Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram

[jd74c-10]

i have a 77 d-200 dodge with a 440 and i think i like your's better. go to the local pick-a-part and look for a early 80's dodge van they have a small brake booster that should bolt right in. they are half the size of the stock truck unit

[383Ram]

Thanks, not to many Mopar guys are happy with me. I have nothing against Chysler motors either---its all i really know to be honest. But i can't give the truck up and Chevy stuff is generally cheaper and plentiful. Plus i am at a time in my life where i dont care what others think, for god sakes its all the same metal when it gets melted down.

On another note, i do like the design aspects of a big block chevy over the small block, but obviously they cost more to build.

On the brake booster, i am going to do one of two things. Ether try and raise it up a hair or get the smaller booster for it. Right now i kinda stopped as this week i am working on our 1920 model T pickup--its stock, slow, and cool.

[jd74c-10]

yeah ,hell with what other people say . i once put a 327 and power glide in my 1970 dodge dart swinger. everyone gave me hell until i waked away from them at the street light. that thing was fast as hell . thats what makes cars fun doing whatever you want. i like all cars and find they will all run strong when done right. the nastest one i ever drove was a 68 L-88 vette but i have had 400 pontiac's that would run 140 mph all day long.also had a 70 429 torino that was unreal . hell they are all fun. have fun with you truck . paint the engine orange, it has to be it's a chevy.

[383Ram]

Picked up another 454 last night. This one will have the cheap rering/bearing rebuild done to it and slammed in to get the truck running. The one being used for mockup needs a complete rebuild and full maching.

Anyways, some peliminary teardown looks like this may have been rebuilt once, but is still standard bore. Unfortunatly some water did get in--why people store motors outside i'll never know, but i think i can ball hone the light surface rust out of the couple of cylinders its in---its mostly up top past the rings. The heads didnt fare as well (peanut ports), they had all the rockers backed off but some water sat in the intake ports. I have my own valve and seat regrinding equipment so i can probably salvage them. This is an EGR motor so i am guessing it has to be after '75, my guess is early 80's buy the plastic oil cap and lower pulley that has 2 v-belts grooves and one serp belt groove on it. It was a carbed motor. EDIT: Its an 1985 carbed truck motor by the numbers.

So now i am on the search for some cheap rebuild parts, i'll finish tearing the shortblock apart and take it to work and use the super-sonic, blast-o-mighty powerwasher we have, LOL. The smaller parts i will put in our smaller hot tank to get clean.

[383Ram]

Unfortunatly, no new updates right now. We have been working on our 1925 Ford Model T getting it running. The second 454 i bought is all cleaned and bagged, ready to start the the super cheap 454 rebuild---as soon as i get some time and parts. Everything looks nice after the cleaning, so i am hoping soon i can start something on it.

I was in the middle of mounting the P/S pump, that is almost figured out, i will post the adventures and pics of that soon. I think i am going to be able to use my stock Chrysler saginaw pump with the stock big block brakets with very minimal mods. Stay tuned...

[jd74c-10]

put the extra rat motor in the 25 ford

[383Ram]

Ha, when i tell people we own a Model T, they instantly think hotrod T. While i am certianly not a purists by anymeans, the T stays as true to stock as i can keep it. Besides, have you ever seen a real T chassis? The fact the people used too (maybe still do) cut and weld to even put a small block chevy or ford in is crazy. If i ever thought about building any type of hot rod T, it would have a full 2x3" box rail tubing in it, not the cheesy factory 1.5x2.5" c-channel.

Anyways, no progress this coming weekend, going out of state for a car show i have never been too. More updates will follow as time allows, but unfortunatly winter is coming and all the outside BS needs to get done around the house before it gets too cold.

[jgh64pkup]

be sure and post some pics from the show

[383Ram]

Well, a bit ago, i purchased a set of P/S brackets and single groove pulley off of Egag. I had decided since my pump was good and already a saginaw pump (same as the stock big block chevy pump), that i would use it. This so far has been an act of fustration that i still haven't got figured out.

First off, while maybe obvious to others, i had to figure out how this stuff went on. Some help on the net (here in fact) helped with that. Then came mounting the top bracket to the pump. Problem two is that the newer pumps are not designed anything like the older pumps. This neccesitated adding washers to space the bracket out from the pump. Then i had to swap a stud in the back from one hole to another. Ok, now where ready to bolt it up---err, maybe.

Mounting the pump i realized the older pump must also be thicker in width than the newer style ones, so now i have to take up play in there somehow too, while maintaning belt alignment. I also have realized the lower pump bracket is not allowing the pump to sit square to the engine---and i thought this was going to be easy, LOL.

