nissan Quest uses a 10 ½” booster with short threaded rod, but haven’t looked if it would play nice with the GM master cylinder. I’m also looking at the drivers side door jamb. The door contacts to opening at the top front first. I’ll need to bend a hinge, bend the door out, or bend the door jamb in. I have some dimentions from the assembly manual and am devising a way to measure if the door jamb is out of spec. I have also been working on the speedometer drive. I will be using the original speedometer with this modern drivetrain, so I have connected a motor to the speedometer. I finally hooked it up to a ’90 chevy truck and tested it out, here's a link to a video I made:
https://youtu.be/K6YOm1WTpqg

[6DoF]

i really like the use of the original wood!

i'm a little worried about how steep of an angle that shock is at, it's really disadvantaged vs the axle travel.

[Second Series]

Thanks 6Dof, I was fortunate to be able to salvage the bedwood as it was protected being inside the panel truck all these years. I based the shock mount location off of my ’90 chevy truck, but didn’t check the angle, I don’t know why it would change, but I’ll have a look. The driver side shock is even steeper. I read about how the two are mounted at different angles.