1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"

[daveshilling]

While I wait on more parts from Flat Out, I've been trying to keep busy with the truck in some way.

MY FIRST TIME DOING METAL WORK

I found a body hammer in a bunch of tools I bought, and also a tooth from an excavator bucket... so I figured what the heck, I have a pretty crunchy fender. Let's learn some body work!

Those of you who actually know what you're doing may just want to hit the back button right now. I just decided to experiment, have fun, and maybe have a slightly better looking fender.

MY FIRST PATCH PANEL

I also decided I would try and make a patch panel from some sheet metal and it was HARD! Definitely fun to do. I welded it in but the tacks didnt penetrate well......

so I grinded them all off and took my welder off the auto setting, brought the voltage up, wire feed down, and welded the panel from the back this time. MUCH better and I'll follow up with more pictures.

[joedoh]

great work on the patch!

[daveshilling]

Originally Posted by joedoh

great work on the patch!

Thanks! I will definitely need to body work the panel, but thats okay with me, plenty of learning opportunity. This corner of the fender seems to curve inward, and I haven't really figured out how to resolve that yet..

[BIGglaSS]

Heck , yeah. That's how I started, you're on the right track.

[daveshilling]

Originally Posted by BIGglaSS

Heck , yeah. That's how I started, you're on the right track.

Sometimes just getting your hands dirty and getting those first few mistakes over with can go a long way!

[daveshilling]

rewelding the panel helped, but grinding is hard for me to do well on these panels... I cant tell when I've ground the weld level, too far, not far enough.. and getting too agressive is leaving some marks, both with the grinder and hammer.

I can see why guys would just coat the whole damn thing with filler, this is a skill acquired through hours and hours of practice.

[dsraven]

you may try the flap discs for the grinding down part.
sometimes a piece of plywood or mdf cut to the correct contour for the panel is good to have for this type of thing when starting out. that way you can double check as you go to ensure it isn't too bent or not bent enough etc. sheet metal pattern would also work I suppose, whatever you have lots of.
I recommend to cut the hole, then cut the patch to fit big and bent it to shape, then slip it in behind the original spot and mark it fit the shape of the hole. then cut it so there is a bit of a gap between the parts, then tack it in place, checking the contour with your pattern as you go. walk away to allow the whole panel to cool off. come back and spot a few welds between the original ones, like midway. walk away again. each time you come back check to ensure the panel is room temp again. that way it minimizes the warpage. when done use a flap disc to level out the weld, they work on a flatter surface than the usual grinding disc that is made to work on it's edge. again, slowly so things don't heat up and warp. a quick dusting of primer will show you the high spots when you touch it with the disc.
it's always good to have a few other small projects going on when doing this so you are not tempted to go back and "burn it in". less time cussing later when doing the sheet metal prep and bodywork.
what you have there looks pretty good though. some hammer and dolly work and you will be done. if you have a little "innie" dent that has minimal room behind it for a dolly, try to make it an "outie" dent so it is out where you can work it. then use some heat on the high spots (some guys even use a laundry iron because it only touches the high spots) and a wet rag to cool it right after. just enough heat to make the wet area steam, not like cherry red or turning blue or anything like that.
there is a few videos from wray schelin that show using a shrinking disc. same theory, different method. heat the high spot then cool with a damp rag.

[mikebte]

Not to bad, I wouldn't kick it. I may take on your design as I start repairing rust on my own ride.

[58 pache]

Great build so far. I also live in roseville.
Been debating on the c4 or full IFS lately myself. not alot of vette parts in the norcal area.

[daveshilling]

Got the IFS parts cleaned up and mocked up one more time with the fender to make sure it looked good, then I went ahead and burned in the crossmember.




Now I'm on the hunt for a CTS V or F-Body oil pan setup... if anyone has one they'd like to sell, I'm interested! Hoping to buy used and save a few bucks since a used oil pan should perform as well as a new one. If I cant find one in decent time, I'll just order a takeoff from eBay.



I ordered some universal mounts From LSX Innovations HERE after seeing an artice where they were able to get the mount onto the crossmember using a slotted plate. I could have probable made these, but the water cut pieces are clean, precise, and already done.

