Zinc In Oil

[GSP7]

Chevron Delo LE 15-40- Zinc .13, phosphorus .12

Chevron Delo Multigrade(non LE) Zinc.15, phosphorus .14

Valvoline VR1 zinc .13-14, phos .12-13

Brad Penn zinc .15 phos .14

[Marv D]

Spend the time to read this

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/

this guys blog puts some facts and figures to the ZDDP debate with certified Blackstone testing Lab reslts. Pretty interesting. A long, LONG read.. but worth the time. You have to get down about 30% into the page to where he lists 190 different oils, (but only a portion have been tested)

The entire read is worth EVERY second of the time it takes... but remember... like everything this is just one mans opinion like everything else we read on the internet. The fact that he backs it up with testing from a lab like Blackstone,,, puts a LOT of credibility to it.

What will surprise you most is the 'Snake Oil' some of the big name companies sell you as ZDDP boosting break-in additives that actually make the oil LESS effective at protecting high pressure wear points! Scroll down to oil # 180 and above to see what happens, but again, the data means a whole lot more if you read the reasoning that goes with the scientific testing.

[cableguy0]

At this point I wouldn't even dare run a flat tappet cam in anything. I would just save a few more dollars and go roller. There are virtually no down sides to using a roller cam except cost but you get a lot of bang for your buck. A roller cam will make more power. It will run smoother and idle better. Its easier on the valve train overall. By the time you figure out the expense of using special oils and additives on top of the stress of worrying about doing a proper break in and then hoping nothing stupid happens it just not worth using a flat tappet anymore. Cam failure trashes the engine and to me its not worth the risk.

[cableguy0]

Originally Posted by Marv D

Spend the time to read this

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/

this guys blog puts some facts and figures to the ZDDP debate with certified Blackstone testing Lab reslts. Pretty interesting. A long, LONG read.. but worth the time. You have to get down about 30% into the page to where he lists 190 different oils, (but only a portion have been tested)

The entire read is worth EVERY second of the time it takes... but remember... like everything this is just one mans opinion like everything else we read on the internet. The fact that he backs it up with testing from a lab like Blackstone,,, puts a LOT of credibility to it.

What will surprise you most is the 'Snake Oil' some of the big name companies sell you as ZDDP boosting break-in additives that actually make the oil LESS effective at protecting high pressure wear points! Scroll down to oil # 180 and above to see what happens, but again, the data means a whole lot more if you read the reasoning that goes with the scientific testing.

That's a great article and as I have time I will read it completely. The first few pages of info are excellent and the guy seems to know what he is talking about without question. His test methods seem solid as well and everything he is saying makes sense.

[GRX]

Been a while since I have read that page. Good info. This part below is very significant. Too many over load their new rebuild in an attempt to prevent wear and are actually contributing to their own demise.

"4. This from the Brad Penn Oil Company:
There is such a thing as too much ZDDP. ZDDP is surface aggressive, and too much can be a detriment. ZDDP fights for the surface, blocking other additive performance. Acids generated due to excessive ZDDP contact will “tie-up” detergents thus encouraging corrosive wear. ZDDP effectiveness plateaus, more does NOT translate into more protection. Only so much is utilized. We don’t need to saturate our oil with ZDDP."

[storm9c1]

I agree!

Also the EPA doesn't care about the classic or antique vehicle market. They only care about current vehicles only. That being said, in my state, a vehicle registered as either a classic or antique does not require emissions testing. This tells me that I should be allowed to run any oil I want (even offroad oil). The older, less efficient cat converters (ie: pre-90s) are possibly more tolerant to zinc. So I wouldn't mind running an offroad oil in those -- if it contains a good additive package. But also keep in mind that racing oils do not have the same long-term viability as over-the-counter oils. Racing oils are usually meant for extreme conditions over a short period of time. They are not designed to sit in a crankcase for a year or more over a few joyrides.

I'm not sure what the ideal solution is here except to use the oils that scored well in that article posted above and be careful to match the oil to your driving habits and intentions for the vehicle. There is no one-size-fits-all.

I'm lucky to have a brand new case of 25 year-old Havoline laying around that I still use on my flat tappet cars. I put low miles on my flat tappet cars, so it should last a while. After that is gone, I'm hoping there are still some decent alternatives out there. All future purchases/builds/rebuilds will have a roller cam. Period.