So right about now i am thinking i need to make my own upper bracket so i can shed the spacers and washers, and i may have to tweak or maybe even slice and dice the bottom bracket to get the pump to sit straght on the motor. I have been using some paint sticks across the tops of the pulleys to check for straightness, the sight right down in the grooves of the pulleys and work well.

And to answer any questions or shall i say the obvious question, no i dont have the original style GM pump to go with this motor. on to the pics...


Power steering brackets needed for big block long waterpump.



My mounting so far

[jb1016]

Originally Posted by 68C15

any chance you can throw in some Ford stuff?

Yeah, it needs a 9" rear to be a true three-way abomination. Just kidding -- awesome project, and a sharp-looking truck.

[383Ram]

Originally Posted by jb1016

Yeah, it needs a 9" rear to be a true three-way abomination. Just kidding -- awesome project, and a sharp-looking truck.

Yea maybe so, then i can run some AMC badges on it.

Actually, if i can do what i want to, i am going to sell the GM truck MY6 833 overdrive trans and bellhousing, and put a Chrysler 833 overdrive trans in with an adapter plate on a Lakewood GM bellhousing. I already have a thinner adapter plate i can use as the template from another project, it just needs to be thicker to act as a spacer on this one. Thus the only thing GM would be the engine at that point. I just need to find where i planted that money tree......

[383Ram]

This power steering pump is kicking my A$$ trying to get it lined up. I think i have it now, but in my opinion, i think i am better off making my own top bracket. I probably should have just gotton the right pump, but man anything big block is like buying something for a corvette---expensive. Plus i am unsure if the stock Dodge line would work in the original pump anyhow. I guess the next step is to get some 3/16" plate and make my own upper bracket.

[383Ram]

I finally procured some 3/16 steel and had time to carve my own upper bracket. Now i can use my Saginaw Metric pump on this engine. I still may have some line up issues, but they are ALOT better now. Here is the pic of the stock bracket on top and mine on the bottom. They look similar, but on mine, one leg is set back behind the bracket and one is foward of it, where the stock bracket has both going foward---i had to use alot of shims on the stock one.

[Old Yeller 1970]

Nice Job.

[383Ram]

Thanks.

Next up on the list, change everything.

I made a decision in the beginning to try and run an HEI. Of course to do that, engine placement was compromised a little. Well, its just not going to fly with the big block. I am going to have to use a smaller distrubutor and move the engine back and rework my chassis mounts.

I also have worked in the Chrysler 833 manual 4-speed trans, so i have no issues with speedo hook up, driveshaft hook up or any of that fun stuff. So that GM 833 (MY06) overdrive 4-speed trans and bellhousing will be for sale, i just need to get a Chevy blowproof bellhousing first.

I am painting the garage---still, so maybe tommorow i can get back on it and do some work while i am off this week---stay tuned.

[383Ram]

OK, redid the motormount brackets to set the engine back some. My machine shop guy gave me a points distrib and i bought a cap so i could mock it up. Its still real close to the plug towers, but i think i have everything where it needs to be now.

Now i have to deal with the valve covers. I need to keep power brakes, but i would like to have the room to run the tall valve covers. We'll see what i can come up with on that.

[383Ram]

OK, a little update. Moving the engine back made my tall valve covers touch the brake booster. Dodge used a smaller brake booster on 3/4 & 1 ton trucks---as well as 440 trucks. Mine being an '85 required using a 3/4 ton booster as there are no big blocks for this year. While the small booster is better, i thought there was some roome for improvement. Here are the pics of the mods i did to move my small brake booster up about another 1/2" or so.

First step is to slot the bolt holes and the main center hole upward. You can only go so far on the bolt holes due to where the nuts are on the inside--they hit the bottom of the cowl. I actually raised the center hole a little too far, but the gasket still seals it fine.



I installed the booster, installed the top nuts to snug and backed off about a turn. I then pushed it up and tightened the top nuts (no easy feat to do under the dash with two hands). In this pic, you can see how much higher the studs now sit.



To make sure the move stays there, and to facilitate easier replacement in the future, i first place washers on the bottom studs only. I then tacked the washers to the firewall. I removed the booster and tacked them a few more times. I ground the surface of the washer flat again, reinstalled the booster and tightened all 4 nuts.



Like i said before, it was a minimal gain and it took some time to do, but i'll take that extra approx 1/2" gain away from the valve cover---on top of what i gained using the small booster--which was about an 1".

[383Ram]

Also of news, i got a killer deal on a new sfi 454 flywheel from summit with some discounts i had coming. It is drilled for multiple patterns for clutches and is billit steel. So i am slowly getting closer piece by piece---i am basically stuck untill after the holidays now.

[Old Yeller 1970]

Good job. How about a photo of the brake booster installed?