[daveshilling]

Originally Posted by dsraven

you may try the flap discs for the grinding down part.
sometimes a piece of plywood or mdf cut to the correct contour for the panel is good to have for this type of thing when starting out. that way you can double check as you go to ensure it isn't too bent or not bent enough etc. sheet metal pattern would also work I suppose, whatever you have lots of.
I recommend to cut the hole, then cut the patch to fit big and bent it to shape, then slip it in behind the original spot and mark it fit the shape of the hole. then cut it so there is a bit of a gap between the parts, then tack it in place, checking the contour with your pattern as you go. walk away to allow the whole panel to cool off. come back and spot a few welds between the original ones, like midway. walk away again. each time you come back check to ensure the panel is room temp again. that way it minimizes the warpage. when done use a flap disc to level out the weld, they work on a flatter surface than the usual grinding disc that is made to work on it's edge. again, slowly so things don't heat up and warp. a quick dusting of primer will show you the high spots when you touch it with the disc.
it's always good to have a few other small projects going on when doing this so you are not tempted to go back and "burn it in". less time cussing later when doing the sheet metal prep and bodywork.
what you have there looks pretty good though. some hammer and dolly work and you will be done. if you have a little "innie" dent that has minimal room behind it for a dolly, try to make it an "outie" dent so it is out where you can work it. then use some heat on the high spots (some guys even use a laundry iron because it only touches the high spots) and a wet rag to cool it right after. just enough heat to make the wet area steam, not like cherry red or turning blue or anything like that.
there is a few videos from wray schelin that show using a shrinking disc. same theory, different method. heat the high spot then cool with a damp rag.

Excellent tips, thank you sir!

Originally Posted by mikebte

Not to bad, I wouldn't kick it. I may take on your design as I start repairing rust on my own ride.

Feel free! I dont think I'm doing anything worth copying quite yet, but definitely just start getting after it and make some mistakes, its fun!

Originally Posted by 58 pache

Great build so far. I also live in roseville.
Been debating on the c4 or full IFS lately myself. not alot of vette parts in the norcal area.

I have a 84-87 setup for sale since I had to switch to the later year due to a mixup with the crossmember that was shipped to me... You're welcome to stop by the house and check it out and get the forum member price 916-304-2145

[daveshilling]

Well I've been apprehensive about welding on the coilover upper mounts, fearing that the coilovers might touch the frame. I should actually order some coilovers, perhaps, so I can check (:

Has anyone used something else besides the Aldan American coilovers that FlatOut sells?

In order to not lose any momentum, I'm trying to stay busy with the truck no matter whats happening. I decided it was time to inspect this $1000 LS engine/tranny that I got, and so far, I'm getting what I paid for:



This filthy disaster was missing a proper intake manifold gasket and instead had red silicone in its place. Abhorrent.

I cleaned it up to get it ready for a replacement manifold since this one was damaged, and a Fel-Pro gasket. I pulled the valley cover while I was at it, and will replace that gasket as well, since I'm already there, and it's cheap insurance to just do it now.

[daveshilling]

Updates:

I found a replacement Intake Manifold complete with rails, cable TB, injectors, etc. for $40. It also has the original gasket, so reusing that will save me $50 and pay for the manifold essentially.

I swapped out the truck pan for a CTS-V pan, and although that hurt the pocketbook, it fits like a dream. The windage tray is the same full length tray as the 5.3 so at least I saved a couple bucks there.

[daveshilling]

I've been bugging you fine gentlemen on other threads for specific issues and I appreciate the help with getting the mounting location sorted out. I discovered that a light trimming of the trans tunnel top lip allowed me to hit 3 degrees, clear the vette rack, and get the engine tucked in close and low.

I left some of the recessed lip and mounting hole so I can easily attach the trans tunnel cover once modified, and I'll clean that up with a grinder once the engine is out again. It only needed some of the unseen sheet metal trimmed, which I'm very happy about.