[ReeceB]

I do believe that 540Rat post has been posted around the internet about 1000 times now, it has also been picked a part and should be taken with a pinch of salt...do some googling.

Mobil 1 have this posted on their website https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...guide-2016.pdf

The 5w40 diesel oil has a ton of zinc and phosphorus.... Choosing oil is a mind field these days.

This is also worth a read;
http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/rote...essing-188168/

[GSP7]

Originally Posted by Marv D

Spend the time to read this

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/

this guys blog puts some facts and figures to the ZDDP debate with certified Blackstone testing Lab reslts. Pretty interesting. A long, LONG read.. but worth the time. You have to get down about 30% into the page to where he lists 190 different oils, (but only a portion have been tested)

The entire read is worth EVERY second of the time it takes... but remember... like everything this is just one mans opinion like everything else we read on the internet. The fact that he backs it up with testing from a lab like Blackstone,,, puts a LOT of credibility to it.

What will surprise you most is the 'Snake Oil' some of the big name companies sell you as ZDDP boosting break-in additives that actually make the oil LESS effective at protecting high pressure wear points! Scroll down to oil # 180 and above to see what happens, but again, the data means a whole lot more if you read the reasoning that goes with the scientific testing.

I would not put much stock in that 540rat's blog. There is alot of people on the internet that aren't oil engineers and dont know what they are talking about and tests that aren't accurate and false infomation

[storm9c1]

This issue comes up over and over. While 540rat's blog has some interesting scientific data, it should NOT be the end-all-be-all source of information on this subject. In fact, I have not found any source on this subject that is comprehensive and 100% scientifically accurate. So the best thing to do is use a variety of sources and add some common sense.

Common sense tells me that there are newer additives that are in many high quality name brand oils that take the place of ZDDP, perform the same function, and offer good protection (ie: moly).

The one concern that goes against common sense is adding your own additives to the oil to make up for missing ZDDP. It seems reasonable to do so. But... one thing that seems common across several blogs on this subject is that too much ZDDP is just as bad as not enough. I have also been told this by professionals in the industry. And most sources claim that additive packages work together, so adding your own can disrupt or conflict with existing additive packages.

One thing we know, the EPA demands lower ZDDP levels due to damage to catalytic converters. This is a fact. But leaves a big hole in the classic and antique car market since the EPA isn't concerned with this space. And neither are oil manufacturers to a large extent. Their lack of concern either tells me that it's too small of a market for them to bother with OR they believe this is all a bunch of hogwash since they make up for missing ZDDP with other additives. Or somewhere in between.

That being said, I have no idea what the right solution is here. There will be lots of opinions. A few oil companies have stepped in and addressed this issue directly. But their wording is not one of promise. Here is an example from Mobile:

https://mobiloil.com/en/faq/ask-our-...r-classic-cars

The key phrase here is "could benefit your flat tappet engine" but makes no promises. Until we get promises from oil companies (which will never happen due to our litigious society), I think this issue will continue to be debated by professionals, novices and amateurs alike ad nauseum.

The only sure course of action is to have a new case of 25 year old oil around. And/or keep an eye on the big manufacturers to see how (or if) they continue to address this. I'm hoping that one day a professional in the oil industry comes out with a 100% factual statement on this subject and settles it once and for all.

[Marv D]

Dead on Storm. People should read the data and form their OWN opinion, not the rhetoric of "a guy I know, read a post by some other guy, on a forum I heard about, saying he knew a guy that disagreed". The internet is FULL of experts and parrots. The one thing Rat540 does is list data from actual Blackstone Labs reports,,, not what someone told him, or what someone else's opinion is.. Thats why there is a LOT of missing brands and weights. It's all on his own nickle, no one is buying his reports, and he's not selling you anything. The data is there for us to form our own inturpretation. Each should do that.

As far as what happened.. it was a prick named Michael Leavitt that was director of EPA under Bush, he came right out and said... We have to get rid of all of these old, inefficient, polluting cars. He caused the change in oils (both passenger and diesel). In an interview he once stated, 'These cars should be off the US highways. So changes in oil that hastens their demise is a good thing for the environment and the American economy" (meaning we should junk every car pre 1990s car and buy a new factory fresh 'efficient, non polluting' POS)

He wasn't the only one to make it hard to keep old technology alive, but was one that dealt classic car enthusiast the biggest blow and did the most damage.

[GSP7]

Good info right there, API ratings and content