[Scootin 81 C20]

WOW, this is an interesting build to say the least.

Normally I would be extremely irritated at somebody doing this, but for some odd reason, I'm not. I am a HUGE Mopar fan and have owned a few old Dodge trucks (a 1979, a 1983, and a 1987) and they are great trucks as are Chevrolet's square body's. I'm actually looking forward to seeing this finished.

[383Ram]

Scootin', i know what you mean. I am a big Mopar guy, but always like to tinker---and i flat out like all cars. I am not biased in the least so this doesnt bother me at all. I actually had this thought to do this in my DartSport (dodge version of a Duster), years ago, and then also a small block mopar into a Nova. Always been intriuged by off beat swaps, but never did it.

The original plan a few years back on this truck was to put a TPI small block in it, but then i found out that setup is pretty limited in capacity. And to me, if your going to do a swap like this, it better put out something (kinda like the hot girl you really want but at the end of the night she better scream, LOL).

I was fine and halfway there with a 383 deal, then a long weekend selling at a swap meet put a bug in me and i was fourtunate enough to get into these big blocks fairly cheap. The other part i really like about this swap, is it could be all put back to stock pretty easily. The only major mod i mod to the the whole truck was to notch the top of the frame rails for header clearance. The booster mod would have probably been done if i ran a Mopar big block, because they run into the same clearance issue. I made everything else bolt in, the engine stands on the frame are bolt in and use the pre-existing mopar mounting holes. The only other major mod i am going to do, is to notch the front crossmember for some better clearance around the oil pan. It fits just fine as is, but you would have to pull the engine to get it off---no way to do it in the truck.

I will still try and get pics of the completed booster set up, but as of now, i am in a parts collection stage to put the motor together. I cant do any work on the truck itself because it is residing outside (did i mention it has only been inthe 20's here---i think winter is finally here) due to a tub job i just started on a friends car. That should take me to about Feb or so i figure before i can bring the truck back into the garage. Gotta make the sacrifices to earn the money to play, LOL.

[383Ram]

OK, pics of the brake booster done

First is what i was dealing with, the picture is deceiving, because the valve cover had about a sheet of paper clearance between it and the booster.



Second is what i had after the work slotting the holes and switching to the smaller booster from a 1 ton truck. Yea, thats some snow on the cowl of the truck---god it almost kills me to have to put this outside for most of the winter, but a paying job in the garage is worth it.

[383Ram]

Sorry guys, no relevant news as i am working on tubbing a friends car in my garage. Hoping it'll be only another month and it'll be done and gone. But i get the feeling it will be more like 2 months with the extra work he wants done.

Anyhow, still gathering parts. I pickup a used MSD pro billet non vacum advance distributor for $80 at a swap meet a week ago. I can not fit an HEI in the truck, so the plan is to use the MSD and wire it to the stock Chrysler electronic ignition. Super dependable ignition. The mopar stock distrib is a two wire electronic pickup deal just like the MSD so i see no problems doing this--it even used the same color wires on the MSD.

Hopefully the Tub job in the garage now will pay to do a cheapie rering job and other misc parts to put my engine back together--as well as my wifes 318 for her Duster as that is apart too. Then maybe i can get both vehicles running again.

[383Ram]

Only new relavent news is my machinest modified my Chrysler roller pilot bearing holders to fit in the end of a Chevy crank (these go where the torque converter hub usually rides).

And the otherday, i dropped off the piece of 3/4" thick aluminum plate (to make my transmission adapter) for him to bore the hole for the front bearing retainer on the transmission--then i can drill and tap the rest of the holes to finish the trans adapter. Then all i have to do is get a Lakewood bellhousing at the swapmeet in April and i am almost there and done with the drivetrain part of this. I think all i need left to get is a 11" pressure plate and the correct 4-speed manual trans driveshaft for the truck---i made that part easy by putting the stock Chrysler trans in the stock spot. Then i can sell the GM MY06 overdrive trans and bellhousing and recoupe some dollars from that.

The tub job on the Charger in the garage isnt going as fast as i want it too, but i need to get it done soon, and i have to get a 360 Mopar built for someone else too, so i have alot on my plate. Just thought i'd give a quick update.

[383Ram]

I got my aluminum plate back from my machinest, he bore the center hole that registers the transmission in place (this is the same large hole that is on any bellhousing). Today i managed to get the trans mountinmg holes drilled and tapped for it. Once i locate a blowproof bellhousing, i can finish the adapter attachment holes and trim it all down to size.




The slow progress is still due to the Charger i am tubbing, that is moving along, just not very fast. However, i did manage to get the major componets mocked up and rolled it outside so i could clean the garage. Obviously only being mocked up, its all got to come back apart for finish welding and painting.