[daveshilling]

I've also gotten some Trailblazer SS manifolds to help with mounting /steering. Since I'm new to truck building, I wanted all the help I could get in this category. I made a comparison of what the Truck vs. TBSS manifolds look like, side by side.

You can really see in the last image that there is CONSIDERABLY MORE room for steering linkage using the TBSS manifolds. This may even prevent me from needing an additional guide bearing.

TBSS Manifolds used on a TF 1959 apache with a Flatout Engineering C4 crossmember (to help with searching).

[Roadkill58]

Looking good! Once you get the steering column in place it will become clear what you need to do.

It looks like you won't have any problems.

.

[daveshilling]

Originally Posted by Roadkill58

Looking good! Once you get the steering column in place it will become clear what you need to do.

It looks like you won't have any problems.

.

So I've been looking for a keyless 70's GM tilt automatic steering column with no luck.

I dont mind keeping the factory column for Lucky the Trucky if I can get it to shift the 4L60e smoothly...can anybody who has acheived this chime in with some advice/tips? The Jackalope used the factory column and frankly it shifts like crap.

[FleetsideBill]

Question did you move you cross member back from flat out directions?
27 1/2 didn't work for me

[daveshilling]

Originally Posted by FleetsideBill

Question did you move you cross member back from flat out directions?
27 1/2 didn't work for me

Yes, I did, to 28.75" I believe, since it appears that FlatOut based their directions on a 55.2-57 which has a shorter front.

[Nut Case]

Looking grand, strong work. How did you establish ride height for the C-4 front and rear suspension? I'll be using the C-4 suspension as soon as I can get my 57 GMC build off perma-hold.

Thanks in advance

NC

[58 pache]

Making some good progress. Nice work on the tbss manifolds.
I was gonna hit you up on the C4. But the wife got let go from her job. It's so weird that 5 yrs ago i sold my 67 cutlass and that money was going into the 58 and she lost her job the next day. It's a conspiracy I tell ya!

[daveshilling]

Originally Posted by Nut Case

Looking grand, strong work. How did you establish ride height for the C-4 front and rear suspension? I'll be using the C-4 suspension as soon as I can get my 57 GMC build off perma-hold.

Thanks in advance

NC

I measured the frame distance to ground front to back and made sure the back was about 2" higher only for the purposes of leveling the crossmember.

The Flatout kit seems to have a fixed ride height unless you modify the frame. Something tells me I'll wish it was lower when it's all finished, but I intended to use this for truck things, so it's probably for the best.

[daveshilling]

Originally Posted by 58 pache

Making some good progress. Nice work on the tbss manifolds.
I was gonna hit you up on the C4. But the wife got let go from her job. It's so weird that 5 yrs ago i sold my 67 cutlass and that money was going into the 58 and she lost her job the next day. It's a conspiracy I tell ya!

It happens! Yes these manifolds are awesome, and certainly going to simplify the steering setup.

[daveshilling]

Well it's been a bit over a year and I'm definitely nowhere near as far along as I'd hoped. Not even close, actually.

Over the holiday I finally decided on some mounts and ordered Randy Ellis's tubular mount setup. For $50 + shipping it was not too much more than buying the materials myself. I got the frame portion welded in and then cleaned up and primered all the bare steel since it was starting to get a bit of surface rust.





Not bad for a guy who has never built a truck before and has maybe 5 feet of welding under his belt, I think. Progress seems to come in spurts... nothing happens for a month, then one weekend I spend 12 hours in the garage.


While keeping busy since I'm not sure what the next step is without having more parts, I decided to clean up the dash area and get it ready for wiring and PCM mount. I learned this cool detail that the factory ignition has a little light bulb that shoots light through the hole where the key goes. Very cool.



Anyone know how to remove these ignitions, and can I get a key made?

[G&R's57GMC]

If I remember there is a pin hole in the key side of the switch that you would insert a paper clip wren in the lock position and then turn the key counter clockwise to release the lock cylinder. But you need the key to do this !

Then the bezel can be unscrewed and the switch can be removed.

Your option is to call a mobile locksmith and have a key made on site .
Be sure to tell them you need a key blank for the 50’s GM ignition . BTW if your lucky it will match the door lock